OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Misusing Your Bullpen 101 with Clint Hurdle

[Xavier Laflamme*]

That reaction. Jordy was hyped.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

So happy I went to the bar to watch the 11th.

 

[sniugneP]

Just woke up and found out we won because Cutch's late 2 homers. Awesome!

This is most frustrating week for Bucs. We could have been 5-1 on road trip but we actually gain 2 games despite we're 2-4. Cards and Brew are now first place. No way we will gain a game today.

LOL at Gomez!

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Amidst all the frustration, BS, dumb coaching decisions, etc., it's always nice to remember that we have Andrew McCutchen and nobody else does.

 

[nobuddy]

I am still in utter awe of what we saw last night.

 

[td_ice]

I told you guys the Brewers luck was bound to run out sooner than later

Good call.

 

[cheesedanish87]

That was a fun game to watch last night, thought it was kind of a lucky win though, Pirates most likely don't win if Chapman is available.

A couple moves i'd like to see the Pirates make is to bring Mazzaro back up, i would take Mazzaro over a few guys who are in the bullpen right now, i'd also bring Andy Oliver up and give him a shot, Oliver's walks are high, but hes only aloud 24 hits in 46 innings.


https://twitter.com/Ken_Laird/status/488359767606579200

Neal Huntington on his bullpen: "So good a year ago, unfortunately it seems like each guy has had a tough stretch. We're looking..."


https://twitter.com/Ken_Laird/status/488365396643561472

Clint Hurdle on starting Liriano again Friday after AllStar break: "Liriano is a big key for us. We need to find out as soon as we can..."

I took that quote from Hurdle as we have to find out if we need to trade for a starting pitcher.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Reds now know not to run on Polanco's arm.

 

[nobuddy]

Uh oh.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Liriano is trash. Wish him and Frieri would leave and never come back.

Cutch was lucky to get a triple there, he was dogging it down to first. If I had any criticisms of him as a player, it would be that he doesn't usually go hard out of the box.

 

[cheesedanish87]

perfect time for a rain delay, its not an official game if it keeps on raining, and if they do play the rest of the game Cueto will probably be done.

 

[sniugneP]

Matheny chose Cutch over Gomez for CF position in All Star game. He said he chose him because he's more experience plus he's a MVP player.

 

[djt153]

gomez is a much better defensive player than cutch and i love cutch/hate gomez

 

[cheesedanish87]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer...ing-huston-street-pirates-others-in-early-mix


I'm happy Pirates are at least looking at Street, as far as realistic trades go i think Street can really help the Pirates as much as anybody who is out there.

Steet would give the Pirates 4 solid relievers, he could turn there bullpen from a weakness to one of the teams strengths.

 

[sniugneP]

Yeah, he would upgrade our bullpen. I think it would take 2 prospects for him.



Cutch will bat lead-off and Gomez will bat 9th for All Star game. Matheny really hate this guy.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

As everyone should.

 

[sniugneP]

Josh Bell just promoted to Altoona.

 

[nobuddy]

 

[Gooch]

I don't want them to do any buying. This is virtually the same bullpen that was tops in the league last year, you can't really predict how this stuff is going to go. You can bring over an arm but there is no guarantee that he's going to perform worth a damn, so why on earth give some meaty prospects for them? Huston Street (who I like) is just going to be too damn expensive for the risk and worth he'd provide.

It's like people continuously forget what size market this team is in. We can't do what bigger market teams do. The prospects are our absolute lifeline, not in the sense that we can spend them on rentals but we NEED them for their cheap deals and years of control that has them performing better than a journeyman.

I see on different message boards people saying that they want the Pirates trading for a starter.... I just don't freaking get these people. We have a log jam of starters that have all performed admirably well for the most part. Worley has been moved to the bullpen when in all likelihood his performance is as good or better than any starter we'd be able to get in a trade, so why on earth would we waste assets on that?

We probably have solutions in house for the bullpen issue, or we can just simply wait and the guys who are performing like hot garbage now could revert back to their superior status of last year.

