GDT: R2G7 - Dogsh*ts vs. Sl*ts - Back From the Grave - 2PM For Some Awful Reason

[The Kingslayer]

To me the glaring issue was that the team played poorly as a whole, however when the majority of the team was able to climb out Graves remained. With a few others who shall not be named lol

For sure. There are several other players who should be scrutinized for not showing up this series. Cole and Graves mistakes lead to goals and I think thats why people are cancelling them.

 

[Moosehead1]

Yeah, and you're forgetting just how horrible he was in Game Two. Twice he was directly responsible for two goals against.

And let's stop with this "growth" thing. People kept saying that for the last three years. He's 25 now, what you see is what you get. He is no longer "developing."

Meh rules are meant to be broken.. Look at Chara. Boychuck. Countless others. Not comparing their games, just saying that 25 is not old and out.

 

[Moosehead1]

For sure. There are several other players who should be scrutinized for not showing up this series. Cole and Graves mistakes lead to goals and I think thats why people are cancelling them.

Rantanen. Jost. Compher.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Man I really wish i saw the world as you did lol. Girard driving Johnsons play. What a world it must be.

If you want to pretend like EJ is better than Girard, feel free.

Those of us living on planet earth know that’s not the case.

 

[Pokecheque]

As for EJ, I'm now convinced after watching him look practically reborn in the Bubble, that those stretches where he just looked out of sorts (and it happened way too often this season) that he simply wasn't healthy. I sure wish there was a way he wasn't getting banged up all the damned time, but that's just the case with EJ. He looked amazing IMO in all the round robin games and in the AZ series. He was off to a great start in the Dallas series too...and then he got hurt. And then so did the rest of the f***ing goddamned team.

Man I really wish i saw the world as you did lol. Girard driving Johnsons play. What a world it must be.

Um, hate to break it to you but he's right. Doesn't mean EJ was a passenger, just means Girard drove play on that pairing. I don't see why that sounds so foreign to you. Girard is one of the best transition d-men in the league and IIRC might be tops when it comes to clean zone exits and entries. Of course he took on the majority of puckmoving on that pairing, did you see something different?

 

[Moosehead1]

If you want to pretend like EJ is better than Girard, feel free.

Those of us living on planet earth know that’s not the case.

Bleep, blorp, beep, borp, can y'all hear me?

Lmao you are a funny lil dude.

 

[Pokecheque]

Meh rules are meant to be broken.. Look at Chara. Boychuck. Countless others. Not comparing their games, just saying that 25 is not old and out.

Apples and oranges, both those guys you listed are far, far more talented and smarter hockey players than Zadorov could ever hope to be. And there might not ever be a guy who worked as hard on and off the ice as Chara.

 

[Moosehead1]

As for EJ, I'm now convinced after watching him look practically reborn in the Bubble, that those stretches where he just looked out of sorts (and it happened way too often this season) that he simply wasn't healthy. I sure wish there was a way he wasn't getting banged up all the damned time, but that's just the case with EJ. He looked amazing IMO in all the round robin games and in the AZ series. He was off to a great start in the Dallas series too...and then he got hurt. And then so did the rest of the f***ing goddamned team.



Um, hate to break it to you but he's right. Doesn't mean EJ was a passenger, just means Girard drove play on that pairing. I don't see why that sounds so foreign to you. Girard is one of the best transition d-men in the league and IIRC might be tops when it comes to clean zone exits and entries. Of course he took on the majority of puckmoving on that pairing, did you see something different?

I think Girard was great and in no way am knocking his game, but he did not carry johnson in any way shape or form. If that was the case, he would've carried graves.

 

[Moosehead1]

Apples and oranges, both those guys you listed are far, far more talented and smarter hockey players than Zadorov could ever hope to be. And there might not ever be a guy who worked as hard on and off the ice as Chara.

I'm just saying that the idea that a player is his potential by 25 is alittle outdated.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think Girard was great and in no way am knocking his game, but he did not carry johnson in any way shape or form. If that was the case, he would've carried graves.

Hard to say IMO. As I posted earlier, I'm now 100% convinced that those stretches we see EJ struggle, he's just not healthy. I don't know if it's a Makar/Graves situation in those instances though. The pairing just plain doesn't work when EJ is really hobbled, and that's not a diss on either player.

