OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: More of the same

[Richard]

When will you guys learn. I admire and pity the diehard Pirates baseball fan. The first ticket I buy agsin for the Pirated will be for the world series...

 

[Winger for Hire]

And I believe I read somewhere that Jason "Welcome to Hell" Kendall is in the mix for the KC job.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Gerrit Cole on the mound for the Astros trying to take a 2-0 ALCS lead tonight, in case you want to remember to feel bad about being a Pirates fan.

Apparently Rosenthal (edit: apparently it's Ken Davidoff from the NYP... I skipped by the last name) came out with a story today confirming that the Pirates ask from NYY was Frazier + Andujar, which seemed like common knowledge to me, but likely the story is for Yankees fans who just lost in large part because they don't have pitching, and are going to move Sonny Gray in the offseason. They made the right call in keeping Andujar, obviously, and I think it's reasonable to say that Huntington was right to be stubborn over him specifically, since Frazier is a giant question mark. The Cole trade remains a pretty big swing and miss, unless Moran really finds another few gears to his game. Musgrove makes it somewhat palatable and not a total loss, but clearly not the best use of assets, which has been probably the major problem with the team since 2015, IMO, effected both by mismanagement and bad luck.

Gray is an intriguing buy low candidate, but unless we planned on moving Nova, I don't think it is really much of a fit. We should be focused entirely on offense, and if Keller forces the issue at some point, figure out a plan then. Nova probably has some depth value at the deadline, which is around the earliest I'd expect to see Keller anyways. Barring injury, we need to at most worry about maybe some supplemental bullpen help. The pitching overall keeps us a decent bet to finish with a similar kind of record; whether we can find the wins on top of that on offense is to my mind the sole question of the offseason (a multi-faceted one, given that internal decisions have to be firmly made on this front as well).

 

[Winger for Hire]

I never knew I wanted anything as much as I want this hire to happen.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Stros need to win tonight.

Last thing I want to see is another Sox title.

Actually wouldnt mind the Brewers winning it all. They are a rival, but if that doesnt get our FO off their asses nothing will. They go out and get Cain and Yelich and they are tied up at 2 in the NLCS.

We even have better pitching. Better rotation and pen. No reason for the FO to not be aggressive like the Brewers were last offseason for offense.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I was listening to 93.7 and it sounds like the 3rd base platoon next year will be Moran and Kang. It doesn't look like they're bringing in a 3B, they're fine with gambling on Kang and Moran being a good enough tandem. I honestly don't blame them, Kang has the potential to be better than a ton of free agents and he's cheaper than a lot of guys too.

Something I wasn't sure about, in the years Kang didn't have his Visa and wasn't able to play in the states, did his contract count for that year?

 

[Winger for Hire]

Something I wasn't sure about, in the years Kang didn't have his Visa and wasn't able to play in the states, did his contract count for that year?

Yes.

They didn't have to pay him (was placed on the Exempt List or whatever the technical listing was), but the contract ran a year off.

 

[turd]

I can’t believe Erik Kratz is a starting catcher for a team playing in the league championship series. Boggles the mind.

I’m sure most teams have former players on playoff rosters, but does it seem like there are a ton of former Pirates players in this postseason?

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I can’t believe Erik Kratz is a starting catcher for a team playing in the league championship series. Boggles the mind.

I’m sure most teams have former players on playoff rosters, but does it seem like there are a ton of former Pirates players in this postseason?

Yes there are. Ones you wouldnt expect are Kratz like you said..and Holt/Pearce for the Sox.

Then you got the pitching for the Stros. Cole already blowing a game(first time allowing 5 runs all year). Morton down 3-2 so far tonight.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I was listening to 93.7 and it sounds like the 3rd base platoon next year will be Moran and Kang. It doesn't look like they're bringing in a 3B, they're fine with gambling on Kang and Moran being a good enough tandem. I honestly don't blame them, Kang has the potential to be better than a ton of free agents and he's cheaper than a lot of guys too.

Something I wasn't sure about, in the years Kang didn't have his Visa and wasn't able to play in the states, did his contract count for that year?

Im fine with them starting the year off with that and see where it goes. Should still be adding another IF with power tho. And an OF to replace Polanco. Supposedly the Dbacks are looking to trade some players. Could mean they might not re-sign Pollack...we should.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I wonder if a possible trade target who might be a good middle infield rebound candidate is Tim Beckham from the Orioles? They somehow have a relatively decent roster crunch, and are obviously in full rebuild mode, so will be on the lookout for longer term assets. I don't really know a whole lot about Beckham as a player, but his 2017 numbers look pretty good and he had an injury-plagued season last year.

I continue to like Escobar among all the options, but Beckham might be a good gamble as a stopgap option, and depending on what's happening with Newman and Tucker, he can easily become a utility IF. Not a lot of risk, can't imagine that the pricetag would be too high. Maybe starting with somebody like Holmes and then adding a lower-minors player with some bigger upside if things pan out. Or even someone like Escobar as a headliner, which more efficiently clears roster space for upside from the Orioles perspective.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Trade everything for Puig I want to watch more of him. So much fun and passion.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Dodgers been so close for so long now..this better be their year. Dont give Boston another title. That would be 11 total since 2001..we are in 2nd with 5 lol.

Pats lost last year..another loss would be nice

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I wonder if a possible trade target who might be a good middle infield rebound candidate is Tim Beckham from the Orioles? They somehow have a relatively decent roster crunch, and are obviously in full rebuild mode, so will be on the lookout for longer term assets. I don't really know a whole lot about Beckham as a player, but his 2017 numbers look pretty good and he had an injury-plagued season last year.

