GDT: RAGNARÖKR CLAN SKOGVAKTARE @ CLAN STORMNING AKA GAME 7 NEW YORK RANGERS @ CAROLINA HURRICANES

[moses malone 12]

Big bowl of meh for me about that.

Oh the East was tough? Who f***ing cares. For the 2nd year in a row we finished the season with a Top 3 record and don't even make it out of the 2nd round. I don't care that the rest of the conference was good, outside of Florida, we consistently showed we were better than the rest of this conference. And it didn't matter. I wouldn't be as pissed off about this if we put up a great fight each year only to be bested by a team that played better, but that's just not been the case. Against Nashville, Tampa, Boston, and now New York, we consistently killed ourselves with horribly lazy play, unbelievably stupid penalties, a defense that is far more leaky than its reputation says it should be, and an entire offensive attack that goes ice cold.

Last night getting shelled and dog walked out of our own house in Game 7 against a team we have absolutely no business getting spanked by should absolutely be a tipping point that drives some serious change to the makeup of this team going forward. What we are doing in the playoffs does not work. Playing our game in the playoffs does not work. The status quo is not working.

And yet I don't have any faith in the front office to actually address these issues that have legitimately been present for 4 years now. We'll make a few 'buy low' moves, let guys like Trocheck and Neiderriter go to chase a higher salary. We'll wait til all the top end free agents are off the board and then we'll pick up the best of the table scraps after the fact, and then we'll go into next year, play the first 3 months of the season like the playoffs start in October, burn ourselves out by March and shit ourselves in May. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Last night reminded of what Ferland brought to this team in his short tenure. Scared the sh*t out of the opposition. when he destroyed the Bruins player (Johannsen?) with a legal check, it sent the right message. Trouba head hunting was a given and should have been addressed immediately with a similar head shot or better yet, knock Panarin out of the game. The Canes seem to lose their identity and edge at times. Not sure why what I do know is perimeter players like Necas who are not pure finishers need to go. Plenty of young wingers who take his place. Find the next Ferland is what I would do.

 

[Wolfpuck]

I’m all for Malkin, but I don’t see him playing anywhere but Pittsburgh or Russia.

Of course, I have been known to be wrong once or twice in my life…

 

[The Faulker 27]

LOL I'm sorry but Svech is never and was never going to be a MacKinnon or McDavid. Comparing him to them is....a choice. Maybe one day we'll get lucky enough to draft a transcendent talent like that.

But I was told Svech was the second coming of Gordie Howe, and now you're telling me he's just another above average winger with the occasional upside of physicality?

 

[3CanesInTheBox]

But I was told Svech was the second coming of Gordie Howe, and now you're telling me he's just another above average winger with the occasional upside of physicality?

I'm sure we can find a middle ground. HA!

 

[TomppaKoo]

If true, this is very dumb and seemingly antithetical to our high-pressure forechecking game. It would only be a boon to our already impressive forechecking game if defensemen also feared for their lives going back to get the puck (instead of just fearing a turnover). Is it because he thinks it's unsustainable for 82 games? It can't be because he thinks it'd cause us to take more penalties (I think we're already tapped out at the amount we reasonable could take). It's really clear from the last few years of playoffs that no one really fears us after awhile. Actually crushing guys every now and then could help that, and Svech is one of the main ones that can do it.

No hockey player at that level fears anyone. In any team. It is more about getting the momentum and having bounces and calls in your favor. Margins are very small and fear has nothing to do with that.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Big bowl of meh for me about that.

Oh the East was tough? Who f***ing cares. For the 2nd year in a row we finished the season with a Top 3 record and don't even make it out of the 2nd round. I don't care that the rest of the conference was good, outside of Florida, we consistently showed we were better than the rest of this conference. And it didn't matter. I wouldn't be as pissed off about this if we put up a great fight each year only to be bested by a team that played better, but that's just not been the case. Against Nashville, Tampa, Boston, and now New York, we consistently killed ourselves with horribly lazy play, unbelievably stupid penalties, a defense that is far more leaky than its reputation says it should be, and an entire offensive attack that goes ice cold.

Last night getting shelled and dog walked out of our own house in Game 7 against a team we have absolutely no business getting spanked by should absolutely be a tipping point that drives some serious change to the makeup of this team going forward. What we are doing in the playoffs does not work. Playing our game in the playoffs does not work. The status quo is not working.

