Question about the AV years

[DL44]

its a stupid criticism of good teams though. almost by definition, leading teams sit back. thats how hockey works. score effects are as sure as anything in hockey

Its also stupid because of frequency. A good team frequently has the lead in the 3rd so there is more occassion to to "sit back". I'll happily take a "sit back" winning team over a push the play losing team.

It's also a stupid criticism because it takes away all credit to the team attempting to get back in the game... They obviously up their effort level by a significant margin and can be overwhelming... It's the NHL where any team can beat any team on any given night. Even if a team wanted to continue to press on and not change their game with a lead, the other team has no choice but to get more aggressive... so the game changes anyway.

 

[mathonwy]

Bless AV, wish the guy was still a Canuck.

He sits on leads which churns out regular season wins at a remarkable rate.

In the playoffs where teams are literally leaving everything they have out there on the ice, AVs sitting on leads lead to a bombardment in the defensive zone that inevitably wears the team down and results in the other team having many solid chances.

Welcome to my ignore list population 2.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

All I know is, I truly miss AV.

I have two words that will bring you back to earth... Aaron Rome.

And if that doesn't work... Tanner Glass.

 

[Addison Rae]

I have two words that will bring you back to earth... Aaron Rome.

And if that doesn't work... Tanner Glass.

Aaron Rome was a fine bottom pairing guy, that was being paid reasonable.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Possession monster
2 goals lead into the third is money in the bank

 

[Shareefruck]

I never wanted them to fire AV or Gillis, personally. They made a few mistakes, but overall were great and deserved the benefit of the doubt/more chances to redeem themselves. Miles better than what we have now.

 

[PG Canuck]

I have two words that will bring you back to earth... Aaron Rome.

And if that doesn't work... Tanner Glass.

Okay, and? Every coach has their favourites..look no further than the coach we have right now.

 

[Hit the post]

Have to wonder if the same end result (ie., AV firing) would've happened had he managed the bench better in that Sharks playoff game near the end of the 3rd period. Don't think the outcome would've different (Sharks would've likely still won series) - but putting up a fight in the round is alot better than going 0-4.

 

[Nucker101]

AV was a really good coach here. Every team sits back with a lead in the 3rd to some degree. The Canucks were usually a top possession/corsi team when he was here.

 

[TruGr1t]

I've always heard a coach is only as good as his goalie. AV is the poster boy for this saying.

 

[Shareefruck]

^ I think Willie D is disproving that theory, and proving that a team is only as good as its coach instead.

 

[Wisp]

I miss AV. Wouldn't give a 19 year old the time of day, though. Our kids should be ready for prime time when New York is done with him, right?

 

[Street Hawk]

I never wanted them to fire AV or Gillis, personally. They made a few mistakes, but overall were great and deserved the benefit of the doubt/more chances to redeem themselves. Miles better than what we have now.

I miss AV. But, Torts was correct when he arrived. The team was stale, so Gillis had to decide to change up some of the principal members of the roster or can the coach. He opted for the easy way out and canned AV.

Gillis re-upped Burrows for 4 years at $18 million and then the twins for 4 years at $28 million each. That's not changing the core.

Plus, look at the lack of MG's draft picks from 2008-2011, who in 2015 range in age between 22 to 25/26. How many of them are regulars in the NHL?

Only Hodgson and KConn are in the NHL right now. Hodgson 2 points in 15 games.

 

[Street Hawk]

I miss AV. Wouldn't give a 19 year old the time of day, though. Our kids should be ready for prime time when New York is done with him, right?

That is somewhat true. But, also look at the youngsters AV had to work with.

Hodgson - barely hanging onto an NHL job now with Nashville after his Buffalo buy out

Schroeder is in the AHL with Minny

Jensen had a couple of ok games under AV. Now, Benning doesn't think he projects to be a top 6 winger.

Corrado - AV actually liked the kid and played him when he got the call up.

