Question For A Write-Up. Need EDM Fans Thoughts.

[Markham30]

Your right that basically that this is the best deal. I think it's harder to find good D than good wingers...so I do think that although that first deal may favor the Wild...the positional value evens it out and the Oilers desperate need to add talent to their D system.


But Eberle for Brodin is a really really interesting deal. I'm terrified of giving up Brodin though. He's one of those guys that you realize how valuable they are more when they aren't there than when they are.


The other option to look at would be Scandella for Eberle

The main problem with both of these proposals is the Oilers don't need anymore LHD. They have Klefbom, Sekera, Davidson, Nurse and Reinhart who all are LHD. Our only RHD is Fayne... If and when we trade Ebs/Nuge/Hall, it will be for a Top 2/4 RHD depending on who is getting traded.

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

I would say you guys have a top five/ten team defence.


A perennial Selke Contender in Koviu.

Parise one of the best two way wingers in the league.

Vanek is literally the only forward on your team that is a liability in his own end. Not many teams have that luxury.

I would say you have guys have a top fifteen dmen core.

That's your opinion and that's fine. But the Wild give more responsibility to their D than any other team in the league. The only reason they can do that is the talent that they have. Individual point totals go down when the group is better. And yes the Wild do preach a culture of two way hockey. And yes it does take all 5 positions playing team hockey to be a good defensive team. Think whatever you want.

Not here to discuss this though. The Wild because of a very unique situation could be willing to part with a young #2/#3. There aren't many times that a 22 year old 1st pair caliber defender comes on the market.

Eberlie is the type of player who also doesn't come on the market often. Both of our teams are in unique situations. This is a situation that should work. If this trade were to happen likely neither fan base would feel great about it. But it might be a situation that could help both teams.

 

[slim2001]

What would the + be with Spurg to get RNH?

Not really wanting to move RNH, unless for a #1 defenseman. I think he will just keep getting better (Datsyuk lite) prime years 27-32 but RNH for Spurgeon and Coyle? I would still say no as an Oiler fan but most likely some no's on the Wild side as well.

As stated in previous post's though prefer Ebelre for Brodin.

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

The main problem with both of these proposals is the Oilers don't need anymore LHD. They have Klefbom, Sekera, Davidson, Nurse and Reinhart who all are LHD. Our only RHD is Fayne... If and when we trade Ebs/Nuge/Hall, it will be for a Top 2/4 RHD depending on who is getting traded.

So you are saying then that to trade one of those guys you are looking for a RHD who can play 22-23 minutes a game? Well how about Jared Spurgeon. Spurgeon has played with Suter this season and he plays on our #1 PP and he's a RHD.

The only thing keeping Spurgeon from being a #1 is his lack of size. Sounds like he's the kind of player you want.

We've established Brodin for Eberle as roughly good value. Spurgeon is worth more than Brodin. Which means that if Brodin slightly > Eberle...the gap is bigger between Spurgeon and Eberle.


So it would have to be Spurgeon + for Nuge most likely.

Or something like Spurgeon for Eberle/Yakupov. That would be the value. But I'm not sure you guys can give up two RW like you said. So I'm not sure.

 

[Markham30]

So you are saying then that to trade one of those guys you are looking for a RHD who can play 22-23 minutes a game? Well how about Jared Spurgeon. Spurgeon has played with Suter this season and he plays on our #1 PP and he's a RHD.

The only thing keeping Spurgeon from being a #1 is his lack of size. Sounds like he's the kind of player you want.

We've established Brodin for Eberle as roughly good value. Spurgeon is worth more than Brodin. Which means that if Brodin slightly > Eberle...the gap is bigger between Spurgeon and Eberle.


So it would have to be Spurgeon + for Nuge most likely.

Or something like Spurgeon for Eberle/Yakupov. That would be the value. But I'm not sure you guys can give up two RW like you said. So I'm not sure.

How about Dumba + Coyle for RNH + Yakupov + 3rd round or 2nd rounder? That would be a trade that would make sense for both teams and value would be close.

 

[slim2001]

So you are saying then that to trade one of those guys you are looking for a RHD who can play 22-23 minutes a game? Well how about Jared Spurgeon. Spurgeon has played with Suter this season and he plays on our #1 PP and he's a RHD.

