News Article: Puck Daddy Article: Most Disappointing Events for the Blues

[2 Minute Minor]

The EJ trade was a big move, but in hindsight I think the return is less important than the addition of moving him out of the defensive depth chart so that Pietro could be the man. Shattenkirk is a nice piece, and I think he has a ceiling we haven't quite seen yet, but he's really the only lasting asset at this point (since the picks were traded, I don't really count Rattie as a plus here).

I feel about EJ like I did about The Phantom Menace. I really really wanted it to be great. I looked hard for little things to be positive about. I was in denial at how disappointing it was. Finally, the Jar Jar Binks in EJ can no longer be ignored. I'm glad he was moved. His fanbase seems to appreciate him for what he is (in Colorado) so I think it was a win-win all the way around.

But a 1st overall pick should have provided the Blues with a star caliber player with a long tenure, someone to build around. I give Armstrong a lot of credit for having the balls to pull the trigger on that trade, and conceding that Erik Johnson was never going to be that player for the Blues.

 

[Note Worthy]

You mean the fire engine red jerseys? LOL

I don't blame them for trying to change it up. Just a blue note is boring. They need to put the Arch on a jersey! It is known worldwide but the bluenote isn't!

Say what....?

The Blue note is beautiful. They don't need to clutter it up with other stuff. Just let the Note shine. It's one of the best logos in sports.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The golf cart incident had a lot to do with EJ not becoming the superstar we expected. He was an athletic freak his rookie season.

Well it's not his knee that been his issues. It's his lack of hockey sense, not being able to get his booming shot on net, and his lack of physical/mean play that he showed leading up to the draft. He is a product of being a man-child against teens his own age, with scouts thinking it will translate, but in reality it never did.

 

[Multimoodia]

As far as EJ's knees go, I do think part of what has held him back is the knee injury...but a lot is just him.
He reacts well...but he's never really (I hate using this term) pro-active.

I never see him driving an opposing player to an area where they'll make a mistake, I never see him jump a passing lane, I never see him feint and take away space.
He just reacts.

I'm not sure if that's a limitation of hockey sense, or it's a lack of confidence, or what...but it's there anyway.

If it is a lack of confidence and he ever sorts himself out...he'll be that #1 everyone thought he would be.
Of course, if Berglund ever did the same thing the Blues wouldn't have had to sign Stastny, so...

 

[simon IC]

I really, really wanted EJ to be the guy. I had so much hope when he was drafted. The whole draft, injury, not living up to expectations and subsequent trade still hurt. From a personal standpoint, yes he was the biggest disappointment for this franchise in my eyes. I don't want to say EJ himself is a disappointment. I'm sure he's a great guy and a good hockey player who will probably have a good career, but from a franchise pespective, a bitter, bitter disappointment.

 

[BladesofSTEELwFIRE]

What about the fact that the Blues could've drafted Toews instead of EJ? Some Blues fans have told me it set the franchise back decades for that huge mistake!

That might be hyperbole but would the Blues have won a Cup by now with Toews are at least gotten to a Cup? No doubt they would be a lot better!

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I'm unconvinced. I've torn an ACL and rehabbed. I've watched elite athletes do it and return to form. I think the golf cart incident is being scapegoated, but what I see as his limitation is a lot more between the ears than the stability of his knee.

I don't think it was the physical injury so much as the lost development time. Taking an entire year off can't be good for anybody's development, let alone for a guy who is dumb as a bag of hammers. Well that, and the fact that he never played as punishing as he should have. The man is a giant, he should have been manhandling people.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

What about the fact that the Blues could've drafted Toews instead of EJ? Some Blues fans have told me it set the franchise back decades for that huge mistake!

That might be hyperbole but would the Blues have won a Cup by now with Toews are at least gotten to a Cup? No doubt they would be a lot better!

That's why you don't ever take a Defenseman or a Goalie 1st overall I could care less how good he is. And that why we call it the Blues around these parts.

 

[Note Worthy]

What about the fact that the Blues could've drafted Toews instead of EJ? Some Blues fans have told me it set the franchise back decades for that huge mistake!

That might be hyperbole but would the Blues have won a Cup by now with Toews are at least gotten to a Cup? No doubt they would be a lot better!

Erik Johnson was the consensus number one and was suppose to be the next Pronger-esque player. If Chicago or Pittsburgh had the number one overall pick they would have selected him as well. It's not the Blues fault that things happened and he didn't pan out.

As for having Toews on our team and having a Cup...I don't know, maybe. A Toews/Backes 1-2 punch would be pretty awesome. But we don't have Kane and a host of other players the Hawks have so it's not a guarantee we would have a Cup by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[DeuceNine]

All three are management decisions IMO:

1. The whole Stevens thing really neutered us for the following decade. During the 90s, anyone had a shot at the Cup and especially us, coming off a huge season prior to this happening. All we got out of Shanny was the ability to keep us afloat via his overachievement and play with Hull. Parlaying him into Pronger got us a few great regular seasons.