MG didn't exactly give AV the likes of Virtanen, McCann, Hutton to work with.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

That is somewhat true. But, also look at the youngsters AV had to work with.

Hodgson - barely hanging onto an NHL job now with Nashville after his Buffalo buy out

Schroeder is in the AHL with Minny

Jensen had a couple of ok games under AV. Now, Benning doesn't think he projects to be a top 6 winger.

Corrado - AV actually liked the kid and played him when he got the call up.

MG didn't exactly give AV the likes of Virtanen, McCann, Hutton to work with.

And the likes of Shirakov who sucks.

 

[Wisp]

That is somewhat true. But, also look at the youngsters AV had to work with.

Hodgson - barely hanging onto an NHL job now with Nashville after his Buffalo buy out

Schroeder is in the AHL with Minny

Jensen had a couple of ok games under AV. Now, Benning doesn't think he projects to be a top 6 winger.

Corrado - AV actually liked the kid and played him when he got the call up.

MG didn't exactly give AV the likes of Virtanen, McCann, Hutton to work with.

I hear you, but I see things like the Duclair trade and wonder. He didn't let Tanev be a regular roster player until he was waiver ineligible.

If AV was coach, McCann and Virtanen are back in Junior and Horvat and Hutton are in the AHL.

 

[Hit the post]

I think AV's development of players can be underrated.

Look how guys like Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa (for a short-time anyhow ), Edler turned out, etc.,

He was just a guy that made sure 'you paid your dues'.

 

[mathonwy]

^ I think Willie D is disproving that theory, and proving that a team is only as good as its coach instead.

THIS team is only as good as its coach.

And the main reason why is because our beloved Sedins place 100% of their faith in the coach.

Not bashing anyone. Just telling it like it is ya know what I'm sayeeeeen?

 

[TheLowKreider]

Rangers fan here, love AV. Still have questions if we win the whole thing with his system.

I hear you, but I see things like the Duclair trade and wonder. He didn't let Tanev be a regular roster player until he was waiver ineligible.

If AV was coach, McCann and Virtanen are back in Junior and Horvat and Hutton are in the AHL.

I think the Duclair trade was just Sather trying to win it all before he retired, plus having Buchnevich in the ranks coming up. I was concerned he'd shaft the younger players but guys like Kreider, Miller, Fast, Lindberg, and Hayes have really blossomed under him. Even McDonagh had his breakout year when AV came into the fold.

Don't love the at-times extremely passive play in the third period (or Tanner Glass but he's in the AHL now) and I think that might have cost them against the Kings but can't ask for much more.

 

[timw33]

Feels like he just plays the percentages, and when it burns you you really notice (re: blowing leads in the third while having no momentum), but when it works (and it works most of the time) you don't notice.

 

[B-rock]

I think AV's development of players can be underrated.

Look how guys like Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa (for a short-time anyhow ), Edler turned out, etc.,

He was just a guy that made sure 'you paid your dues'.

Don't forget about Hansen. I think AV is pretty much the guy responsible for making Hansen the hard charging aggressive player that he is today.

AV would sit him after a handful of games when Hansen became complacent and started playing a skill game instead of the aggressive game he plays today. Moulded him into the honey badger we all know and love.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

sitting on leads? frustrating to a degree, but it's not like we got better in third periods under torts or willie.

i still disagree with AV's icetime and zone starts management. that was what really killed us. in the playoffs, it was so easy for the opposing coach to hard match a norris guy (or two) and a selke-contending center against the sedins because even on the road you knew when they were coming on the ice.

but there was also a lot to like about AV, relative to the two guys who succeeded him. but his stubbornness may have cost us a cup. the wear and tear on the sedins over the first two rounds facing a steady diet of keith/seabrook and then weber/suter gassed them for the finals, where of course they then had to face chara/seidenberg and bergeron.

