GDT: R2G5 - Knights @ Avalanche - All About Speed - 7PM

[StLAvsFan]

Avs D is a strength. Insert EJ and Byram, remove Nemeth and Graves

Their D ain't a strength in this series. Makar & Toews have been ok. Timmins, a rookie, has been so-so. Girard has been pushed around like a little runt. And Nemeth and Graves--what more needs to be said about those 2 mistake machines? And don't expect EJ & Byram to come in and save the day. Neither one has played in months, so they'll get steamrolled by Vegas if they get thrown into the fire in Game 6. Unfortunately we're stuck with what we have on the back end, and it's gonna cost us this series. Just not good enough defensively I'm afraid.

 

[Turbonium]

And unacceptable that Joe Sakic keeps believing that a high-powered offense is gonna cover up all the glaring mistakes a half-assed D-corps is gonna make against quality opponents. The Avs will go further in the playoffs only when they have a few more big-bodied, defensively sound D-men--and not rookies or guys who are 5'9, 170 lbs.

Honestly this is simply too obtuse to give a real response to.

 

[Avsboy]

Their D ain't a strength in this series. Makar & Toews have been ok. Timmins, a rookie, has been so-so. Girard has been pushed around like a little runt. And Nemeth and Graves--what more needs to be said about those 2 clowns? And don't expect EJ & Byram to come in and save the day. Neither one has played in months, so they'll get steamrolled by Vegas. We're stuck with what we have on the back end, and it's gonna cost us this series.

If you're talking about the future, EJ and Byram are the adds. A six man D of Girard, Makar, Toews, EJ, Byram, Timmins is extremely strong. I think a reasonably healthy EJ would neutralize Vegas today. Sakic doesn't need to add on the backend, only remove Graves and Nemeth. We've mostly all been calling for that for years.

 

[Foppa2118]

2nd round - lost
2nd round - lost
2nd round - down 3-2 and likely a loss

Coaching isn't about stats, it's about getting results. How many 2nd round losses are you okay with? Before we know it this team will look completely different and their window will have closed. Unacceptable to not be able to win more than one playoff series a year.

This is the same thing everyone says before a team wins. Detroit was a perennial disappointment and Yzerman's leadership was routinely questioned until they finally broke through and won a couple Cups.

Yzerman was captain of all these teams and arguably the GOAT Scotty Bowman was head coach starting in 93-94 through 01-02. Same with Sakic on the Avs/Nordiques teams.

The only thing to take from these lack of results with great teams is that it's incredibly hard to win the Stanley Cup.


Detroit

1990-91 - 6th in West - Was up 3-1 against the Blues before losing games 5, 6, and 7 to lose in the 1st round.
1991-92 - 1st in West - Swept by Chicago in the 2nd round
1992-93 - 2nd in West - Lost game 7 in OT to Toronto in the 1st round
1993-94 - 1st in West - Lost to SJ in game 7 of the 1st round
1994-95 - 1st in West - Swept by NJ in the Stanley Cup Finals
1995-96 - 1st Overall - Dropped the first two games at home to Colorado before losing in 6 games (They had 28 more points than any other team in the reg season)
1996-97 - 3rd in West - Stanley Cup
1997-98 - 2nd in West - Stanley Cup
1998-99 - 3rd in West - Won the first two games against Colorado and then lost the next four to lose in the 2nd round.
1999-00 - 2nd in pts in West - Lost in five games to Colorado in the 2nd round
2000-01 - 2nd in West - Won the first two games against LA and then lost the next four to lose in the 1st round
2001-02 - 1st Overall - Stanley Cup
2002-03 - 2nd in West - Swept by Anaheim in 1st round
2003-04 - 1st Overall - Lost the last two games to Calgary to lose in six games of the 2nd round
2004-05 - Lockout Year
2005-06 - 1st Overall - Lost the last two games to Edmonton to lose in six games of the 1st round


