Question for older players about handling a serious problem player.

[beenhereandthere]

Folks, I've got a what would you do situation, especially say if you're at least in your late 40s, like me. It's a long read, but I think detail makes in more understandable.
For almost 22 years around Seattle, there's just this one player who while really good talent wise, has been nothing but an harasser, bully and maybe even racist (has called me a slur on the ice, even though it was 20 years ago and said he agrees with Muslim Bans and the Wall.) towards me. It seemed to be tempered enough, for a little while, even though I still couldn't trust him as far as I could throw him until about 6 weeks ago when after an errant shot on my part he said "I will ***** kill you!", while I didn't literally take that at the time, I thought it was still disrespectful enough, to report to the rink afterwards. At 1st I wasn't going to until others encouraged it. Later on, he only doubled down (example, "you got a big mouth", "how hard is it to hit an open net", we were playing posts) instead of apologizing like the rink asked.
Finally after being challenged to a fight by the sucker, I reached out on email to him to, in summary, agree to disagree and leave each other alone. Even though he's the one who's been doing all the bullying (I admit I haven't taken it lying down but I certainly have tired to ignore and only participated when he clearly started it), he wrote back "leave me alone or I will call my attorney".
So what to do? I think fighting in drop in hockey is stupid but really stupid if you've reached a certain age. I could involve the rinks more into trying to stop his stuff, but then they may look at me as a problem and mess with me. I don't know how the laws are in Canada with this but, the only other 3rd option I've thought of is a restraining order. I don't think that could apply though if I willingly play in a game where he's at, however, it could carry some weight into him totally leaving me alone on the ice. Except for reasonable stuff that happens during plays.
Again fighting is for me almost no option, but unless I just quit, I may not have a choice and what if I lost? He's passed the over 45 mark himself and I think that would be embarrassing to participate in a fight with another 45 or over player, even if I "won".
Thanks for reading.

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[cynicalcitizen]

Folks, I've got a what would you do situation, especially say if you're at least in your late 40s, like me. It's a long read, but I think detail makes in more understandable.
For almost 22 years around Seattle, there's just this one player who while really good talent wise, has been nothing but an harasser, bully and maybe even racist (has called me a slur on the ice, even though it was 20 years ago and said he agrees with Muslim Bans and the Wall.) towards me. It seemed to be tempered enough, for a little while, even though I still couldn't trust him as far as I could throw him until about 6 weeks ago when after an errant shot on my part he said "I will ***** kill you!", while I didn't literally take that at the time, I thought it was still disrespectful enough, to report to the rink afterwards. At 1st I wasn't going to until others encouraged it. Later on, he only doubled down (example, "you got a big mouth", "how hard is it to hit an open net", we were playing posts) instead of apologizing like the rink asked.
Finally after being challenged to a fight by the sucker, I reached out on email to him to, in summary, agree to disagree and leave each other alone. Even though he's the one who's been doing all the bullying (I admit I haven't taken it lying down but I certainly have tired to ignore and only participated when he clearly started it), he wrote back "leave me alone or I will call my attorney".
So what to do? I think fighting in drop in hockey is stupid but really stupid if you've reached a certain age. I could involve the rinks more into trying to stop his stuff, but then they may look at me as a problem and mess with me. I don't know how the laws are in Canada with this but, the only other 3rd option I've thought of is a restraining order. I don't think that could apply though if I willingly play in a game where he's at, however, it could carry some weight into him totally leaving me alone on the ice. Except for reasonable stuff that happens during plays.
Again fighting is for me almost no option, but unless I just quit, I may not have a choice and what if I lost? He's passed the over 45 mark himself and I think that would be embarrassing to participate in a fight with another 45 or over player, even if I "won".
Thanks for reading.

Coexist

 

[JoeCool16]

No idea what you do after 22 years. I certainly wouldn't fight him either, though. If he's been harassing you for over two decades, I doubt throwing a couple of haymakers and getting banned from your league (and possibly charged with assault) will change anything.

 

[puckpilot]

As satisfying as it might be to pop him one, don't fight him. It's lose all around if you do.

Maybe along with reporting him to the rink, make a police report, especially if he threatens you. The cops may not be able to do much about it, but at least it's documentation that something happened. It also leaves a paper trail that there was and are issues with the guy and exactly what was said. This will probably help you a little if the guy actually ends up doing or attempting something stupid. You won't have to rely on vague memory to bring back past incidents. And maybe even document it yourself in a notebook or word document.

If he emails you with threats or slurs, make sure you keep those emails. Might even be a good idea to get yourself a go pro on your helmet to maybe catch him saying or doing something stupid, and to protect yourself from a situation where it's your word vs. his. Video doesn't lie. And nothing puts pressure on people to address an issue like seeing and hearing it themselves.

