OT: PWHL Thread - Draft at 1pm Monday 9/18

[Ehran]

No one has a "right" to make a living playing hockey.

No one in the NHL, no one in the AHL, no one in the ECHL or the SPHL or the FPHL or anyone in the PWHPA.

If there was an actual right to make a living playing hockey, then that's what I'd be doing for a living.

Agreed.

But what if you had an employment contract stating you would make a certain salary to play hockey this upcoming season?

You don't think that changes things?

 

[Jim Bob]

Agreed.

But what if you had an employment contract stating you would make a certain salary to play hockey this upcoming season?

You don't think that changes things?

When the contract includes language that it can be voided at any time, you are at risk that it can be voided at any time…

 

[Dingo44]

Agreed.

But what if you had an employment contract stating you would make a certain salary to play hockey this upcoming season?

You don't think that changes things?

No - I agree that the PHF were screwed over and are being screwed over. They had the only existing professional league and the way the PWHPA has behaved is laughable - and the way the media has fawned over this "union" which IS NOT CERTIFIED and has never even applied for certification is just as bad.

Any investment by the NHL in a woman's league is going to be a write off - but I'd stay far away from this fiasco.

 

[Burgmania]

No - I agree that the PHF were screwed over and are being screwed over. They had the only existing professional league and the way the PWHPA has behaved is laughable - and the way the media has fawned over this "union" which IS NOT CERTIFIED and has never even applied for certification is just as bad.

Any investment by the NHL in a woman's league is going to be a write off - but I'd stay far away from this fiasco.

With respect to the union question: there is a union that has been voluntarily recognized by the new ownership group, as a majority of the members have signed cards authorizing the union to represent them.

From a US Dept of Labor blog (Research Snapshot: Why More Employers are Voluntarily Recognizing Unions.):

Q: What is voluntary recognition, and why are we seeing more of it? How does voluntary recognition affect the organizing process?​

A: When workers organize a union, they must prove to their employer that the union has the support of a majority of workers in the workplace as a bargaining representative. Most often employers force an NLRB-supervised election to show majority support, but voluntary recognition instead allows an employer to recognize the union once a majority of workers have signed cards authorizing the union to represent them.

This is important because the election process is often the most contested part of forming a union. Employers all too often wage scorched-earth campaigns against workers, engaging in legal activity like holding mandatory meetings for workers designed to convince them to change their vote as well as illegal activity like firing organizers — in fact, from 2018 to 2022, U.S. employers were charged with breaking the law in nearly 40 percent of union election campaigns. This sets a high bar for workers to clear, making it far harder for workers to exercise their right to collective bargaining.

As a result, voluntary recognition both levels the playing field for workers and gives businesses the chance to recognize workers' interest in joining a union. While it doesn't guarantee a first contract, it does allow businesses and workers to start the process more quickly and smoothly.

 

[Dingo44]

With respect to the union question: there is a union that has been voluntarily recognized by the new ownership group, as a majority of the members have signed cards authorizing the union to represent them.

From a US Dept of Labor blog (Research Snapshot: Why More Employers are Voluntarily Recognizing Unions.):

That's fair - but they didn't represent the women of the PHL - the women who had an actual employer.

I'm glad no outside group of people have claimed they are a union representing employees of my company yet excluded me and my fellow employees - and have no certification backing up their claims.

 

[Burgmania]

That's fair - but they didn't represent the women of the PHL - the women who had an actual employer.

I'm glad no outside group of people have claimed they are a union representing employees of my company yet excluded me and my fellow employees - and have no certification backing up their claims.

I absolutely get that part of it, and that's what stinks. The PHF players had an 'association', but were not recognized as a union. I really wish that was a step that had been taken.

 

[Gras]

It all depends on whether this is the precursor to the NHL getting involved or not. Now the NHL's excuse that they did not want to get involved until their is one league is gone.

If that never happens, this is a step backwards that might never allow for a step forward. But, if you look at the path that pro women's soccer has taken in North America, there have been so many of these types of fits and starts along the way to where the NWSL is today.

NHL gonna get involved so they can subsidize a league that loses money every year like the NBA does.

 

[May Day 10]

I dont think the NHL should get involved at all. It is a hornet's nest.

At some point, before long, everyone is going to demand 'equal pay' for the Women's players in relation to the NHL. It is going to be bad press and unsustainable.

 

[Burgmania]

Yesterday, the PHF fired virtually all league & team staff. I was not included in this - not because they were interested in keeping me on, but because I was considered a independent contractor and not actually on team staff.