Colorado/Quebec

1992-93 - 3rd in East - Lost to Montreal in six games in the 1st round
1993-94 - 11th in East - Missed playoffs
1994-95 - 1st in East - Lost to NYR in six games in the 1st round
1995-96 - 2nd in West - Stanley Cup
1996-97 - 1st Overall - Lost in six games to Detroit in the 3rd round
1997-98 - 4th in West - Avs were up 3-1 against Edmonton and then lost games 5, 6, and 7 to lose in the 1st round.
1998-99 - 2nd in West - Avs were up 3-2 against Dallas and then lost games 6 and 7 to lose in the conference finals.
1999-00 - 3rd in West - Wasted Bourque's first run by giving up the first 3 goals in game 7 against Dallas in the conference finals and didn't score until the third period before eventually losing 3-2.
2000-01 - 1st Overall - Stanley Cup
2001-02 - 2nd in West - Avs were up 3-2 against Detroit and then lost games 6 and 7 to lose in the conference finals again.
2002-03 - 3rd in West - Roy's last season still with Forsberg, Sakic, Tanguay, Blake, and Foote on the team. Were up 3-1 on Minnesota before losing games 5, 6, and 7, including the last two in OT to lose in the 1st round.
2003-04 - 4th in West - The Kariya/Selanne year. After beating Dallas in five in the first round, they drop the first three games against SJ, including the first two which weren't that close. Then eventually lose in six of the 2nd round.

 

[Turbonium]

This is the same thing everyone says before a team wins. Detroit was a perennial disappointment and Yzerman's leadership was routinely questioned until they finally broke through and won a couple Cups.

Yzerman was captain of all these teams and arguably the GOAT Scotty Bowman was head coach starting in 93-94 through 01-02. Same with Sakic on the Avs/Nordiques teams.

The only thing to take from these lack of results with great teams is that it's incredibly hard to win the Stanley Cup.


Detroit

1990-91 - 6th in West - Was up 3-1 against the Blues before losing games 5, 6, and 7 to lose in the 1st round.
1991-92 - 1st in West - Swept by Chicago in the 2nd round
1992-93 - 2nd in West - Lost game 7 in OT to Toronto in the 1st round
1993-94 - 1st in West - Lost to SJ in game 7 of the 1st round
1994-95 - 1st in West - Swept by NJ in the Stanley Cup Finals
1995-96 - 1st Overall - Dropped the first two games at home to Colorado before losing in 6 games (They had 28 more points than any other team in the reg season)
1996-97 - 3rd in West - Stanley Cup
1997-98 - 2nd in West - Stanley Cup
1998-99 - 3rd in West - Won the first two games against Colorado and then lost the next four to lose in the 2nd round.
1999-00 - 2nd in pts in West - Lost in five games to Colorado in the 2nd round
2000-01 - 2nd in West - Won the first two games against LA and then lost the next four to lose in the 1st round
2001-02 - 1st Overall - Stanley Cup
2002-03 - 2nd in West - Swept by Anaheim in 1st round
2003-04 - 1st Overall - Lost the last two games to Calgary to lose in six games of the 2nd round
2004-05 - Lockout Year
2005-06 - 1st Overall - Lost the last two games to Edmonton to lose in six games of the 1st round


Colorado/Quebec

1992-93 - 3rd in East - Lost to Montreal in six games in the 1st round
1993-94 - 11th in East - Missed playoffs
1994-95 - 1st in East - Lost to NYR in six games in the 1st round
1995-96 - 2nd in West - Stanley Cup
1996-97 - 1st Overall - Lost in six games to Detroit in the 3rd round
1997-98 - 4th in West - Avs were up 3-1 against Edmonton and then lost games 5, 6, and 7 to lose in the 1st round.
1998-99 - 2nd in West - Avs were up 3-2 against Dallas and then lost games 6 and 7 to lose in the conference finals.
1999-00 - 3rd in West - Wasted Bourque's first run by giving up the first 3 goals in game 7 against Dallas in the conference finals and didn't score until the third period before eventually losing 3-2.
2000-01 - 1st Overall - Stanley Cup
2001-02 - 2nd in West - Avs were up 3-2 against Detroit and then lost games 6 and 7 to lose in the conference finals again.
2002-03 - 3rd in West - Roy's last season still with Forsberg, Sakic, Tanguay, Blake, and Foote on the team. Were up 3-1 on Minnesota before losing games 5, 6, and 7, including the last two in OT to lose in the 1st round.
2003-04 - 4th in West - The Kariya/Selanne year. After beating Dallas in five in the first round, they drop the first three games against SJ, including the first two which weren't that close. Then eventually lose in six of the 2nd round.