 

[LeifUK]

Don’t rise to a bully, that’s exactly what they want, and they’ll probably report you. Steer clear, and when you can’t stay calm. When he’s abusive, ask others if they heard it. it’ll help it stay in their minds. If he’s unduly aggressive on ice, get witnesses, report it. Some rinks have cameras, ours does. It serious unpleasantness occurs, and the rink does nothing, report to the league/hockey body.

 

[predfan24]

Coexist

Seconded. Ignore him if it's just words. If it gets physical get the rink involved. People like that thrive on negativity and bringing others down to their level. The worst thing you could do to him is ignore him. That will let him know he can't get to you.

If this doesn't work, and the verbal abuse is out control, I would notify the rink and tell them they will be losing my business if they don't handle this.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Sorry, I think the "coexist" sentiment isn't going to work. That's what @beenhereandthere has been doing for decades! And as everyone agrees, fighting isn't going to change this guys mind, and is probably going to get the OP banned instead.

Just report incidents as they happen. Warn the ref ahead of time that this player is abusive, and that you'll be doing nothing to provoke it. If he's abusing you, he's probably been abusing other players. Create the groundwork for your league to just kick this guy out.

 

[Slats432]

Plant a huge amount of cocaine in his vehicle and dial 9-1-1. (I kid) Ignore and like others say just report incidents as they happen.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I'll just tell you why no one ****** with me while playing.
I wasn't afraid of using my stick and everyone knew it.
Got kicked out of a few games for using it but no one said a peep to me after that.

My route for you would be more reserved of course.
Chirp him back. Do it loud enough so everyone can hear and embarass him.
If he's saying this stuff to you and no one else seems to care or want to get involved. It's all gonna be down to you to get him to shut his yap.

 

[beenhereandthere]

Well I went the restraining order route for now. Again, I think fighting in drop in is beyond stupid and he's crazy enough where, especially if I won, not to let to go and get revenge like in the form of a "errant" shot or "accidental" body contact.

 

[Richard]

Where are your teammates? What are they doing?

I'm sorry but something is off here; if this guy is a total dushnozzle as you describe, then, at least where I play, people would step in and be like what the f*** are you doing.

 

[jw2]

In 20 years, its only been on-ice talk?

 

[LeifUK]

Where are your teammates? What are they doing?

I'm sorry but something is off here; if this guy is a total dushnozzle as you describe, then, at least where I play, people would step in and be like what the **** are you doing.

It could be that he only bullies one or two people who he sees as easy targets for some reason. I had verbal regular put downs from one good player (i’m at a much lower standard) for over a year, presumably because he saw I was old, not a good player, and an easy target for abuse. Some people just aren’t nice. Someone I know can be quite unpleasant to kids and beginners at public sessions, he’s plain mean.

 

[Richard]

It could be that he only bullies one or two people who he sees as easy targets for some reason. I had verbal regular put downs from one good player (i’m at a much lower standard) for over a year, presumably because he saw I was old, not a good player, and an easy target for abuse. Some people just aren’t nice. Someone I know can be quite unpleasant to kids and beginners at public sessions, he’s plain mean.

That sucks man. I'm pretty good-I'm old now though-but solid A/B league and the league I play here has college level and some pro's in the summer including 2 or 3 NHLers (no on great but they are good). I'd definitely lower tier in that league.

However, unless you are a newbie breaking some of the rules of pickup(IE don't go too hard in corners where its dangerous, watch your stick-you'd get a couple warnings for that before things got unpolite) if someone did that where I play all the guys would give it to him and make his life a living hell. We have legitimate players play and ALL are welcome for stick time and pickup. Had a guy from LA come play once and this guy, who pretty much stinks, started giving this guy crap (honestly, we all talked afterward and it seemed like a racial thing, because the new guy was black and pretty good skater, moved the puck well but that is besides the story) and people gave him such crap and gave him crap thereafter that he hasn't been seen in the rink for a good two years.

That's what I am talking about. Some people aren't nice but the hockey culture is suppose to take care of that. At least where I live the players sort of police it themselves. While you aren't going to have people be friendly all the time and tempers flare we have a pretty good community here.

I think the community needs to step in-rinks are almost powerless sometimes.

 

[beenhereandthere]

That sucks man. I'm pretty good-I'm old now though-but solid A/B league and the league I play here has college level and some pro's in the summer including 2 or 3 NHLers (no on great but they are good). I'd definitely lower tier in that league.

However, unless you are a newbie breaking some of the rules of pickup(IE don't go too hard in corners where its dangerous, watch your stick-you'd get a couple warnings for that before things got unpolite) if someone did that where I play all the guys would give it to him and make his life a living hell. We have legitimate players play and ALL are welcome for stick time and pickup. Had a guy from LA come play once and this guy, who pretty much stinks, started giving this guy crap (honestly, we all talked afterward and it seemed like a racial thing, because the new guy was black and pretty good skater, moved the puck well but that is besides the story) and people gave him such crap and gave him crap thereafter that he hasn't been seen in the rink for a good two years.