The only thing keeping Spurgeon from being a #1 is his lack of size. Sounds like he's the kind of player you want.

We've established Brodin for Eberle as roughly good value. Spurgeon is worth more than Brodin. Which means that if Brodin slightly > Eberle...the gap is bigger between Spurgeon and Eberle.


So it would have to be Spurgeon + for Nuge most likely.

Or something like Spurgeon for Eberle/Yakupov. That would be the value. But I'm not sure you guys can give up two RW like you said. So I'm not sure.

Pretty much sums it up. I think Eberle #1 RW is worth more than Brodin #3/4 D with #2/3 potential. If Brodin becomes a #2 Oilers win the trade, #3 fairly even trade, remains as a #4 Wild win the trade. Really depends on your perspective of potential and how much you value defense compared to forwards. As of right now Defensemen are worth a lot but with the expansion draft coming and most teams locking up 7 forwards and only 3 defensemen it might be better to wait a year as #3/4 defensemen value might plummet. With that said I would not overpay for middle pairing Defensemen with potential right now. If the Wild want Eberle+ for Brodin I would decline, straight up is worth considering.

 

[I am the Liquor]

I would consider Eberle for Dumba.

 

[slim2001]

How about Dumba + Coyle for RNH + Yakupov + 3rd round or 2nd rounder? That would be a trade that would make sense for both teams and value would be close.

I would not do RNH for Dumba and Coyle, adding Yak and a pick seems overkill but that might just be me.

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

Not really wanting to move RNH, unless for a #1 defenseman. I think he will just keep getting better (Datsyuk lite) prime years 27-32 but RNH for Spurgeon and Coyle? I would still say no as an Oiler fan but most likely some no's on the Wild side as well.

As stated in previous post's though prefer Ebelre for Brodin.

Yup. Yup. That's the problem here when talking about good players. I don't disagree about Nuge. Not to mention the league is now a league where you have to have 3 scoring lines and not just two. To be honest I think that Nuge is young enough and close enough to the latter 2's age that you should build your offense around those 3. Who cares which is actually line 1, 2, and 3. You guys could have 3 #1's down the middle which would be crazy. McDavid/Draistail/Nuge


I think I'm going to throw Nuge out now and say that that the value isn't there for either side to pull the trigger.


I keep coming back to Brodin for Eberle because the value is pretty fair for both sides and both sides are getting/giving up good players. It feels wrong to trade players like that. Seems like most big names get dealt mostly for picks and potential.

Something about trading Brodin for Eberle makes me feel a bad taste in my mouth like even though Eberle is exactly what the Wild need...Brodin is one of those players you don't truly realize his value until he leaves. He's one of those players who's value is way higher in professional circles around the league than on message boards and forums and in fantasy sports. However with that being said, there is something to be said for Brodin's lack of point totals you know? Which makes Brodin's value so hard to peg.

Brodin is incredibly good defensively for how young he is and he's been very good since Day 1. When Suter first signed with the Wild, the move to switch Brodin was what stabilized Suter. He was BAD defensively. The thing is...when he played with Weber...that's the only time Suter has played with a defender better than him. He deferred to Webber offensively and it was perfect.

But no matter how good Brodin is individually defensively...how much does that mean when you have to rely on 4 other guys? Brodin could do everything right and still be on the ice for a lot of goals because his teammates are bad at defense.

So how do assign a value who doesn't really have a stat or a metric to define why he's as good as he is?


What I'm getting at is that if there were a way to make this deal a little sweeter for the Wild, I think I would be able to stomach losing Brodin.

There needs be a reason the Wild can't do this deal. The Oilers have 3 above average scoring lines no matter who they put around McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge.

The Wild need skill. Yakupov deserves a chance at a change of scenery. The Oilers could quickly turn around their D with this trade and by also getting defender drafting high in the draft.




Hmmm. Thank you for the discussion thus far...it has allowed me to put a lot of thought in. I'm still leaning towards not being able to trade Brodin for Eberle.

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

I would consider Eberle for Dumba.

I think I would do Eberle for Dumba if EDM was willing to. I say that only because this series and season has made it obvious we need some scorers.

But yeah...


