Quebec still waiting patiently.

[Forsead]

Quebec metro is 7th in canada, Wpg is 8. List of census metropolitan areas and agglomerations in Canada - Wikipedia
You also have to consider the population out of the city that will come.

IMO, the best way to estimate the potential population that would come to Quebec City for hockey is using Quebec province regions. Start by sum the population of the following regions :

Capitale-Nationale

729,997

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Chaudière-Appalaches

420,082

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Saguenay–Lac-Saint-Jean

276,368

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

All this population live pretty much under 2h30 from Quebec city center and well served with new highways built in the last 10 years.

+ conservatively 33% of the following regions as they were pretty much splitted in allegiance when the Nords were there :

Mauricie

266,112

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Centre-du-Québec

242,399

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The majority of the population of these two regions live pretty much under 1h30 from Quebec city center and also well served with highways.

So this add up to a 1.6 million population. All the numbers are from 2016 census.

You can also add part of the regions that are in the far eastof the province, as Quebec city is the portal to Montreal anyway:

Bas-Saint-Laurent

197,385

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Côte-Nord

92,518

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Gaspésie–Îles-de-la-Madeleine

90,311

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is pretty much Nords classic population base ! Also, people needs to understand that Quebecers from regions love to do roadtrips. The Nords never had attendance issues even when they were the worst team in the league. I'm more concerned about corporative suites.

 

[cheswick]

Quebec metro is 7th in canada, Wpg is 8. List of census metropolitan areas and agglomerations in Canada - Wikipedia
You also have to consider the population out of the city that will come.

Yeah that's incorrect (its showing unadjusted census numbers) and it's outdated. Winnipeg has passed Quebec City in terms of population. Stats Can pegs Winnipeg at 832K and Quebec City at 817K in 2018.

Source: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv.action?pid=1710013501

 

[Tawnos]

What are you talking about? The NHL kept them in that division for two years and didn't attempt to block the move as a result of conference realignment troubles or travel difficulties nor were they in a rush as a result to do a snap realignment to fix the situation either.

If the NHL wasn't fine with that situation, they would've pumped the breaks on the move or tried to hammer through a change and damn the consequences as rapidly as possible.

Being fine with something =\= liking a situation. I'm sure that all things considered there are plenty of things that currently exist, or used to exist for a long while, that the NHL wish they could change in an ideal world but nonetheless are fine with the status quo as it's not worth making a ruckus over or trying to force a change through.

You're right that being fine and liking are not the same thing. At the same, not wanting to force a change through =/= being fine with it. In fact, the league tried to realign as soon as they reasonably could. They tried to realign for the 12-13 season, the first attempt of which the players rejected. That was December 5, 2011, about 6 months after the move. Governors adopt radical realignment plan

Realigning for the 11-12 season was an impossibility because they had already written the schedule when the team was sold. They were resigned to the fact of the alignment in 11-12, nothing more.

 

[Nino33]

Metro QC and within even an unreasonable driving distance still isn’t much bigger than 1 million people. Almost half the provincial population is Greater Montreal and a lot is Hull-Gatineau across the river from Ottawa. You’re vastly overestimating how favorable the demographics and geography are for QC

I wasn't really talking about demographics/geography, I responded to someone saying that Quebec City had only 75% of the population Winnipeg has, and simply pointed out the huge difference in people when comparing provinces.

If an argument against Quebec City is "Quebec City only has 75% of the population of Winnipeg" for me the millions more people in Quebec compared to Manitoba should at least be mentioned (and according to post #177 in this thread, Quebec City has 99.3% of the population of Winnipeg).

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I wasn't really talking about demographics/geography, I responded to someone saying that Quebec City had only 75% of the population Winnipeg has, and simply pointed out the huge difference in people when comparing provinces.

If an argument against Quebec City is "Quebec City only has 75% of the population of Winnipeg" for me the millions more people in Quebec compared to Manitoba should at least be mentioned (and according to post #177 in this thread, Quebec City has 99.3% of the population of Winnipeg).