 

[Moosehead1]

Apples and oranges, both those guys you listed are far, far more talented and smarter hockey players than Zadorov could ever hope to be. And there might not ever be a guy who worked as hard on and off the ice as Chara.

There was a time those words were spoken about the former *edit: derp, late night*, hindsight is a funny thing.

 

[Grigowski]

Losing a game 7 in OT sucks, and it really hurts. But losing a game 7 in this fashion and after being down 1-3 in the series is a f***ing nightmare that will stick with the players for a long time.......

To the point: Not so "smart" players doing dumb things at the dumbest time. That sums up this series. Despite the fact we were icing half an AHL-Squad, the real downfall were our Special-Teams and our Backup-Goalie.

To be honest: After game 4 I no longer believed in winning this series (I would have loved to be wrong). But even with half of the squad injured and your 3rd goalie in net this team fought back and showed spirit. That´s something to be proud of.

But gaining the lead with 3 minutes left and then sending out 5 Clowns only to get scored on 10 sec later is a f***ing joke.

I didn´t help eithter that the best player in the NHL right now was not a factor in game 7.

With no disrespect to Dallas (congrats for winning), but we lost this series more ourselves than got beaten by a better team.

- our special teams were a disaster. Whoever is responsible needs to be released. Bring in some fresh ideas.
- Backup-Goalie: I´m honest: I feel sorry for Franky, but he cost us this season. Even further, he maybe killed his own career too. I don´t know what happened to him, but he completely shit the bed at the worst possible time.....
- Our Defense: Without a goalie who is capable of bail you out, well, here we are. Losing EJ hurt us more than we could have imagined.
- Grit: We are still a soft team who gets pushed around like dolls. Bring in a new "sheriff". I guarantee you that Benn, Perry or Comeau wont get away with that against Vegas. A guy like Reaves will beat the shit out of this assholes.

And last, but not least: Injuries.

I´ve never seen a team who is that injury prone than us. There is something terrible wrong in the system. Maybe take a look at our medical department and training intensity. It´s one thing when a f***er like Benn or Perry take runs at your players. But that´s no excuse for that many other "injuries".... This is now the 2nd season in a row we can´t stay healthy enough to compete. Enough of this bullshit. Get your shit together. I´m tired to watch players like Connauton or Dries in a game 7 of a 2nd round series.


Off season plan:
- Get a new Number 1. Sorry, but i´ve allready lost faith that Grubauer is able to stay healthy. Go with the new N0 1 and Grubauer for the coming season if necessary. If Grubauer is avalaible. I have a strong feeling that there is a groin surgery incoming. After that have a look at Annunen. And maybe have a look at our goalie-coach. Same story with Varlamov, who now is doing fine on Long Island.
- Another Top 4 D-Man who can play with the "kids". Now the 3rd year on the Cole-Contract hurts. Graves had a good regular season, but is a 3rd pairing guy. Try to get rid of Cole if possible. How on earth did this guy win 2 Cups? Honestly, i don´t know what to do with Zadorov.
- New coach for our special teams
- Add more grit and nastiness. I never want to see us getting pushed around like that again.
- Our 3rd line needs to be upgraded
- Take a deep look at our "injury problems". I even predict that we even wont be healthy when the new season starts.

Our window is now. Enough of being patience Mr. Sakic

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm just saying that the idea that a player is his potential by 25 is alittle outdated.

Actually it's the opposite--the notion that a player hits his prime in his late 20s/early 30s is what's outdated. We now know that a player's prime years are around 22-27. General consensus among analysts is that 24 or 25 is when development effectively stops and they're no longer "prospects."

Of course there are exceptions, and of course there are late bloomers--just look at Graves. But we've seen Zadorov now for 321 NHL games (regular season and playoffs) as a member of the Avalanche over the course of five years. If there was another gear in his development, we would've seen it by now. If he wants to take a discount I imagine the Avs will listen, but it's pretty clear he will want to get paid. It's just time to move on.

 

[Pokecheque]

There was a time those words were spoken about the former *edit: derp, late night*, hindsight is a funny thing.

If Zadorov suddenly turns into a consistent middle or top pairing guy, I'll be sure to throw the crow into the microwave. But I don't think we'll see that.