Brodin or Dumba for Eberle...that seems to be what the deal would be if there was one. It's tough though.


I think I would do Dumba straight up for Eberle. Even though in my heart of hearts I know that at some point down the line I hate myself for this deal. Dumba may always be a player who you have to deal with him turning the puck over in bad spots every once in a while (HF devotes 1000s of posts to whether or not Erik Karlsson is good for the same reason), but there isn't a way that at some point he doesn't expode offensively. He's got all the tools offensively for a defender.

Brodin/3rd rounder for Eberle/Yakupov


I just need something else there that makes me pull the trigger.

 

[Wewillrise]

I think I would do Eberle for Dumba if EDM was willing to. I say that only because this series and season has made it obvious we need some scorers.

But yeah...


Brodin or Dumba for Eberle...that seems to be what the deal would be if there was one. It's tough though.


I think I would do Dumba straight up for Eberle. Even though in my heart of hearts I know that at some point down the line I hate myself for this deal. Dumba may always be a player who you have to deal with him turning the puck over in bad spots every once in a while (HF devotes 1000s of posts to whether or not Erik Karlsson is good for the same reason), but there isn't a way that at some point he doesn't expode offensively. He's got all the tools offensively for a defender.

Brodin/3rd rounder for Eberle/Yakupov


I just need something else there that makes me pull the trigger.

-You will constantly hear that EDM doesn't need LD so Borodin is out but I doubt that's the way Chia thinks. Brodin will be looked at over all other Minny players first especially with his history with klefbom, age, style of play, size.

- secondly I'm guessing they would target Dumba but for the pp ability but will look at the prices of Faulk, Barrie and the cheapest Vatanen first.

I think minny and Edm are perfect trading partners and the two GMs have history trading together although in mostly small deals.

 

[Mr Sakich]

I'll start off by saying that Eberle for Brodin would not be a bad starting point for that deal. I do think Brodin holds more value than Eberle.

might want to do a bit more research.

When Eberle was paired with Mcdavid , he had 1.32 goals / 60 . Ovechkin led the league in goals and he averaged 1.37 G/60. Speza had the 2nd highest G/60 at 1.27.

Eberle with Mcdavid is elite scoring, could be top 2 or 3 in the nhl next year. McDavid will be better next year and they have to figure out the other winger. The injuries meant that they did not play together much this year but absolutely killed it when they did.

that is worth a lot more than a low scoring #4 dman

 

[TheRebuild]

What happened to Dubnyk? Not watching any playoffs this year (I hate ALL of the teams that are playing), but wasn't he supposed to be Vezina caliber and the Oilers were just holding him back and stuff?

 

[WoolyWhatsIt]

Since when is Brodin worth more then a 30 goal scorer? The OP really blind seeing Brodin has looked mighty average since his "rookie year" when he played next to Ryan Suter?

Brodin is yet to put up 20 points in this league.

Only reason I see us going after him is because he is buddies with Klefbom.

It's absurd how underrated Eberle isle argue wide.

 

[nabob]

Minny fans criminally overrate their defensemen who play with/behind Suter. Put Suter on Edmonton's blueline for 26-30 minutes a night and watch and see how much better the likes of Klembom, Davidson, and Nurse all become.

Brodin hasnt been anything special since his rookie season, Spurgeon has never put up great offensive numbers over a full season to be anything better than a one dimensional middle pair guy. Dont think either one of them is worth a player who has consistently been in the top 10 RWers in the league since his rookie season.

 

[TheRebuild]

I like Brodin. But a guy who tops out at 20 points a year is not a #1 d-man. A guy who'll get you somewhere between 2-3 goals a year is now worth a first-line RW who'll get you anywhere between 25-30 goals a year apparently. Sounds like a MacT trade to me.

 

[Draiskull]

Couple of issues with the OP...
First of all the Oilers dont need players around McDavid's age. We would actually prefer Dmen in their prime over someone raw like Dumba.

Also, value of RNH is a lot more than Eberle so they are not interchangeable.

Spurgeon would get chewed up in Edmonton if we bring him as the answer to our defense issues.

Brodin is only attractive because of his history with Klefbom.. Doubt Chia cares about that to be honest.

Just dont see a fit here unless its a 3 way deal that gets Hamonic in Edmonton.