The provincial population is irrelevant because the whole thing won't be part of the QC market. It's all about where they will be drawing from and a Quebec City NHL team would be lucky to draw in one third of the provincial population. Winnipeg has the entirety of Manitoba as well as sections of Northwestern Ontario and Saskatchewan, since there's no other competitors. Quebec City will be limited to the eastern Quebec, which is sparsely populated outside of Quebec City.

The number of people living in Gatineau, Metro Montreal, Sherbrooke, and the rest can't be included in an argument for Quebec City because they're already part of other NHL markets and won't leave. They're not going to cheer on a brand new team that's many hours away when there's a team much closer. Saguenay and perhaps as far as Trois Rivieres ares of the province that would become part of that QC NHL team market.

When talking about percentages of populations, you don't compare the whole state of Pennsylvania for the Flyers. Obviously, the other half of the state supports the Pens and there's a noteworthy number of people who like the Capitals in Hershey and Central PA.

 

[Forsead]

The provincial population is irrelevant because the whole thing won't be part of the QC market. It's all about where they will be drawing from and a Quebec City NHL team would be lucky to draw in one third of the provincial population. Winnipeg has the entirety of Manitoba as well as sections of Northwestern Ontario and Saskatchewan, since there's no other competitors. Quebec City will be limited to the eastern Quebec, which is sparsely populated outside of Quebec City.

The number of people living in Gatineau, Metro Montreal, Sherbrooke, and the rest can't be included in an argument for Quebec City because they're already part of other NHL markets and won't leave. They're not going to cheer on a brand new team that's many hours away when there's a team much closer. Saguenay and perhaps as far as Trois Rivieres ares of the province that would become part of that QC NHL team market.

When talking about percentages of populations, you don't compare the whole state of Pennsylvania for the Flyers. Obviously, the other half of the state supports the Pens and there's a noteworthy number of people who like the Capitals in Hershey and Central PA.

See my post, I count around 1.6 M $ for the natural market. However, using your method of calculation for the Jets, you could add 0.4M from Bas-Saint-Laurent, Gaspesie and Côte-Nord. Plus, I could see much more people from Mauricie and Centre-du-Québec than my conservative assessment (let's say 0.2M more) and also parts of Atlantic provinces (New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland). Let's remember that their total is around 2.4 M.

With 1.6M + 0.4M + 0.2M + 0.33*2.4M = +- 2.8 M for the market.

This is more population than entire Saskatchewan + entire Manitoba combined. This is only with parts of the Atlantic provinces.

Also, you're forgetting that for alot of peoples who are living in Montreal greater suburbs it will be easier/as long to go to Quebec City then to go to Montreal city center for a game. There was a significant number of Nords fans in Montreal when they were there...

Every game against Montreal would be full.

 

[Nino33]

The provincial population is irrelevant because the whole thing won't be part of the QC market.

Again, I responded to someone saying that Quebec City had only 75% of the population Winnipeg (the main point was the population in the city/nearby, and I didn't think Quebec had 25% more people than Quebec City - as far as I can tell, I was 100% right)

It's all about where they will be drawing from and a Quebec City NHL team would be lucky to draw in one third of the provincial population.

They need just 0.02% more people to match Winnipeg (literally 15K people)
You say they'll be lucky to draw a 33%, but for 15K they'd need to draw about o.2% (Your amount Quebec City would be "lucky to draw" is 165 times more than they'd need to match Winnipeg's population!)

When talking about percentages of populations, you don't compare the whole state of Pennsylvania for the Flyers. Obviously, the other half of the state supports the Pens and there's a noteworthy number of people who like the Capitals in Hershey and Central PA.

You're talking amounts of 33% and 50% and I'm talking about 0.02%



P.S. I feel like in your response to me you're combining my response with Forsead's response (I didn't state a position about Quebec City being viable or not)

 

[MXD]

The post below is the best post in this thread.