Okay Jared, you should really be getting ready for game 6.

 

[flyfysher]

I just don't see it that way. Missing in all of this conversation is giving credit to the team that was tied with the Avs for the best regular season team.

They've played very well and made it very hard for the Avs to beat them. And it's not like Vegas didn't show up for game 5, they made it really tough for the Avs that game too.

Game 1 - Avs dominated a tired Vegas team
Game 2 - Avs started well again but Vegas started to shift the tide in their favor
Game 3 - Vegas dominated with the benefit of last change and a full building with a raucous crowd
Game 4 - Same story as above
Game 5 - The Avs shifted the tide back in their favor and were the better team most of the game before making a few mistakes in the third and OT that cost them the game.

That just looks like the really tight, hard fought playoff series we expected from the two best teams in the NHL. I don't think we're recognizing that enough in this conversation. It feels like we're just looking for the easy answer and someone to blame.

Installing Sherwood and Soderberg seemed a mistake to me in game 4.

Issue I have is with Kadri’s absence. His lack of discipline has handicapped the Avs on the second line. While I’m disinclined to just summarily let Kadri go value wise, I don’t trust him either. You can’t rely on him during the POs. I think he needs to go in the off season.

 

[Spilot23]

Installing Sherwood and Soderberg seemed a mistake to me in game 4.

Issue I have is with Kadri’s absence. His lack of discipline has handicapped the Avs on the second line. While I’m disinclined to just summarily let Kadri go value wise, I don’t trust him either. You can’t rely on him during the POs. I think he needs to go in the off season.

I also think he needs to go. I don't think Newhook is yet ready for a full season and playoffs at #2C which would leave us Jost in that position but I could be wrong with Newhook. Either way so far in these playoffs with limited icetime he has looked better than Kadri. He could barely skate against a team like St-Louis I highly doubt he would change the outcome of that series against Vegas where the pace is faster. Safe to say that Kadri has been pretty disappointing this year which why he shouldn't be the #2C here.

 

[flyfysher]

I also think he needs to go. I don't think Newhook is yet ready for a full season and playoffs at #2C which would leave us Jost in that position but I could be wrong with Newhook. Either way so far in these playoffs with limited icetime he has looked better than Kadri. He could barely skate against a team like St-Louis I highly doubt he would change the outcome of that series against Vegas where the pace is faster. Safe to say that Kadri has been pretty disappointing this year which why he shouldn't be the #2C here.

I agree. We don’t know if Kadri would have been effective but I disagree with henchman about Compher as 2C and agree with Poke IIRC. Compher also needs to be traded so we can get out from under his contract.

 

[Spilot23]

I agree. We don’t know if Kadri would have been effective but I disagree with henchman about Compher as 2C and agree with Poke IIRC. Compher also needs to be traded so we can get out from under his contract.

Compher shouldn't be anything more than a 4th liner or 3rd liner at best. He never impresses or produce but will always be the first guy that gets promoted while guys like Newhook or Donskoi who did good last game get benched

 

[niwotsblessing]

Did you see Graves face after getting caught up ice the ot goal? That was the face of a dude who just made a terrible mistake. Cole in a Avs uniform was last a plus 21 and he was a plus 21 this season. He has worked with many partners who have had plus minus success while they have been paired with him. I don't remember seeing Cole solely responsible for losing any Avs games but have seen Graves and others like Zadorov, Memeth, Barrie, EJ and lots not forget Makar and Geraldo. Well I will be watching the d Thursday night. They looked pretty durn good for the first 43 or so minutes yesterday.

Cole plays for the Mild? How come he didn't beat this sh!tty vegas team all by himself?

 

[larueskee]

Cole plays for the Mild? How come he didn't beat this sh!tty vegas team all by himself?

He didn't have Graves or Zadorov as his partner?

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Roy stepped up big time. You need unlikely heroes to win a cup but you also need your best players to be the best. Footer scored a big goal on Brodeur. Game 7 Sakic knocked down Stevens in a board battle and brought the crowd to its feet. Remember Sakic takes it fakes it scores? That play still gives me chills.

Unsung heroes have given us goals. Jost has one, soda has one, Donskoi has one.

If the Avs can hold leads or the top dogs do literally anything besides tilt the ice in the wrong direction (Rants being the exception) then this series is already over 4-1 Avs.