And yet I don't have any faith in the front office to actually address these issues that have legitimately been present for 4 years now. We'll make a few 'buy low' moves, let guys like Trocheck and Neiderriter go to chase a higher salary. We'll wait til all the top end free agents are off the board and then we'll pick up the best of the table scraps after the fact, and then we'll go into next year, play the first 3 months of the season like the playoffs start in October, burn ourselves out by March and shit ourselves in May. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Not sure I agree that this team consistently showed it was better than the rest of the conference. That was true up until about mid-March, but everything after that was highly inconsistent. Losing streaks followed by winning streaks, dominant wins followed by bad losses. Nothing consistent about it.

To me, by April there was no significant difference in quality between the Canes, Leafs, Rangers, Bruins, Pens, and Caps*. The difference in the standings was based on the Canes winning a bunch of games earlier in the season and then cleaning up on an extremely weak schedule at the end.

Agreed about penalties and a lack of offensive consistency. Those are the major weaknesses of this team. More penalty discipline, and a tiny bit more offensive pop, are the next steps for this group.

IMO, actual pressure on this team starts now. Up until this point they wrapping up the “young group, haven’t figured out how to win yet” phase of team building. Going forward, they are firmly in the range of seasons where legacies are defined and the onus is on the core players to take that next step or be judged harshly for failing.

* I would throw Tampa in there too, but they really are a different animal in the playoffs, like dynasty teams often are.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Nah, there's at least one more user on here that will defend TDA regardless.

But yeah, this is the other side of TDA that we were told to watch out for. The one that lets his emotions control his actions and puts himself ahead of his teammates.

As I said in another thread, we didn't see a lot of it this year because the team didn't have too many "bad" losses in the regular season, but if this is the TDA we can expect come playoff time, no thanks.

Between him and Skjei, not a great playoff showing for ex-Ranger defensemen.

How often did the "bad" TDA really cost us though? He negated what would have been a 4 on 3 PP in game 6 but that's the only time I can think that his antics really cost the team against the Rangers. He mouthed off at the end of blow outs but lots of people do that in the league.

Sure his play was sub optimal against the Rangers but so was most of the teams.

 

[Peltz]

He's got a spark. It's sometimes misguided but I'll take a player like TDA over a cerebral Aho anyday

You're drunk. Players like Aho don't grow on trees. Any team would be lucky to have him. TDA - not so much.

 

[bleedgreen]

The one thing I noticed about this team, and it’ll sound counter intuitive with how they out shoot everyone is the overpassing. Throughout the year it often happened that they would give quality chances up over and over looking for a perfect play. In the regular season it worked well enough but it showed a lack of selfishness or confidence that’s needed to score when everything tightens up. When the season was on the line this series (and last) we reverted to what we do the most….making another pass.

Jarvis doesn’t have it yet but Svech has been infected, and Necas never had any problem being that guy. Throw them in the TT and Aho and you have a scoring issue.

That’s the biggest thing I saw this year along with consistently taking penalties. Having your starter in the playoffs would also be nice. I know Raanta overall played well but you’d think having Anderson would’ve made a difference in this series. That’s the problem with blowing anything up. We might’ve been fine with Anderson.

TDA was fine. He’s a distributor. Like everyone else he passes and we loved him all year for it. He did it in this series too…..the forwards he gave it to did nothing with it.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

How often did the "bad" TDA really cost us though? He negated what would have been a 4 on 3 PP in game 6 but that's the only time I can think that his antics really cost the team against the Rangers. He mouthed off at the end of blow outs but lots of people do that in the league.

Sure his play was sub optimal against the Rangers but so was most of the teams.

It's hard for a coach to preach "play your game, ignore theirs" when one of your top-pairing defenseman is taking every opportunity to make an ass out of himself.

The Rangers were clearly in his head all series, and it would have been far more beneficial if he simply shut up, put his head down and played his game.

 

[bleedgreen]

The scapegoating has begun.


This ain’t on TDA. One of the few guys with backbone on the team and his “antics” affected nothing other than showing he’s about the only one with passion which probably was a sad realization for him.