IMO, the best way to estimate the potential population that would come to Quebec City for hockey is using Quebec province regions. Start by sum the population of the following regions :

Capitale-Nationale

729,997

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Chaudière-Appalaches

420,082

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Saguenay–Lac-Saint-Jean

276,368

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

All this population live pretty much under 2h30 from Quebec city center and well served with new highways built in the last 10 years.

+ conservatively 33% of the following regions as they were pretty much splitted in allegiance when the Nords were there :

Mauricie

266,112

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Centre-du-Québec

242,399

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The majority of the population of these two regions live pretty much under 1h30 from Quebec city center and also well served with highways.

So this add up to a 1.6 million population. All the numbers are from 2016 census.

You can also add part of the regions that are in the far eastof the province, as Quebec city is the portal to Montreal anyway:

Bas-Saint-Laurent

197,385

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Côte-Nord

92,518

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Gaspésie–Îles-de-la-Madeleine

90,311

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is pretty much Nords classic population base ! Also, people needs to understand that Quebecers from regions love to do roadtrips. The Nords never had attendance issues even when they were the worst team in the league. I'm more concerned about corporative suites.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

See my post, I count around 1.6 M $ for the natural market. However, using your method of calculation for the Jets, you could add 0.4M from Bas-Saint-Laurent, Gaspesie and Côte-Nord. Plus, I could see much more people from Mauricie and Centre-du-Québec than my conservative assessment (let's say 0.2M more) and also parts of Atlantic provinces (New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland). Let's remember that their total is around 2.4 M.

With 1.6M + 0.4M + 0.2M + 0.33*2.4M = +- 2.8 M for the market.

This is more population than entire Saskatchewan + entire Manitoba combined. This is only with parts of the Atlantic provinces.

Also, you're forgetting that for alot of peoples who are living in Montreal greater suburbs it will be easier/as long to go to Quebec City then to go to Montreal city center for a game. There was a significant number of Nords fans in Montreal when they were there...

Every game against Montreal would be full.

Leave out all Atlantic Canada, they aren't going to support QC. The only people they would have a chance of getting are the remote Acadian communities. Atlantic Canada hated the Nords even when Molson was making them look like sweethearts. Population regions like Centre-du-Quebec and Mauricie are closer to Montreal, even taking into account very heavy Montreal traffic, and were slightly more pro-Canadiens (in fairness they were the border IIRC) even when the Battle of the Quebec was in full swing, they are now fully pro-Canadiens and unlikely to swing back.

As for getting Montrealers, no one is going to go from Montreal suburbs to Quebec City for a game. Even if you live well off the beaten path away from the island near like Sorel, it's still much closer than hiking up to Quebec City for a game. Nords fans were in force for Montreal games because it was their biggest rivalry and a sociopolitical battle. They're not going to travel nearly 3 hours one way as a regular attendee.

 

[Forsead]

Leave out all Atlantic Canada, they aren't going to support QC. The only people they would have a chance of getting are the remote Acadian communities. Atlantic Canada hated the Nords even when Molson was making them look like sweethearts. Population regions like Centre-du-Quebec and Mauricie are closer to Montreal, even taking into account very heavy Montreal traffic, and were slightly more pro-Canadiens (in fairness they were the border IIRC) even when the Battle of the Quebec was in full swing, they are now fully pro-Canadiens and unlikely to swing back.

As for getting Montrealers, no one is going to go from Montreal suburbs to Quebec City for a game. Even if you live well off the beaten path away from the island near like Sorel, it's still much closer than hiking up to Quebec City for a game. Nords fans were in force for Montreal games because it was their biggest rivalry and a sociopolitical battle. They're not going to travel nearly 3 hours one way as a regular attendee.

They hated the Nords because of past political issues, this context is not the case anymore. Also, there is 300k+ french speaking peoples in Atlantic Canada, I think we can safely say that they are in Quebec city market.

So we cannot take Atlantic Canada and regions like Centre-du-Quebec and Mauricie because they are Habs fans now and won't swing back, but we can say that Saskatchewan/Northern Ontario is part of Winnipeg market while they were Flames/Oilers fans for decades and as far located ? This doesn't make sense. I could also talk of french speakers from Maine.