2. The infamous Butcher trade. Why we didn't have a new GM 10 minutes after that went down I'll never know. Absolutely gutted our core. Vancouver shockingly made the Finals two years later (see the above point), effectively with a bunch of our old guys leading the way.

3. Last year. I'm not laying this at Miller's feet -- I'm laying it at the feet of Armstrong and the team for underachieving in general. We had Chicago's number most of the year and there was no reason why we lose to them. From there, we smoke the Wild and have our shot at revenge against the Kings. I think we come through against them, then the Rangers would have fallen as the weakest team we would have faced in the postseason.

 

[timtindall]

Mike Danton. Letting Demitra go. Trading Pronger. Pretty much when they took a knife, and gutted the team.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Picking EJ over Toews is one that really burns me. Maybe since it's still so current, but Toews is arguably the best overall player in the NHL today. Compare that with EJ, who's ceiling seems pretty set at Top 4 D-man. Not Top 2, or legit #1 D-man, but Top 4. That's not even mentioning he's not playing for our team anymore, while Toews will be a Hawk for life. That's a huge franchise altering moment that we whiffed on, which will have a negative impact on our franchise for a solid 15-20 years. I don't think anything else on this list has that long lasting of an impact:

Keenan was bad, yes, but he was gone fairly quickly.

Pronger was over 30 when we traded him.

Losing to teams due to bad play or goalie meltdowns really only affected those seasons.

The Vancouver trade really only affected that season, and maybe the next 2-3 seasons after it.

The Stevens debacle was really a two-parter, so you can't blame losing five first round picks and then also losing Stevens for Shanahan as the "same moment." Besides, with our drafting record up to that point, wouldn't you have rather traded 5 years of 1sts for a Hart Trophy winning Captain of your team D-man? I mean, that's what we thought we were drafting in EJ right?

But the Toews mistake is going to haunt us until he retires and goes into the HHOF with a Blackhawks logo next to his name. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if he had been drafted to the East, but he didn't; he went to our oldest and bitterest division rival.

Also, this whole post is about hindsight. Please don't bring up the EJ was the consensus #1 pick type stuff. I'm sure we had plenty of people happy when we brought on Keenan, a recent Stanley Cup winning coach to run our organization at the time it happened. No one knew he would run the place into the ground. No one knew we would have to give up Stevens when we signed Shanny. So clearly, no one knew Toews would be in the top 3 for best overall player in the NHL vs. I'm a huge bust Erik Johnson. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the reasoning behind the choices we made don't matter to me in this discussion, only the results of said choices.

 

[Note Worthy]

The reason people, like myself, are bringing up Johnson being the consensus number one is because I've heard countless times from people that our organization was so stupid for picking Johnson over Toews when most of those people weren't fans of the team in 06 during that draft and have no idea that Johnson was suppose to be better that Toews.

It's like those certain people knew Toews was going to turn out the way and he did and same for Johnson and wonder how could we pick one over the other.

Those are people I'm referring to with the consensus number one talk. It's relevant.

 

[BladesofSTEELwFIRE]

I agree Toews will haunt the Blues for years but I also agree he is no guarantee of a Cup. If the Blues got Toews instead of EJ they would've likely gone to 1 or 2 conference finals and maybe a Cup.

Remember the Blues have a lot of playoff demons to slay!

 

[Note Worthy]

I agree Toews will haunt the Blues for years but I also agree he is no guarantee of a Cup. If the Blues got Toews instead of EJ they would've likely gone to 1 or 2 conference finals and maybe a Cup.

Remember the Blues have a lot of playoff demons to slay!

Not too mention the Hawks' other players. The supporting cast Toews had was a big reason for both Cups.

We don't have Kane, Hossa, Keith, etc...

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Not too mention the Hawks' other players. The supporting cast Toews had was a big reason for both Cups.

We don't have Kane, Hossa, Keith, etc...

Never did I say that drafting Toews would win us a Cup. I get that Toews has a really good supporting cast around him in Chicago, but you can't argue the difference in talent and gamebreaking ability between Toews and EJ. Toews is in my top 5 overall best players in the NHL, EJ can't even crack a top pairing on a team with a below average defense. The topic is most disappointing events for the Blues. To me, having the #1 overall pick and whiffing on it as badly as we did in 06 is the one that hurts the most, since the outcome was us getting a servicable-at-best player (that we at least flipped into a better asset before everyone realized how worthless EJ was) and our #1 division rival getting one of the best players in the NHL today, who also was pretty darn instrumental in winning two Cups for said franchise.