 

[Jim Bob]

The Instigator Podcast 11.43 – The Future of Women’s Hockey Unfolds

One of the most significant stories in hockey this year is unfolding as the PHF was acquired by the Mark Walter Group in a step that will see professional women’s hockey moove forward under a…

twointhebox.com

 

[Burgmania]

The final general manager in the history of the Buffalo Beauts puts forth a 'thank you' via TBN:

Dear Fort Beaut ... Former GM Nate Oliver pens open letter to Buffalo Beauts fans

"Thank you for believing in us and supporting us for eight years. It was a short period of time, but the memories and the meaning will last a lifetime and shall forever be part of Buffalo sports lore," writes former Buffalo Beauts GM Nate Oliver.

buffalonews.com

 

[Jim Bob]

https://thehockeynews.com/womens/phf/boston-pride-owner-tells-all-on-phf-acquisition-pwhpa-animosity-and-much-more

 

[brian_griffin]

https://thehockeynews.com/womens/phf/boston-pride-owner-tells-all-on-phf-acquisition-pwhpa-animosity-and-much-more

Even if 70% of that is fully true, and the remainder fractionally true or even an outright lie, it's a pretty damning indictment of the power dynamics. I'm wholly ignorant on the history of these leagues and parties involved beyond what was alleged in the article, but it seems the current outcome could come dangerously close to the current ownership entity running the risk of killing the golden goose.

 

[Jim Bob]

Even if 70% of that is fully true, and the remainder fractionally true or even an outright lie, it's a pretty damning indictment of the power dynamics. I'm wholly ignorant on the history of these leagues and parties involved beyond what was alleged in the article, but it seems the current outcome could come dangerously close to the current ownership entity running the risk of killing the golden goose.

The dynamics between the two groups have been pretty toxic since the PWHPA left the NWHL.

The headscratcher to me is that whatever the new league's name will be, the salaries are worse than what the PHF had committed to for 2023-24. Along with fewer paying jobs for pro women's ice hockey athletes, this seems to be a sizable step back in the short term with hope for a sizable step forward if they can convince the NHL to get involved soon.

If the NHL continues to stay away from the pro women's game, this could be a move that hinders the development of the pro women's hockey game for an undetermined amount of time.

And having watched all sorts of issues of the same variety in pro women's soccer prior to the NWSL finally taking hold, it would not shock me at all if this league folds in the next five years.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

https://thehockeynews.com/womens/phf/boston-pride-owner-tells-all-on-phf-acquisition-pwhpa-animosity-and-much-more

Nothing I read here - and admittedly I don't have time to read the whole thing - convinces me that this will benefit women's hockey anytime in the next 5 years. In fact it all just makes me feel very sad for the NWHL/PHF players.

 

[Jim Bob]

Nothing I read here - and admittedly I don't have time to read the whole thing - convinces me that this will benefit women's hockey anytime in the next 5 years. In fact it all just makes me feel very sad for the NWHL/PHF players.

If getting to one league means that the NHL does jump in within the next year or two, that will be a massive step forward.

That has been the gamble that the PWHPA have been making since the split. Now we will see if that pays off. Or not.

 

[brian_griffin]

The dynamics between the two groups have been pretty toxic since the PWHPA left the NWHL.

The headscratcher to me is that whatever the new league's name will be, the salaries are worse than what the PHF had committed to for 2023-24. Along with fewer paying jobs for pro women's ice hockey athletes, this seems to be a sizable step back in the short term with hope for a sizable step forward if they can convince the NHL to get involved soon.

If the NHL continues to stay away from the pro women's game, this could be a move that hinders the development of the pro women's hockey game for an undetermined amount of time.

And having watched all sorts of issues of the same variety in pro women's soccer prior to the NWSL finally taking hold, it would not shock me at all if this league folds in the next five years.

Nothing I read here - and admittedly I don't have time to read the whole thing - convinces me that this will benefit women's hockey anytime in the next 5 years. In fact it all just makes me feel very sad for the NWHL/PHF players.

If getting to one league means that the NHL does jump in within the next year or two, that will be a massive step forward.

That has been the gamble that the PWHPA have been making since the split. Now we will see if that pays off. Or not.

Your interpretations match mine. So either we think alike, or the interview / "testimony" was convincing in that regard, or both.

I will simply opine that either "low-balling" or more dramatically "two-tiering" the potential player participants, whether they are national team candidates or the potential "dregs" of the league, while obtaining the mutually desired goal of all parties (both women's leagues, NHL, players, other investors) likely matters not in the eyes of the NHL. Whether the women receive 36%, 42%, 50%, or whatever fraction of revenues in the interim before the NHL involvement likely has minimal bearing on NHL support / involvement either in the interim, or in the next stage of evolution.