 

[MadeUpName]

DeAngelo was effective on the PP as a pivot making quick passes. He doesn't have much more to him than that. He isn't cutting into the slot like a Fox/Makar to draw bodies and he doesn't have much of a shot.

That type of blue-line pivot was really effective when the guys around him were able to take those pivots, set plays and capitalize. But by the end of the year the PP turned into 5 DeAngelo's on the ice all quick-pivoting the puck around. That isn't on DeAngelo, but he isn't adding anything to that PP setup.

 

[DaveG]

You're drunk. Players like Aho don't grow on trees. Any team would be lucky to have him. TDA - not so much.

TDA's in that category of guys like Phil Housley to me. REALLY good at what they do but you REALLY f***ing don't want them playing on your top pair. If you can get him on your third pairing he can absolutely feast on mismatches, and he should even be able to make it work on your second pair with the right partner, but you can't hide him on the top pairing.

Not sure if that would work on the 2nd pair for us or not since Skjei has his own issues on that end of things, hence having to keep Pesce with him all season basically.

 

[Svechhammer]

The one thing I noticed about this team, and it’ll sound counter intuitive with how they out shoot everyone is the overpassing. Throughout the year it often happened that they would give quality chances up over and over looking for a perfect play. In the regular season it worked well enough but it showed a lack of selfishness or confidence that’s needed to score when everything tightens up. When the season was on the line this series (and last) we reverted to what we do the most….making another pass.

Jarvis doesn’t have it yet but Svech has been infected, and Necas never had any problem being that guy. Throw them in the TT and Aho and you have a scoring issue.

That’s the biggest thing I saw this year along with consistently taking penalties. Having your starter in the playoffs would also be nice. I know Raanta overall played well but you’d think having Anderson would’ve made a difference in this series. That’s the problem with blowing anything up. We might’ve been fine with Anderson.

TDA was fine. He’s a distributor. Like everyone else he passes and we loved him all year for it. He did it in this series too…..the forwards he gave it to did nothing with it.

Absolutely. We don't have anyone on this team willing to go for the kill. They're all looking to be the guy who sets up the perfect play, and nobody is willing to just rip it when a decent chance is there because they're all convinced if they just make one more pass it'll be a better chance. Its infuriating how often you see someone get the puck with the shooting lane open and they hesitate for that extra second in hopes of the pass opening up, which allows the defense to establish shot blocking position and the goalie to square up.

We need a goddamn shooter on this roster, ideally 2. Svech or Jarvis really should be one, and there's a decent chance we can possibly rely on that in the future, but we absolutely need another. And really, it needs to be a 1st line talent sniper who isn't afraid to take their shot. And I don't mean a puck hog like Necas has become, but someone who will just rip one timers all night long from the circle on the PP and not missing the net on 75% of the shots. Or a guy who isn't overthinking everything he does on the fast break. A guy that the entire opposing defense knows they have to cheat against his shot when we have a PP, which in turn opens up space for the rest of the team.

We are so passive in the offensive zone in the playoffs that it is absolutely our single biggest problem in the postseason over the past few years. And I really do not think the answer to this problem is currently in the organization. And until that is fixed, this kind of shit we saw this week and the ways we've flamed out over the past few years is our ceiling.

 

[bleedgreen]

TDA's in that category of guys like Phil Housley to me. REALLY good at what they do but you REALLY f***ing don't want them playing on your top pair. If you can get him on your third pairing he can absolutely feast on mismatches, and he should even be able to make it work on your second pair with the right partner, but you can't hide him on the top pairing.

Not sure if that would work on the 2nd pair for us or not since Skjei has his own issues on that end of things, hence having to keep Pesce with him all season basically.

We only replaced Hamilton’s production, we didn’t replace his presence as a guy who can play on the top pair. We were short handed on D in terms of quality all season. We could really use another top three guy.

 

[DaveG]

The one thing I noticed about this team, and it’ll sound counter intuitive with how they out shoot everyone is the overpassing. Throughout the year it often happened that they would give quality chances up over and over looking for a perfect play. In the regular season it worked well enough but it showed a lack of selfishness or confidence that’s needed to score when everything tightens up. When the season was on the line this series (and last) we reverted to what we do the most….making another pass.