At least for the weekends games, yes, Quebecers from everywhere will come to Quebec city. Sherbrooke is a good example, it's located at around 1h45 from Montreal without any traffic and 2h30 form Quebec city, some people will prefer to go to the later and Estrie is populated with over 300k.

Quebec city market is at least around 2M, probably up to 3M and compare favourably to the Flames, Oilers, Winnipeg and Ottawa IMO.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

They hated the Nords because of past political issues, this context is not the case anymore. Also, there is 300k+ french speaking peoples in Atlantic Canada, I think we can safely say that they are in Quebec city market.

So we cannot take Atlantic Canada and regions like Centre-du-Quebec and Mauricie because they are Habs fans now and won't swing back, but we can say that Saskatchewan/Northern Ontario is part of Winnipeg market while they were Flames/Oilers fans for decades and as far located ? This doesn't make sense. I could also talk of french speakers from Maine.

At least for the weekends games, yes, Quebecers from everywhere will come to Quebec city. Sherbrooke is a good example, it's located at around 1h45 from Montreal without any traffic and 2h30 form Quebec city, some people will prefer to go to the later and Estrie is populated with over 300k.

Quebec city market is at least around 2M, probably up to 3M and compare favourably to the Flames, Oilers, Winnipeg and Ottawa IMO.

All of these could be true and still not matter if there is little corporate support for the team in QC.

 

[Nordskull]

Hey hi, can anybody change the titre of the thread, because, really, no one is patiently waiting anymore in Quebec city. That thing is over...

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

They hated the Nords because of past political issues, this context is not the case anymore. Also, there is 300k+ french speaking peoples in Atlantic Canada, I think we can safely say that they are in Quebec city market.

So we cannot take Atlantic Canada and regions like Centre-du-Quebec and Mauricie because they are Habs fans now and won't swing back, but we can say that Saskatchewan/Northern Ontario is part of Winnipeg market while they were Flames/Oilers fans for decades and as far located ? This doesn't make sense. I could also talk of french speakers from Maine.

At least for the weekends games, yes, Quebecers from everywhere will come to Quebec city. Sherbrooke is a good example, it's located at around 1h45 from Montreal without any traffic and 2h30 form Quebec city, some people will prefer to go to the later and Estrie is populated with over 300k.

Quebec city market is at least around 2M, probably up to 3M and compare favourably to the Flames, Oilers, Winnipeg and Ottawa IMO.

They still don’t like Quebecers. You bringing up non-Quebec French speakers being drawn to the team is a great example of why the political and linguistic thing is still real. People in Halifax and Fredericton won’t be fans of a team in QC. There’s under the 100k French speakers in Atlantic Canada (5K PEI, 30K NS, 40K NFL) outside of New Brunswick, those 200k bilingual Acadians can be added, fine. For the 100K New England French speakers, most are senior citizens and are quickly dying out. They’re a non factor.

Winnipeg gets those places because they cheered for both iterations of the Jets. It’s not a double standard. The Jets were gone for 15 years, not decades like you claim.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

They still don’t like Quebecers. You bringing up non-Quebec French speakers being drawn to the team is a great example of why the political and linguistic thing is still real. People in Halifax and Fredericton won’t be fans of a team in QC. There’s under the 100k French speakers in Atlantic Canada (5K PEI, 30K NS, 40K NFL) outside of New Brunswick, those 200k bilingual Acadians can be added, fine. For the 100K New England French speakers, most are senior citizens and are quickly dying out. They’re a non factor.

Winnipeg gets those places because they cheered for both iterations of the Jets. It’s not a double standard. The Jets were gone for 15 years, not decades like you claim.