That's what I am talking about. Some people aren't nice but the hockey culture is suppose to take care of that. At least where I live the players sort of police it themselves. While you aren't going to have people be friendly all the time and tempers flare we have a pretty good community here.

I think the community needs to step in-rinks are almost powerless sometimes.

Should not matter anyway during PUBLIC drop ins. At least those that don’t advertise a particular level before you could play.

The LA guy (yes if he didn’t know the Black guy from Adam and he did that seems racially motivated to me) did something I can easily see this guy who’s giving me nightmares (figuratively) doing here.

My skill level? Average at worst although occasionally I’m told it’s above average

 

[beenhereandthere]

Where are your teammates? What are they doing?

I'm sorry but something is off here; if this guy is a total dushnozzle as you describe, then, at least where I play, people would step in and be like what the **** are you doing.

My honest guess?

He’s friendly enough with the players that are big and or ex pros where they seem to give him enough of a pass.

Also maybe they fear like me some crazy retaliation if they speak out big time against him

 

[Richard]

Should not matter anyway during PUBLIC drop ins. At least those that don’t advertise a particular level before you could play.

The LA guy (yes if he didn’t know the Black guy from Adam and he did that seems racially motivated to me) did something I can easily see this guy who’s giving me nightmares (figuratively) doing here.

My skill level? Average at worst over occasionally I’m told it’s above average

At my public drop ins there is usually the same group of guys-everyone knows each other. My advice: go to the guys and talk to them. See what the community has to say. I'll bet all it takes is one "ex pro" to call him out on his shit and you can watch it end REAL fast. Good luck

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Get the rink involved.

Record him with his slurs/shit talk/threats. Take it to the rink or police.

Beat the shit out of him outside. Seriously.

 

[jw2]

Get the rink involved.

Record him with his slurs/**** talk/threats. Take it to the rink or police.

Beat the **** out of him outside. Seriously.

He's been the initiator of all the events within the last 2 decades - errant shot, tattling to the rink, sending an email, and contacting police.

The grumpy rink guy let off steam after taking a shot, that happens.

 

[beenhereandthere]

He's been the initiator of all the events within the last 2 decades - errant shot, tattling to the rink, sending an email, and contacting police.

The grumpy rink guy let off steam after taking a shot, that happens.

That’s not called for. Mods what you do think?

As far as "calling the police" not being cool, for ANYTHING, you're in the minority as far as opinion on that.

Should all transgressions be left on the ice in pick up, or do a few excuse calling the police?

 

[jw2]

Do you feel physically threatened and fear for your health and safety by this guy’s presence, or are you trying to get him in trouble?

Based on the information provided, it seems like it’s mostly miscommunication and overreacting by both parties.

 

[beenhereandthere]

Do you feel physically threatened and fear for your health and safety by this guy’s presence, or are you trying to get him in trouble?

Based on the information provided, it seems like it’s mostly miscommunication and overreacting by both parties.

Honestly, if you want to call "getting in trouble", holding someone accountable for their actions, why not?

I don't think I'm that intolerant of stupid stuff on the ice, however, if it's something that could mean someone isn't working the next day and/or it's something that one didn't sign up for on the ice like slashing someone on the bench, yes, that calls for other parties getting involved, like rink management or above.

In the past if stuff happens on the ice, but there's a handshake or clear the air afterwards and almost immediately afterwards, I and most players can let that go, at least the 1st time.

As far as safety and health? Of course not away from the ice (even though I don't totally but that past him) but on the ice, yep. It's almost not worth playing anymore.

 

[LeifUK]

If it’s unintentional collisions, or careless tripping, that’s one thing as this is hockey after all, and not a knitting circle, but deliberately trying to knock someone over, or hurt them, then that’s assault. Racial slurs are a total no no. I’m surprised anything like that would be tolerated. However, other people often do not notice when one person is abusive to another, or do not realise it’s frequent. Calling someone out publicly, such as saying “could you not racially abuse me” can make it clear to others.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Do you feel physically threatened and fear for your health and safety by this guy’s presence, or are you trying to get him in trouble?

Based on the information provided, it seems like it’s mostly miscommunication and overreacting by both parties.

Trying to get him in trouble?...miscommunication?

Did you even read the OP?

The guy threatened to kill him, OP also tried to squash it through email. The guy is a problem. It sounds like you either have to get him thrown out or find another rink.

 

[Barnum]

That’s not called for. Mods what you do think?

As far as "calling the police" not being cool, for ANYTHING, you're in the minority as far as opinion on that.

Should all transgressions be left on the ice in pick up, or do a few excuse calling the police?

Answer your PM I sent you. It sounds suspiciously like someone I know from the Seattle area. If it is who I think it is, you should do what I did 20 years ago and beat the snot out of him.