Jarvis doesn’t have it yet but Svech has been infected, and Necas never had any problem being that guy. Throw them in the TT and Aho and you have a scoring issue.

That’s the biggest thing I saw this year along with consistently taking penalties. Having your starter in the playoffs would also be nice. I know Raanta overall played well but you’d think having Anderson would’ve made a difference in this series. That’s the problem with blowing anything up. We might’ve been fine with Anderson.

TDA was fine. He’s a distributor. Like everyone else he passes and we loved him all year for it. He did it in this series too…..the forwards he gave it to did nothing with it.

Holy crap did we ever. It's been the #1 complaint about the team from me the past few seasons, literally the only shoot-first guy we had on our roster in recent seasons was a f***ing defenseman, and he's now in New Jersey. We NEED Svech and a couple other guys that have good shots to use them more in good opportunities instead of looking for the perfect play. I'd say Turbo since he has one of the best wristers in the league, but he's too set in his ways at this point to hope for change there.

 

[tarheelhockey]

TDA's in that category of guys like Phil Housley to me.

This was exactly the name I thought of when reading driveby’s post. Housley was a better version of TDA, and it would be insane to see a comment from his heyday saying “I’d rather have Phil Housley on my team than Mike Modano” or whoever.

I agree with the folks above saying this isn’t on TDA. He played his part well enough to win the series. This is more about just not getting the big collective push at the critical moment, so that an opponent can hang in there and find a way to win.

 

[SvechneJerk]

Absolutely. We don't have anyone on this team willing to go for the kill. They're all looking to be the guy who sets up the perfect play, and nobody is willing to just rip it when a decent chance is there because they're all convinced if they just make one more pass it'll be a better chance. Its infuriating how often you see someone get the puck with the shooting lane open and they hesitate for that extra second in hopes of the pass opening up, which allows the defense to establish shot blocking position and the goalie to square up.

We need a goddamn shooter on this roster, ideally 2. Svech or Jarvis really should be one, and there's a decent chance we can possibly rely on that in the future, but we absolutely need another. And really, it needs to be a 1st line talent sniper who isn't afraid to take their shot. And I don't mean a puck hog like Necas has become, but someone who will just rip one timers all night long from the circle on the PP and not missing the net on 75% of the shots. Or a guy who isn't overthinking everything he does on the fast break. A guy that the entire opposing defense knows they have to cheat against his shot when we have a PP, which in turn opens up space for the rest of the team.

We are so passive in the offensive zone in the playoffs that it is absolutely our single biggest problem in the postseason over the past few years. And I really do not think the answer to this problem is currently in the organization. And until that is fixed, this kind of shit we saw this week and the ways we've flamed out over the past few years is our ceiling.

Completely agree.

I think Laine fits this description to a 'T' & I'm not sure how I feel about that.

 

[bleedgreen]

Completely agree.

I think Laine fits this description to a 'T' & I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I think you’re right on one side, he’s the shooter we need but his level of passiveness when things aren’t going his way is off the charts. If he’s ready to grab a game every night especially when it matters most then great, but he’s been seen far too many times floating through games.

I could see us taking a swing at this still though.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

It's hard for a coach to preach "play your game, ignore theirs" when one of your top-pairing defenseman is taking every opportunity to make an ass out of himself.

The Rangers were clearly in his head all series, and it would have been far more beneficial if he simply shut up, put his head down and played his game.

Then that's on Rod to send a message and bench somebody. But he won't do that because he'd have to bench half the team for the dumb shit they do and did this series.

 

[Svechhammer]

I think you’re right on one side, he’s the shooter we need but his level of passiveness when things aren’t going his way is off the charts. If he’s ready to grab a game every night especially when it matters most then great, but he’s been seen far too many times floating through games.

I could see us taking a swing at this still though.

Yeah I very much don't like his tendency to just vanish and give half hearted efforts. Reminds me way too much of Semin, and we all remember how that ended.

I almost think that the solution here might be a little more drastic than we are currently thinking. I'm talking a package that sends a pick, prospect and current roster player out in order to bring an elite player back. To the extent of something like a 1st rounder, Turbo, and maybe someone like Morrow for an elite player in his prime that can take Turbo's spot in the lineup. I have no idea who that could be, and its a huge price to pay, but I genuinely wonder how we'd get the kind of player we need without going big like that.