Was there a lot of hostility when the Yotes first went to Winnipeg in 2011

 

[Forsead]

They still don’t like Quebecers. You bringing up non-Quebec French speakers being drawn to the team is a great example of why the political and linguistic thing is still real. People in Halifax and Fredericton won’t be fans of a team in QC. There’s under the 100k French speakers in Atlantic Canada (5K PEI, 30K NS, 40K NFL) outside of New Brunswick, those 200k bilingual Acadians can be added, fine. For the 100K New England French speakers, most are senior citizens and are quickly dying out. They’re a non factor.

Winnipeg gets those places because they cheered for both iterations of the Jets. It’s not a double standard. The Jets were gone for 15 years, not decades like you claim.

You brought the point that you thought that only acadian would maybe cheers for Quebec, I didn't. I just said that even if it was only them, then it's still around 300k...

It's a double standard, I brought people (parts of Mauricie and parts of Centre-du-Quebec) that cheered for the Nords back then (24 years ago), so it's exactly the same situation. BTW, Jets are gone 23 years ago (1996) not 15 years and it's still more than one decade hence the s.

Maybe you shouldn't talk about political and linguistic issues, since you seems misinformed on even basic Quebec geography/demographics.

 

[Forsead]

All of these could be true and still not matter if there is little corporate support for the team in QC.

Very true and still the big potential issue in Quebec. I can assure you that the corporate sector is getting better though.

 

[FMichael]

Hey hi, can anybody change the titre of the thread, because, really, no one is patiently waiting anymore in Quebec city. That thing is over...

Sad, but true.

With Seattle getting the 32nd franchise - expansion for the NHL will be pretty much done...Only hope is for a current franchise to relocate, but it seems as though Houston, TX is already earmarked for that...The return of the Nordiques is pretty much slim to none, and that's a shame.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

You brought the point that you thought that only acadian would maybe cheers for Quebec, I didn't. I just said that even if it was only them, then it's still around 300k...

It's a double standard, I brought people (parts of Mauricie and parts of Centre-du-Quebec) that cheered for the Nords back then (24 years ago), so it's exactly the same situation. BTW, Jets are gone 23 years ago (1996) not 15 years and it's still more than one decade hence the s.

Maybe you shouldn't talk about political and linguistic issues, since you seems misinformed on even basic Quebec geography/demographics.

Hockey returned to Winnipeg in 2011 after leaving in 1996. That’s 15 years. They didn’t teach math in CÉGEP? Haha

MacKinnon and many Atlantic Canada kids refuse to play for French speaking teams in the Q. Go to Halifax or St. John’s and see for yourself. Any Nordiques 2.0 is going to be automatically a beacon for Quebec nationalism. Watch Lance at Compte and even though it’s a TV show it’s in your face still.

 

[Forsead]

Hockey returned to Winnipeg in 2011 after leaving in 1996. That’s 15 years. They didn’t teach math in CÉGEP? Haha

MacKinnon and many Atlantic Canada kids refuse to play for French speaking teams in the Q. Go to Halifax or St. John’s and see for yourself. Any Nordiques 2.0 is going to be automatically a beacon for Quebec nationalism. Watch Lance at Compte and even though it’s a TV show it’s in your face still.

My bad on the math, doesn't change any of my argument and the fact that you did a double standard, it doesn't change anything 15 or 20 years. Show me where it's different!

Yeah, I guess you're an expert in Quebec politics....like when the biggest political beacon of Quebec nationalism was almost destroyed in the last election. Go talk to people that are 35 years old and less, nobody know about Lac Meech anymore. People doesn't care. Hockey fans from everywhere will come to Quebec city if it's the easiest place even from Atlantic.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

My bad on the math, doesn't change any of my argument and the fact that you did a double standard, it doesn't change anything 15 or 20 years. Show me where it's different!

Yeah, I guess you're an expert in Quebec politics....like when the biggest political beacon of Quebec nationalism was almost destroyed in the last election. Go talk to people that are 35 years old and less, nobody know about Lac Meech anymore. People doesn't care. Hockey fans from everywhere will come to Quebec city if it's the easiest place even from Atlantic.