I continue to like Escobar among all the options, but Beckham might be a good gamble as a stopgap option, and depending on what's happening with Newman and Tucker, he can easily become a utility IF. Not a lot of risk, can't imagine that the pricetag would be too high. Maybe starting with somebody like Holmes and then adding a lower-minors player with some bigger upside if things pan out. Or even someone like Escobar as a headliner, which more efficiently clears roster space for upside from the Orioles perspective.

Yeah i was mentioning Escobar all the way up until the deadline. And he was had for cheap. We really missed on that one. Dont know if he will sign for what we could afford tho...likely looking to cash in.

He was coming off a one year deal...we need to find someone like that..who is looking to bounce back...prove it type deal. There were plenty this past season.

Or just do what the Brewers did and go all in. Why not..with the pitching we have right now and all those guys needing to get paid eventually.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Why the hell would you burn Kershaw with 4 run lead in the 9th?

 

[TNT87]

I'm pulling for LA because I despise Boston fans no matter what sport.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Yeah i was mentioning Escobar all the way up until the deadline. And he was had for cheap. We really missed on that one. Dont know if he will sign for what we could afford tho...likely looking to cash in.

He was coming off a one year deal...we need to find someone like that..who is looking to bounce back...prove it type deal. There were plenty this past season.

Or just do what the Brewers did and go all in. Why not..with the pitching we have right now and all those guys needing to get paid eventually.

I don't think Escobar will get too crazy of a deal but you never really know. Beckham stood out to me as someone who could be a bounce back guy, and the Orioles probably don't have a ton of incentive to keep him, though they could just as well hope that his value rebounds to get more in a trade. But still, we seem to have a decent relationship with them, and we have the kind of prospect depth to pull off a more middle tier deal like that.

Stearns and the Brewers deserve a massive amount of credit. Obviously the Yelich deal gets a lot of hype, but as I recall they took a lot of flak for paying Cain what they did. I liked the move then, and it looks better now. Cain will decline, but if he gives them one more year like this and another good one, then the contract is totally worth it. The thing is, I don't know if they'll really be able to procure the kind of pitching they could use to get to another level, though obviously Counsel made do with unconventional means.

One thing that's kind of interesting is that playoff pitching has more and more gone in an RP direction, whereas the Pirates' strength lies with their starting pitching, even as there are question marks in terms of front-end starters after Taillon. Having said that, I still look at the WS teams and see elite starting pitching and some quality depth options, so maybe it reflects playoff management more than anything else--and obviously we have little reason to trust Hurdle if it ever becomes a relevant question.

In any case, it's going to take some outside the box thinking no matter what this offseason, but Huntngton has to be reckless if it comes to it. I am hopeful that a new pitching coach can do some good for Bell, and maybe that Moran finds an additional gear, but he has to make one or two moves that can move the needle offensively. Having starting pitching which approximates what we had post-ASB is an absolute bedrock in terms of avoiding the kind of slides that cost last year's team it's chance to be relevant as things dwindled down, but we still have the kind of offense that might lead to that.

I don't think a guy like Escobar or Beckham solves the matter completely, but two offensive improvements and a bit of luck with Polanco's health should mitigate that weakness quite a bit, and I think position us to be more towards the upper realm of where we're capable on paper. It's the extra 5-10 wins that I'm very skeptical about, even in the best case scenario this offseason. Not much else to do but hope for an exciting WS and wait and see how things shake out, but I think at the top of the list of priorities should also be a way to try and squeeze more intra-divisional wins out next year. We had some abysmal series vs the NL East and West which can't happen again, and overall played well in many division games, but it's hard not to encode series losses with the Cardinals with a lot of meaning. Maybe what that means is that backtracking to the series we lost and continued falling while they ascended would mean that we held on to have our hopes crushed in the final two weeks of the season, but at the end of the day, that's better than a thoroughly mediocre 81-81 squad.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Escobar, 3 yrs $7m per to stay with Zona

 

[Empoleon8771]

Escobar, 3 yrs $7m per to stay with Zona

That's way cheaper than what I expected him to get, that's disappointing. One less option for the Pirates, he was definitely in their price range.

I can't wait to see a SS tandem of Newman/Mercer again next year.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Sounded like he really wanted to stay in Arizona.

And if that's the price that got him, he must really like the... ummm... sand?

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Yeah, that's a bargain for sure. Part of what sucks about having limited options like we always do is that sometimes even just bad luck screws you over. There's not a whole lot of difference between our playoff chances and theirs over that span, but if he was a good fit and liked it there, good for him I guess.

Definitely some retrospective reason to be more skeptical at NH's inaction on that front. It didn't take a huge offer to trade for him, so we could have been in that mix. But last year was fraught on many levels, starting with the fact that the only reason we were even in the deadline mix was that crazy winning streak.

We need more stability and targeted improvement in some areas. Escobar alone doesn't make or break that, but it's now that much harder to find the targeted improvement we need.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Offseason daydream...

Trade for Puig and sign Machado. Offense looks a lot better and team would be ten fold more fun to watch.

And before anyone asks, I have not been drinking.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Dodgers will never win a WS again.

Would rather see the Brewers facing the Sox

 

[Winger for Hire]

Dodgers will never win a WS again.

Certainly not if they keep relying on Madson in high pressure mid inning situations.

 

[TNT87]

Certainly not if they keep relying on Madson in high pressure mid inning situations.

Terrible decision by Roberts.