Again, I have no vested interest in how this all plays out, pun intended, as I subscribe to the thesis stated on previous pages that if the sport/entertainment is of high enough quality, it will be supported. To achieve a high enough quality level, you'll need adequate critical mass of willing high-quality participants. It's no different from any other business venture, and the quasi-monopolistic nature of a singular league is secondary to the underlying economic premise.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Jim Bob]

Netflix Yet To Fully Embrace Live Sports Even as Interest Remains

After having sales talks with the Premier Lacrosse League and bidding on F1 last year, Netflix has yet to make the leap into live sports.

frontofficesports.com

This could potentially be interesting for the Pro Women's Hockey League To Be Named Later.

 

[brian_griffin]

Netflix Yet To Fully Embrace Live Sports Even as Interest Remains

After having sales talks with the Premier Lacrosse League and bidding on F1 last year, Netflix has yet to make the leap into live sports.

frontofficesports.com

This was supposed to happen in 2017. Maybe Netflix will finally give the people what they want...

 

[Jim Bob]

PWHL confirms the cities for league’s first six teams

Boston, Minnesota, Montreal, New York, Ottawa, and Toronto will make up the PWHL’s “Original Six”, with free agency and the...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

The Professional Women’s Hockey League has confirmed the locations of their first six teams: Boston, Minnesota, Montreal, New York, Ottawa, and Toronto.

 

[tehLerch]

PWHL confirms the cities for league’s first six teams

Boston, Minnesota, Montreal, New York, Ottawa, and Toronto will make up the PWHL’s “Original Six”, with free agency and the...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

I saw that this morning too. I live in Boston so I will still get to see the teams play but I’m really sad Buffalo doesn’t have a team anymore.

 

[Jim Bob]

What we learned about new PWHL: Franchises, key dates, draft, Brian Burke​

Friday, Sept. 1: Free agency opens

During this 10-day window, each franchise can officially sign three players to standard player agreements. These veteran players will form the foundations of each club, and as a result will not be part of the draft. Players currently in the NCAA or those graduating from U Sports programs are not eligible to sign with a team during this period. The deadline for this initial free agency window is Sept. 10.

Sunday, Sept. 3: Deadline for prospective players to declare for PWHL draft

Hefford outlined the league’s efforts, via a nine-member player evaluation committee, to identify a pool of more than 300 of the most talented players around the world. What happens next is up to the players, who were informed Monday night of the league’s operations and timelines. Players who wish to declare themselves eligible to be drafted to one of the PWHL’s six teams must do so by Sept. 3. Players do not have to have been included on the initial 300-plus list of names to seek eligibility.

Sunday, Sept. 10: End of initial free agency period


By this time, each franchise will have signed three core players, with the focus then turning to the draft to fill out the rest of the training camp roster.

Monday, Sept. 18: PWHL Draft

The first-ever PWHL player draft will take place in Toronto on Sept. 18. The draft will run 15 rounds deep. Draft order will be determined by a lottery, and will follow a snake-draft format (the team picking last in Round 1 will select first in Round 2).

By the end of draft day, teams will each have 18 players — three pre-draft free agent signings and 15 draftees. All undrafted players will become free agents immediately after the draft and can thus sign a standard player agreement with any team.

Training camp rosters, which each must have a minimum of 28 players, will be fleshed out through this second free agency period and via negotiated tryouts.

After a team drafts a player, that team holds the player’s signing rights for two years. If a contract is not signed during that time, the player can become eligible again to be drafted. A player can declare for a maximum of two drafts.

Week of Nov. 13: Training camps open, teams finalize rosters

As outlined by Hefford, each team must bring at least 28 players to training camp, and cannot have more than 20 players signed before camp opens.


The timing of these camps means franchises will have about six weeks between the first strides at practice and the start of the 2023-24 regular season, which is set to begin in January. (No date was specified.)

By the end of training camp, each team must cut its roster to 23 players.

As negotiated in the CBA, which was ratified earlier this summer, player contracts will be valued between $35,000 and $80,000 annually. While the majority of contracts will feature one- or two-year terms, each franchise is required to sign six players to three-year deals valued at $80,000 each.

January 2024: Inaugural PWHL season begins

Kasten was not able to specify a date for puck drop on the PWHL, but he indicated January 2024 — and that very likely means the early days of the new year as opposed to the end of the month — remains the target for the start of play.

A full schedule is expected to be released sometime in October.

 

[Jim Bob]