There’s still anti-French sentiment in Atlantic Canada. The few hundred thousand Acadians there are bilingual because that’s the world we live in. I’m in New England, i had to learn English because that’s the world we live in, I know the about the loyalty to the fleur-de-lys but a Nords 2.0 won’t be the nostalgia trip you think it will be for millions of people.

One generation of people grew up not knowing the old Jets. That’s it. And another generation has been born and are growing up knowing Jets 2.0 That’s not long enough for any respectable portion of fans over the age of 15 to have other long lasting loyalties. We’re going on close to 25 years without the Nords. People who grew up not knowing the Nords are starting to have kids. And QC won’t get a team any time soon.

Also assuming that tons of people that are within the the easy reaches of Montreal will go back to Quebec City for a new team to gather around isn’t logical. There weren’t boatloads of Nords fans there before.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

There’s still anti-French sentiment in Atlantic Canada. The few hundred thousand Acadians there are bilingual because that’s the world we live in. I’m in New England, i had to learn English because that’s the world we live in, I know the about the loyalty to the fleur-de-lys but a Nords 2.0 won’t be the nostalgia trip you think it will be for millions of people.

One generation of people grew up not knowing the old Jets. That’s it. And another generation has been born and are growing up knowing Jets 2.0 That’s not long enough for any respectable portion of fans over the age of 15 to have other long lasting loyalties. We’re going on close to 25 years without the Nords. People who grew up not knowing the Nords are starting to have kids. And QC won’t get a team any time soon.

Also assuming that tons of people that are within the the easy reaches of Montreal will go back to Quebec City for a new team to gather around isn’t logical. There weren’t boatloads of Nords fans there before.

People overestimate how popular teams where some times when they have been gone for a long time. The whalers are far more popular defunct then they ever where when they played in ct

 

[Dynamite Kid]

Yeah, I guess you're an expert in Quebec politics....like when the biggest political beacon of Quebec nationalism was almost destroyed in the last election. Go talk to people that are 35 years old and less, nobody know about Lac Meech anymore. People doesn't care. Hockey fans from everywhere will come to Quebec city if it's the easiest place even from Atlantic.

You sir, are correct. I'm an Anglophone living in Halifax, and a LEAF fan. I would go to a few games a year. Even if the LEAFS weren't playing. Quebec would definitely draw from NB, Maine, NS and of course the Montreal area.

 

[powerstuck]

Hockey returned to Winnipeg in 2011 after leaving in 1996. That’s 15 years. They didn’t teach math in CÉGEP? Haha

MacKinnon and many Atlantic Canada kids refuse to play for French speaking teams in the Q. Go to Halifax or St. John’s and see for yourself. Any Nordiques 2.0 is going to be automatically a beacon for Quebec nationalism. Watch Lance at Compte and even though it’s a TV show it’s in your face still.

That's a very sharp double edged sword right there bud.

While it's true that MacKinnon being selected by Baie-Comeau refused to report there, it's also true that the biggest name from Atlantic, Sidney Crosby himself played all his junior in a pretty much French speaking only town (Rimouski).

Then again, MacKinnon maybe would have played for Rimouski, for Quebec, for Montreal, maybe he just didn't wanted to play for a small town that's 250 miles away from anything moderately big (Quebec City).

 

[Hal1971]

All of these could be true and still not matter if there is little corporate support for the team in QC.

I think there's a waiting list for corp Box in montreal, I think many company on the waiting list will jump on a Box in quebec. Quebec City is a big tourist attraction, so it can be a great asset to a corp in mtl to have a Box in quebec, you can easily fly or transport guess to a visit/dinning/games...

 

[powerstuck]

I think there's a waiting list for corp Box in montreal, I think many company on the waiting list will jump on a Box in quebec. Quebec City is a big tourist attraction, so it can be a great asset to a corp in mtl to have a Box in quebec, you can easily fly or transport guess to a visit/dinning/games...

Yep, there is already companies located in Quebec area who have either as a business, or on a personal level as owner of business a corporate box/season tickets for the Habs. Who says those companies wouldn't do the same for Quebec and/or quit Habs for a more regional approach in Quebec.