Then that's on Rod to send a message and bench somebody. But he won't do that because he'd have to bench half the team for the dumb shit they do and did this series.

The time to stop those bad penalties is in the middle of the season. The fact that guys like Svech, Tro and Cole kept playing despite their addiction to horrendous penalties just shows that they really just don't care about it. I mean we had an elite PK, why would it matter, right?

 

[bleedgreen]

Yeah I very much don't like his tendency to just vanish and give half hearted efforts. Reminds me way too much of Semin, and we all remember how that ended.

I almost think that the solution here might be a little more drastic than we are currently thinking. I'm talking a package that sends a pick, prospect and current roster player out in order to bring an elite player back. To the extent of something like a 1st rounder, Turbo, and maybe someone like Morrow for an elite player in his prime that can take Turbo's spot in the lineup. I have no idea who that could be, and its a huge price to pay, but I genuinely wonder how we'd get the kind of player we need without going big like that.

I’ve always been more hesitant than most in my praise of TT so I haven’t wanted to shout it out too loudly as I figured I’d get torn up about it for being “against” him. I’m not.

He’s maybe the best choice for change. Aho plays well with others, and the two of them feed off each other to create that pass first mentality. Aho plays more direct when he moves away from him, though you can’t deny the chemistry.

He’s on a good contract, he’s still in his prime. He could be swapped out for someone who plays more in straight lines with a shoot first mentality. Or another top three defenseman.

 

[Heyheylj]

Part of that is our PK scheme is super aggressive so it’s easy to pull player out of position. The Rangers weren’t needy as aggressive, partly due to our players being offensively snake bit, and so could just pack it in and block passing lanes and shots.

I’m more annoyed that we don’t set up for one timers except from TDA at the pointz. Have Turbo and Jarvis/Necas swap sides and fire away. Every time Necas took a shot it took to long from collecting the pass to shooting and it got blocked.

I just think one timers are lower percentage shots, especially if the shooter isn’t very accurate ( our whole team). I think we would have been more successful to try and create a 2 vs 1, where there is a quick pass and quick tap into the net. Sounds so easy haha! Obviously more difficult than just firing away from the point I guess.

 

[ndp]

Watching MacKinnon and McDavid carry their team on their backs really juxtaposed how shitty our lottery pick player was playing.

Who was he playing with though, and he's only 22? Rods refusal to load up two offensive lines has hurt this team. I'm starting to think his stubbornness when it comes to making players "play the right way" combined with the system in which they play has hindered some of this teams offensive potential. They had two power forwards in Svech and Nino, pick one to put on the top line and put the other one the second line and leave them the hell alone to allow some chemistry to happen.

Having Nino strapped to Rods dyed-in-the-wooll 4a line did not do him any favors when it comes to offensive production, yet he managed to put up his best numbers as a Hurricane. Maybe if he's playing with Aho or Trocheck those numbers are even higher?

No matter how hard Rod tried to make it so, this roster was never a three or four line roster. It was a two line roster and should have been treated as such. Ultimately at the end of the day though special teams lost this series. That and facing probably the second best goalie in the league, who they're going to be stuck battling for quite sometime.

 

[The Faulker 27]

The one thing I noticed about this team, and it’ll sound counter intuitive with how they out shoot everyone is the overpassing. Throughout the year it often happened that they would give quality chances up over and over looking for a perfect play. In the regular season it worked well enough but it showed a lack of selfishness or confidence that’s needed to score when everything tightens up. When the season was on the line this series (and last) we reverted to what we do the most….making another pass.

Jarvis doesn’t have it yet but Svech has been infected, and Necas never had any problem being that guy. Throw them in the TT and Aho and you have a scoring issue.

That’s the biggest thing I saw this year along with consistently taking penalties. Having your starter in the playoffs would also be nice. I know Raanta overall played well but you’d think having Anderson would’ve made a difference in this series. That’s the problem with blowing anything up. We might’ve been fine with Anderson.

TDA was fine. He’s a distributor. Like everyone else he passes and we loved him all year for it. He did it in this series too…..the forwards he gave it to did nothing with it.

All playmaker no play. Rod said it himself in so many words after the game. We lack elite goal scorers.