 

[Moosehead1]

Losing a game 7 in OT sucks, and it really hurts. But losing a game 7 in this fashion and after being down 1-3 in the series is a f***ing nightmare that will stick with the players for a long time.......

To the point: Not so "smart" players doing dumb things at the dumbest time. That sums up this series. Despite the fact we were icing half an AHL-Squad, the real downfall were our Special-Teams and our Backup-Goalie.

To be honest: After game 4 I no longer believed in winning this series (I would have loved to be wrong). But even with half of the squad injured and your 3rd goalie in net this team fought back and showed spirit. That´s something to be proud of.

But gaining the lead with 3 minutes left and then sending out 5 Clowns only to get scored on 10 sec later is a f***ing joke.

I didn´t help eithter that the best player in the NHL right now was not a factor in game 7.

With no disrespect to Dallas (congrats for winning), but we lost this series more ourselves than got beaten by a better team.

- our special teams were a disaster. Whoever is responsible needs to be released. Bring in some fresh ideas.
- Backup-Goalie: I´m honest: I feel sorry for Franky, but he cost us this season. Even further, he maybe killed his own career too. I don´t know what happened to him, but he completely shit the bed at the worst possible time.....
- Our Defense: Without a goalie who is capable of bail you out, well, here we are. Losing EJ hurt us more than we could have imagined.
- Grit: We are still a soft team who gets pushed around like dolls. Bring in a new "sheriff". I guarantee you that Benn, Perry or Comeau wont get away with that against Vegas. A guy like Reaves will beat the shit out of this assholes.

And last, but not least: Injuries.

I´ve never seen a team who is that injury prone than us. There is something terrible wrong in the system. Maybe take a look at our medical department and training intensity. It´s one thing when a f***er like Benn or Perry take runs at your players. But that´s no excuse for that many other "injuries".... This is now the 2nd season in a row we can´t stay healthy enough to compete. Enough of this bullshit. Get your shit together. I´m tired to watch players like Connauton or Dries in a game 7 of a 2nd round series.


Off season plan:
- Get a new Number 1. Sorry, but i´ve allready lost faith that Grubauer is able to stay healthy. Go with the new N0 1 and Grubauer for the coming season if necessary. If Grubauer is avalaible. I have a strong feeling that there is a groin surgery incoming. After that have a look at Annunen. And maybe have a look at our goalie-coach. Same story with Varlamov, who now is doing fine on Long Island.
- Another Top 4 D-Man who can play with the "kids". Now the 3rd year on the Cole-Contract hurts. Graves had a good regular season, but is a 3rd pairing guy. Try to get rid of Cole if possible. How on earth did this guy win 2 Cups? Honestly, i don´t know what to do with Zadorov.
- New coach for our special teams
- Add more grit and nastiness. I never want to see us getting pushed around like that again.
- Our 3rd line needs to be upgraded
- Take a deep look at our "injury problems". I even predict that we even wont be healthy when the new season starts.

Our window is now. Enough of being patience Mr. Sakic

Well said. I'd parrot that entire post with the exception of Zadorov. He's the only intimidation that the avs iced outside of O'connor.

Also, wth is with out goalie injuries? Varly was good to go in NY. Gruby was good to go in washington. Personnel? Practice? Coincidence?

 

[Moosehead1]

If Zadorov suddenly turns into a consistent middle or top pairing guy, I'll be sure to throw the crow into the microwave. But I don't think we'll see that.

Love it.

 

[Avsboy]

Well said. I'd parrot that entire post with the exception of Zadorov. He's the only intimidation that the avs iced outside of O'connor.

Also, wth is with out goalie injuries? Varly was good to go in NY. Gruby was good to go in washington. Personnel? Practice? Coincidence?

This is a good point. We need more grit, not less

 

[Moosehead1]

This is a good point. We need more grit, not less

Should add Kadri to that. But regardless

 

[Foppa2118]

I had EJ as our 5th best defenceman in the regular season. Zadorov as the worst.

I just think you’re giving him to much credit for minutes played to equate that into him being a big reason for the gaudy statistics.

He played 21 a night because he was a RHD who played with Girard. Girard was the one driving play all season on that pair.