 

[Note Worthy]

Never did I say that drafting Toews would win us a Cup. I get that Toews has a really good supporting cast around him in Chicago, but you can't argue the difference in talent and gamebreaking ability between Toews and EJ. Toews is in my top 5 overall best players in the NHL, EJ can't even crack a top pairing on a team with a below average defense. The topic is most disappointing events for the Blues. To me, having the #1 overall pick and whiffing on it as badly as we did in 06 is the one that hurts the most, since the outcome was us getting a servicable-at-best player (that we at least flipped into a better asset before everyone realized how worthless EJ was) and our #1 division rival getting one of the best players in the NHL today, who also was pretty darn instrumental in winning two Cups for said franchise.

I...didn't say you did...?

I agree in hindsight Johnson over Toews is a disappointment, obviously.

 

[BladesofSTEELwFIRE]

Agree with all you guys but NO DOUBT the Blues would be a lot better with Toews instead of EJ even if it didn't result in a Cup!

 

[SteenMachine]

But guys we don't know how Toews would have handled a golf cart accident, we need to get to the stuff that really matters!

 

[2 Minute Minor]

But guys we don't know how Toews would have handled a golf cart accident, we need to get to the stuff that really matters!

Actually, without getting into character questions too deeply, I think we DO know how Toewes would have been carrying himself in the exact same situation. At least I think I know....and the end result is not a knee injury.

I don't see how the team would have Pietro if they'd drafted Toewes. The rest of the build from that point on would have fallen differently, so its pretty useless to try and project the current roster with Toewes as a Cup contender. That's not the team we'd see anyway.

How bout this:
Would you rather have Stastny and Pietro, or Toewes and whatever best UFA defenseman you could snag in the past 3 seasons?

 

[Multimoodia]

Would you rather have Stastny and Pietro, or Toewes and whatever best UFA defenseman you could snag in the past 3 seasons?

Toews and Suter would have been pretty expensive.

*edit*

Actually I rescind that. Blues would have drafted Karlsson anyway.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Actually, without getting into character questions too deeply, I think we DO know how Toews would have been carrying himself in the exact same situation. At least I think I know....and the end result is not a knee injury.

I don't see how the team would have Pietro if they'd drafted Toews. The rest of the build from that point on would have fallen differently, so its pretty useless to try and project the current roster with Toews as a Cup contender. That's not the team we'd see anyway.

How bout this:
Would you rather have Stastny and Pietro, or Toews and whatever best UFA defenseman you could snag in the past 3 seasons?

True, we might not get AP, but in a vacuum I'd still take Toews over AP straight up today. Even with his crazy cap number. I also think we'd get Karlsson or Carlson from that draft. Who would you rather have? Toews and Karlsson and a 1st in 2011 or AP and Shatty and a 2nd in 2011? Now that we know Stewart was a bust, we basically traded EJ AND a 1st for Shatty and a 2nd. So, in other words, we had to ADD TO OUR #1 OVERALL PICK for an upgrade at the same position. Yeeeeccch.

In 2011, Dougie Hamilton, Jonas Brodin, Duncan Siemens, and Ryan Murphy were taken in order b/t 9-12. We would have had the 11th pick. We could have traded up a bit if we really valued one of those guys over the other, not to mention we would still have two 2nds to go with Jaskin and perhaps Rattie or Edmundson. Plus Ryan Suter was on the market, but I don't really believe for a second he was going anywhere other then Minnesota.

 

[Tryblot]

We probably wouldn't have Schwartz or Tarasenko though.

 

[Multimoodia]

I made a joke regarding Karlsson. The Blues wouldn't have picked him, they would have chosen...probably Teubert or Myers. Presuming the Blues and Blackhawks switch spots in the 2008 draft of course.


So is Myers + Toews worth Pietrangelo?
How about Teubert + Toews?

Either way the Blues wouldn't have their #1 defenseman.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

True, we might not get AP, but in a vacuum I'd still take Toews over AP straight up today. Even with his crazy cap number. I also think we'd get Karlsson or Carlson from that draft. Who would you rather have? Toews and Karlsson and a 1st in 2011 or AP and Shatty and a 2nd in 2011? Now that we know Stewart was a bust, we basically traded EJ AND a 1st for Shatty and a 2nd. So, in other words, we had to ADD TO OUR #1 OVERALL PICK for an upgrade at the same position. Yeeeeccch.

In 2011, Dougie Hamilton, Jonas Brodin, Duncan Siemens, and Ryan Murphy were taken in order b/t 9-12. We would have had the 11th pick. We could have traded up a bit if we really valued one of those guys over the other, not to mention we would still have two 2nds to go with Jaskin and perhaps Rattie or Edmundson. Plus Ryan Suter was on the market, but I don't really believe for a second he was going anywhere other then Minnesota.

I'm not convinced the Blues would have Karlsson...but say they DID draft him, I'm wondering what his development under Hitchcock would look like. Or Subban for that matter.