 

[vancityluongo]

sitting on leads? frustrating to a degree, but it's not like we got better in third periods under torts or willie.

i still disagree with AV's icetime and zone starts management. that was what really killed us. in the playoffs, it was so easy for the opposing coach to hard match a norris guy (or two) and a selke-contending center against the sedins because even on the road you knew when they were coming on the ice.

but there was also a lot to like about AV, relative to the two guys who succeeded him. but his stubbornness may have cost us a cup. the wear and tear on the sedins over the first two rounds facing a steady diet of keith/seabrook and then weber/suter gassed them for the finals, where of course they then had to face chara/seidenberg and bergeron.

Would you rather have Keith, Weber and Suter matched up against Glass, Tambellini/Hodgson and Oreskovich in the offensive zone? Keeping in mind that not only are those guys defensive beasts, but they also have a mean transition game and can generate counter attacks in an instant. Not to mention, we also had Beast Mode Kesler ready to feast on second pairings, so it's not like it was a full proof strategy to just hard match the Sedins.

AV's deployment of the Sedins won them both an Art Ross. It was genius. If Dan Hamhuis and Manny Malhotra don't get injured, we would have won the cup using those same zone starts.

Anyways, Vigneault getting overlooked for the World Cup teams is a joke. Maybe being a part of the Canucks for so many years removed him from the coaching fraternity. I legitimately still think he's a top-3 coach in the league.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Would you rather have Keith, Weber and Suter matched up against Glass, Tambellini/Hodgson and Oreskovich in the offensive zone? Keeping in mind that not only are those guys defensive beasts, but they also have a mean transition game and can generate counter attacks in an instant. Not to mention, we also had Beast Mode Kesler ready to feast on second pairings, so it's not like it was a full proof strategy to just hard match the Sedins.

AV's deployment of the Sedins won them both an Art Ross. It was genius. If Dan Hamhuis and Manny Malhotra don't get injured, we would have won the cup using those same zone starts.

the idea that AV's deployment of the sedins won them both an art ross is a myth.

in 2010, when henrik won his art ross, here are the zone starts of other top centers in the league:

rank | season | player | percentage of o-zone starts
6 | 2009-2010 | JONATHANTOEWS | 58.8
8 | 2009-2010 | EVGENIMALKIN | 58.1
9 | 2009-2010 | NICKLASBACKSTROM | 58.0
10 | 2009-2010 | HENRIKSEDIN | 57.7
16 | 2009-2010 | SIDNEYCROSBY | 56.7
29 | 2009-2010 | STEVENSTAMKOS | 54.6

it's not until 2011 that AV went totally nuts and gave the sedins historically high, and unreasonable, offensive zone starts.

but no, i obviously would not want keith and weber and suter against tanner glass' lines. i certainly wouldn't mind the kesler and torres/lapierre/hansen lines sharing some of that load though.

and yes, obviously if manny and hamhuis were healthy, we'd have had a much better chance of winning against the bruins. maybe even sweeping them. but the point is: in the case of catastrophic injury, which we did indeed have, and which is not super-uncommon for teams on deep playoff runs to have, we didn't have our two best scorers fresh, or even close to a reasonable level of freshness. they were destroyed. i blame that not only on having to face big dudes like seabrook and weber more often than they should have, but also on the fact that for the sedins, unlike most forwards except the ryan smyth and holmstrom front of the net types, o-zone shifts are harder on their bodies than neutral zone or defensive zone shifts because their game is absorbing contact to make the play.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Okay, and? Every coach has their favourites..look no further than the coach we have right now.

Well, to be honest, Rome of that era would probably slot into our current D depth ahead of Weber, Bartkowski and probably Sbsia. Sad days.

Fortunately Willie D has never favoured a player as piss-poor as Tanner Glass. And before anyone says it, Dorsett isn't even close.

That said, regardless of coaching talent, AV was blessed with a far better team than Willie is lumbered with, no wonder people are remembering him fondly.

But if you go back to the old AV threads in this forum, people here were sick of him and, for the most part, glad to see him go... which doesn't mean he was a bad coach, more that people here are inveterate whiners.