I disagree about as strongly as possible on Graves and Cole being better than EJ, but can you at least attempt an argument for how Cole is a better defenseman than EJ?

 

[Pokecheque]

I'll say this--I'll miss Nikita Zadorov. Hugely talented player, big, but also amazingly fast. Had tremendous defensive instincts and I'm pretty confident in saying there isn't a defenseman on Planet Earth who can shut down Connor McDavid as effectively as he did.

What doesn't get said enough about Z though, is that he isn't a dirty player. He doesn't hit in all the terrible ways that lead to injuries and suspensions. He rarely, if ever goes for the head, and he doesn't do that weird "exploding upward" thing that for some weird reason gets taught in hockey (I absolutely HATE THAT by the way). He plants his shoulder right in the opposing guy's chest, where you're supposed to lay the hit down. I will not love watching him take on the Avs in future contests.

He was guilty of taking dumb penalties, and this season he cleaned that aspect of his game up, and arguably got the exact role he was suited for during that stretch when Bednar and the staff just told him to shut down the team's top forward. One game, that was McDavid, and another, it was Gaudreau, and after that, is was Patrick Kane. The first two were completely neutralized and the Avs won, the third only scored when Z wasn't on the ice and Kane came down the right side against Graves (also, bad game from Grubauer, I was there). Unfortunately, even in this specialized role, he started to falter and got bumped back down to the third pairing.

 

[Moosehead1]

I disagree about as strongly as possible on Graves and Cole being better than EJ, but can you at least attempt an argument for how Cole is a better defenseman than EJ?

No. Haha

 

[Moosehead1]

I'll say this--I'll miss Nikita Zadorov. Hugely talented player, big, but also amazingly fast. Had tremendous defensive instincts and I'm pretty confident in saying there isn't a defenseman on Planet Earth who can shut down Connor McDavid as effectively as he did.

What doesn't get said enough about Z though, is that he isn't a dirty player. He doesn't hit in all the terrible ways that lead to injuries and suspensions. He rarely, if ever goes for the head, and he doesn't do that weird "exploding upward" thing that for some weird reason gets taught in hockey (I absolutely HATE THAT by the way). He plants his shoulder right in the opposing guy's chest, where you're supposed to lay the hit down. I will not love watching him take on the Avs in future contests.

He was guilty of taking dumb penalties, and this season he cleaned that aspect of his game up, and arguably got the exact role he was suited for during that stretch when Bednar and the staff just told him to shut down the team's top forward. One game, that was McDavid, and another, it was Gaudreau, and after that, is was Patrick Kane. The first two were completely neutralized and the Avs won, the third only scored when Z wasn't on the ice and Kane came down the right side against Graves (also, bad game from Grubauer, I was there). Unfortunately, even in this specialized role, he started to falter and got bumped back down to the third pairing.

What even is this post lol?

Exploding upward thing? I take it you never played haha.

Z is not dirty, he is solid, he does have a good offensive game, he can get the puck through from the point, and I have a hard time believing that he plays somewhere else next contract.

 

[Pokecheque]

What even is this post lol?

Exploding upward thing? I take it you never played haha.

Z is not dirty, he is solid, he does have a good offensive game, he can get the puck through from the point, and I have a hard time believing that he plays somewhere else next contract.

I played plenty bro. I was never taught to hit like that. In fact, they told us NOT to go high, simply because that's not the most effective way to knock a guy down. Hit him low and knock his center of gravity off. I wasn't a big guy at all so I had to hip check opposing forwards in order to stop them. Obviously things change at the pro level, but no, I think it's stupid to effectively uppercut guys with your shoulder.

 

[Moosehead1]

I played plenty bro. I was never taught to hit like that. In fact, they told us NOT to go high, simply because that's not the most effective way to knock a guy down. Hit him low and knock his center of gravity off. I wasn't a big guy at all so I had to hip check opposing forwards in order to stop them. Obviously things change at the pro level, but no, I think it's stupid to effectively uppercut guys with your shoulder.

Driving through the hit is not hitting high bud.

 

[Pokecheque]

Driving through the hit is not hitting high bud.

It is if you catch the head on your way up. And that happens way too often in the NHL.

Anyway, my point is: Zadorov DOES NOT do that. He hits the right way. You can throttle someone good without taking their head off. I wish more big, physical players did that.