I love this team but I absolutely hate each year around this time where impatient fans come out of the woodworks demanding that the team screw up what has made this team finally competitive again.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I don't want them to do any buying. This is virtually the same bullpen that was tops in the league last year, you can't really predict how this stuff is going to go. You can bring over an arm but there is no guarantee that he's going to perform worth a damn, so why on earth give some meaty prospects for them? Huston Street (who I like) is just going to be too damn expensive for the risk and worth he'd provide.

It's like people continuously forget what size market this team is in. We can't do what bigger market teams do. The prospects are our absolute lifeline, not in the sense that we can spend them on rentals but we NEED them for their cheap deals and years of control that has them performing better than a journeyman.

I see on different message boards people saying that they want the Pirates trading for a starter.... I just don't freaking get these people. We have a log jam of starters that have all performed admirably well for the most part. Worley has been moved to the bullpen when in all likelihood his performance is as good or better than any starter we'd be able to get in a trade, so why on earth would we waste assets on that?

We probably have solutions in house for the bullpen issue, or we can just simply wait and the guys who are performing like hot garbage now could revert back to their superior status of last year.

I love this team but I absolutely hate each year around this time where impatient fans come out of the woodworks demanding that the team screw up what has made this team finally competitive again.

This bullpen is completely different then last year, the only thing similar is Melancon and Watson performances, the rest of the bullpen are different players who aren't very good or the same players as last year that have taken a step back this year.


I don't understand the argument about bigger market teams when it comes to Street, Grilli made 4.25 million as the pirates closer, Street is a little more expansive at 7 million, if the pirates got Street they would be paying him about 3 million for the rest of the year, that's not that much money, even for a small market team like the Pirates.

Pirates lead MLB in blown saves this year, i feel very confident in saying if the Pirates had a guy like Street to start the year they would be in 1st place right now.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I have no problems with us being buyers, at a reasonable price. Our system is so deep at most positions that we have the ability to move a piece or 2 and still be rated very highly by anyone who knows MLB farm systems. The problem is this is and pretty much always will be a sellers market. Street would be a tremendous player to get, but his price will be to high. Unless we can get him for 1 mid level prospect, it's simply not worth it. I'd move a declined Luis Heredia or someone equivalent for him, but i highly doubt that is a winning bid come the end of the month. Somebody will overpay.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I was looking at last years trade deadline trying to find somebody who got traded that is comparable to Street, the closest i found was Francisco Rodriguez, at the time that Krod got traded to Baltimore last year he had a 1.09 era with a 1.05 whip.

Krod got traded for Nick Delmonico, i don't know anything about Delmonico, but after doing a quick google search it doesn't look like hes anything special.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I don't want them to do any buying. This is virtually the same bullpen that was tops in the league last year, you can't really predict how this stuff is going to go. You can bring over an arm but there is no guarantee that he's going to perform worth a damn, so why on earth give some meaty prospects for them? Huston Street (who I like) is just going to be too damn expensive for the risk and worth he'd provide.

It's like people continuously forget what size market this team is in. We can't do what bigger market teams do. The prospects are our absolute lifeline, not in the sense that we can spend them on rentals but we NEED them for their cheap deals and years of control that has them performing better than a journeyman.

I see on different message boards people saying that they want the Pirates trading for a starter.... I just don't freaking get these people. We have a log jam of starters that have all performed admirably well for the most part. Worley has been moved to the bullpen when in all likelihood his performance is as good or better than any starter we'd be able to get in a trade, so why on earth would we waste assets on that?

We probably have solutions in house for the bullpen issue, or we can just simply wait and the guys who are performing like hot garbage now could revert back to their superior status of last year.

I love this team but I absolutely hate each year around this time where impatient fans come out of the woodworks demanding that the team screw up what has made this team finally competitive again.

Amen, brother.

I'm less impatient about the Street stuff than just about all of the other rumors, I think he's a fantastic closer who could vastly improve our bullpen for years to come. You're talking about a reliever who's in his 10th season who's never had an ERA above 3.86...which came as a Rockie...