The margin of error has been very close. So I get why some people still have hope. But nothing since game 2 has given any indication MacK will have a positive impact in game 6.

It's 20 years ago and I didn't review any of the video. I still have this image of Stephane Yelle scoring while on his stomach. Maybe that was an easier game in the series?

It was however an unexpected bonus. Role player coming thru. Which was the message I was intending to send.

 

[The Abusement Park]

And unacceptable that Joe Sakic keeps believing that a high-powered offense is gonna cover up all the glaring mistakes a half-assed D-corps is gonna make against quality opponents. The Avs will go further in the playoffs only when they have a few more big-bodied, defensively sound D-men--and not rookies or guys who are 5'9, 170 lbs.

??? The defense is what makes this team elite and effective not the forward core.

 

[drhiii]

God damn it must be lonely up there.

Cracked me up.

 

[Foppa2118]

Okay Jared, you should really be getting ready for game 6.

Okay guy who just started following the Avalanche five minutes ago.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

This is the same thing everyone says before a team wins. Detroit was a perennial disappointment and Yzerman's leadership was routinely questioned until they finally broke through and won a couple Cups.

Yzerman was captain of all these teams and arguably the GOAT Scotty Bowman was head coach starting in 93-94 through 01-02. Same with Sakic on the Avs/Nordiques teams.

The only thing to take from these lack of results with great teams is that it's incredibly hard to win the Stanley Cup.


Detroit

1990-91 - 6th in West - Was up 3-1 against the Blues before losing games 5, 6, and 7 to lose in the 1st round.
1991-92 - 1st in West - Swept by Chicago in the 2nd round
1992-93 - 2nd in West - Lost game 7 in OT to Toronto in the 1st round
1993-94 - 1st in West - Lost to SJ in game 7 of the 1st round
1994-95 - 1st in West - Swept by NJ in the Stanley Cup Finals
1995-96 - 1st Overall - Dropped the first two games at home to Colorado before losing in 6 games (They had 28 more points than any other team in the reg season)
1996-97 - 3rd in West - Stanley Cup
1997-98 - 2nd in West - Stanley Cup
1998-99 - 3rd in West - Won the first two games against Colorado and then lost the next four to lose in the 2nd round.
1999-00 - 2nd in pts in West - Lost in five games to Colorado in the 2nd round
2000-01 - 2nd in West - Won the first two games against LA and then lost the next four to lose in the 1st round
2001-02 - 1st Overall - Stanley Cup
2002-03 - 2nd in West - Swept by Anaheim in 1st round
2003-04 - 1st Overall - Lost the last two games to Calgary to lose in six games of the 2nd round
2004-05 - Lockout Year
2005-06 - 1st Overall - Lost the last two games to Edmonton to lose in six games of the 1st round


Colorado/Quebec

1992-93 - 3rd in East - Lost to Montreal in six games in the 1st round
1993-94 - 11th in East - Missed playoffs
1994-95 - 1st in East - Lost to NYR in six games in the 1st round
1995-96 - 2nd in West - Stanley Cup
1996-97 - 1st Overall - Lost in six games to Detroit in the 3rd round
1997-98 - 4th in West - Avs were up 3-1 against Edmonton and then lost games 5, 6, and 7 to lose in the 1st round.
1998-99 - 2nd in West - Avs were up 3-2 against Dallas and then lost games 6 and 7 to lose in the conference finals.
1999-00 - 3rd in West - Wasted Bourque's first run by giving up the first 3 goals in game 7 against Dallas in the conference finals and didn't score until the third period before eventually losing 3-2.
2000-01 - 1st Overall - Stanley Cup
2001-02 - 2nd in West - Avs were up 3-2 against Detroit and then lost games 6 and 7 to lose in the conference finals again.
2002-03 - 3rd in West - Roy's last season still with Forsberg, Sakic, Tanguay, Blake, and Foote on the team. Were up 3-1 on Minnesota before losing games 5, 6, and 7, including the last two in OT to lose in the 1st round.
2003-04 - 4th in West - The Kariya/Selanne year. After beating Dallas in five in the first round, they drop the first three games against SJ, including the first two which weren't that close. Then eventually lose in six of the 2nd round.

Good trip down memory lane. Kudos!