To EDM: Hamonic
To MIN: Eberle
To NYI: Brodin + something from EDM

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Ok fair enough. I see what you are saying.


Let's try this and see where we are at.


Brodin/Rielly for Eberle/Yakupov

This issue with this and really everything you've listed is the Oilers have desperate need for right shot D.

I personally am not a fan of Brodin's game, and regardless of the fact that he's comfortable on the right side, he looked miles worse this year when he wasn't attached to Suter's hip.

For me I'd rather have Dumba coming back. I know he's more raw and not as good defensively, but we need a PPQB and a guy that can transition the puck to our forwards.

 

[Draiskull]

This issue with this and really everything you've listed is the Oilers have desperate need for right shot D.

I personally am not a fan of Brodin's game, and regardless of the fact that he's comfortable on the right side, he looked miles worse this year when he wasn't attached to Suter's hip.

For me I'd rather have Dumba coming back. I know he's more raw and not as good defensively, but we need a PPQB and a guy that can transition the puck to our forwards.

Dont think the Oilers have desperatee need for right shot D.. They just need quality RD. Brodin is just that .. He is RD who shoots left. Has been all his career.

Its not the same as Davidson\Sekera who have been LDs but can play RD if needed. Brodin plays RD.

Would be great if Chia can flip Yakupov with a little plus into Brodin. Eberle would be overpayment and should be used to fetch a better Dman.

Dont want Dumba on Oilers at all.. You dont win with players like that.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Dont think the Oilers have desperatee need for right shot D.. They just need quality RD. .

 

[ChaoticOrange]

There needs to be a like button in here.

Ask any coach if everything else was equal if he'd rather have a left shot D on the right side, or a right shot D on the right side, and I bet I can tell you what 99 out of 100 would say.

Dumba brings a lot more of what we need than Brodin does.

It also needs to be factored in that it is HIGHLY likely that our bottom pairing will have a left shot D playing the right side. Of necessity the guy we go get HAS to be a right shot D.

Klefbom-RHD
Sekera-RHD (hopefully not Fayne but it might be)
Nurse-Davidson

 

[s7ark]

I'm not super interested in any of the Wild's D apart from Suter obviously. Brodin is of minor interest because he is still young and is good friends with Klef. But not at the price of Eberle.

Something like Yak + 32nd for Brodin I'd do. Yak hasn't looked great since his rookie season, but then neither has Brodin(when he was paired with a top 10 D). Perfect swap.

Eberle is worth far more. If the Oilers are smart and keep him, he'll pot 30-35 playing with McDavid next year. We kinda need those goals.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

As funny as it sounds, I'm not sure how good of a trading partner the Wild are for the Oilers (at the moment), despite the team needs.

The main reason I say this due to the expansion draft. Although Minnestoa has a very nice and deep defence, none of them (short of Suter) are good enough to be "the guy" for a team. A bit like Vatanen or even Shattenkirk.

If the Oilers do get 1 of the Minnesota defenceman, they're still going to need to go out and get another guy to help prop up the defence.

**Ignore the actual trades, just focus more on the situation I'm taking about**

Lets say the Oilers move out RNH for Spurgeon, and Eberle for Hamonic, that'll leave you with...

Klefbom-Hamonic
Sekera-Spurgeon
Davidson-Fayne

... Looks good, but then you're going to lose one of them in the expansion draft. (unless this team takes the 8 skaters route, which... Haha just no)

Then you're going to see the return for either RNH or Eberle (or Klefbom) go up in a puff of smoke. It's the same issue/concern the Wild are dealing with now.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Basically the Oilers need 2 defenceman heading into next off season.

But due to the expansion draft, they'd be far better off to target getting one 1st tier and one 3rd tier guy vs. two 2nd tier defenceman. Thus none of Spurgeon, Scandella, Brodin, or Dumba really appeal to me.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Basically the Oilers need 2 defenceman heading into next off season.

But due to the expansion draft, they'd be far better off to target getting one 1st tier and one 3rd tier guy vs. two 2nd tier defenceman. Thus none of Spurgeon, Scandella, Brodin, or Dumba really appeal to me.

1 is an absolute must.
2 would be ideal
3 would be a luxury but not necessary.