It'll be a bidding war, though, and I'm not prepared to part with a top prospect for a reliever. Never. A package of lesser ones, sure, but once we're talking higher than a Harold Ramirez I'm out.

The starter stuff...just say no unless it's a young guy. I don't want us to give up assets for an older guy who's not going to give us anything better than what we're currently getting from that end-of-the-rotation glut right now.

I was looking at last years trade deadline trying to find somebody who got traded that is comparable to Street, the closest i found was Francisco Rodriguez, at the time that Krod got traded to Baltimore last year he had a 1.09 era with a 1.05 whip.

Krod got traded for Nick Delmonico, i don't know anything about Delmonico, but after doing a quick google search it doesn't look like hes anything special.

Delmonico was the Orioles 5th rated prospect. He's got loads of potential, but he's yet to break out and he hasn't shown much improvement since being drafted at all...so it may remain nothing more than potential. Street does have more value than K-Rod, namely because he has a team option. K-Rod was also coming off a pretty bad 2012 season and hadn't played the closer role since being traded from the Mets at the 2011 deadline, as well. Of course he's shown how wildly things can change with relievers this year, as he's been a dominant closer again for the first time since he was making all of the money with the Mets.

The Brewers are lucky they got K-Rod back via free agency because that trade looks like a dud right now. Delmonico was rated outside of the Brewers Top 10 prospects by just about everyone before this season and the Brewers have just about the worst farm system in baseball.

 

[ImporterExporter]

How do we fix the future at 3B? 1B? They are black holes, especially at 1B considering what is at the ML level right now and the lack of options on the farm.

Do we realistically have a chance at bringing Martin back? He's going to get 15M a year over 3-4 years on the open market.

Cole and Martin are the only sure fire starters as of now, locked up past this year. Locke and Worley still have too small a sample size to be counted on yet for next year. Kingham will likely be on the only ML ready guy who's in the minors now. Liriano is such crap right now he'd be cheap, but again, he's not worth keeping around, even on a few million. Volquez is pitching his way to a nice raise, which we can't afford.

Outside of Hansen, who is still another year away from ML service, we have no impact middle IF prospects who are close.

Our studs are almost universally in the rotation, OF, and C. We have a big surplus at each position, although, with SP you can never have enough.

We obviously aren't signing anyone of note in FA, ever. We don't have the money to compete in bidding wars and quite frankly you rarely get the appropriate value from FA signings. The only other options are to trade established veterans for areas of need in youth or trade prospects of surplus for prospects of need (example, OF for 3B/1B)

I don't subscribe that this team will take some sort of mythical leap forward next year, since we've been competitive for a few seasons now. The roster could potentially, and likely will have major holes, moreso than we had last year/this year from opening day.

I would project (without trades and FA):

Morton
Cole
Locke
Worley
Minor League player

-Not exactly a rotation that inspires thoughts of contenders and WS champions.

Polanco
Marte
Cutch
Walker
Davis
Pedro
Catcher
Mercer

-If Martin is back, it's a nice enough lineup, even with the garbage production from 1B and up and down play of Pedro. I advocated last year that we start shopping Pedro and that was met with blasphemy. Now a year later, most people are on board. His value long term is nil. He won't re-sign here and quite frankly seems destined to be an AL DH given his struggles at 3B. Or 1B.

We need Russell back, period. I don't like the idea of paying over 30 players good money, but he's worth so much to this team. It's easy to see the difference when he's not in the lineup. Nutting is going to have to increase payroll, one way or another. Not much but it has to be more than a nickle/dime. We have Polanco to lock up long term. Cutch will need a new contract soon and he'll command over 20M per easy.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I don't think Worley will be in next years rotation, i'm actually expecting Worley to get moved once Cole comes back this year.

I think next years rotation will be
Cole
Morton
Locke
Young Guy/ probably Kingham
Another project similar to Volquez

Then you will hopefully have Taillon at some point next year.

Cutch will be gone when his contract is up, i think you can take that one to the bank.