OT: Provorov comparison to CP 55

[Xerloris]

Pietrangelos consistently been a top 5-10 two way defenceman in the league. He was also our captain of our cup team and scored the GWG in game 7. The domino effect of keeping pietrangelo couldve meant no Faulk, no Krug and instead of losing Dunn to Seattle, we lose Edmunson most likely. Not only is he a large upgrade on those two, our team is most likely in way better shape overall

And our D-core is something along the lines of:
Dunn-Petro
Leddy/xxx-Parayko
Scandella-Peru/Bortz

We were not going to keep Eddy, that's why he was traded right after arbitration. So we would have lost Dunn in the expansion draft anyway and more than likely we would still have Krug because he was he best LD available at the time and we needed a LD. Your fantasy sucks. So once again, we're left with our defense sucking ass this year and people bitching about Pietrangelo on top of Krug and Parayko. You know, just like we did when we had him. My final point still stands, Pietrangelo ALONE is not so much better than our current top 2 RD that we would be a contender. The left side is TO f***ING WEAK.

 

[GoldenSeal]

We were not going to keep Eddy, that's why he was traded right after arbitration. So we would have lost Dunn in the expansion draft anyway and more than likely we would still have Krug because he was he best LD available at the time and we needed a LD. Your fantasy sucks. So once again, we're left with our defense sucking ass this year and people bitching about Pietrangelo on top of Krug and Parayko. You know, just like we did when we had him. My final point still stands, Pietrangelo ALONE is not so much better than our current top 2 RD that we would be a contender. The left side is TO f***ING WEAK

You can shelter the left side if you got a 1LD like oh I don’t know, Pie.

Kinda the point here. Thinking you can replace that without a plan is the worst asset management. Those types of players you pay, NTC them and be happy you got them.

Now we need to find something we had and basically ally bandaid it unless we draft one and that’s a 3-5 year situation before they get called up full time.

 

[Xerloris]

You can shelter the left side if you got a 1LD like oh I don’t know, Pie.

Kinda the point here. Thinking you can replace that without a plan is the worst asset management. Those types of players you pay, NTC them and be happy you got them.

Now we need to find something we had and basically ally bandaid it unless we draft one and that’s a 3-5 year situation before they get called up full time.

Funny you say you can shelter the left side but who did Pietrangelo ever shelter? He's always had some decent partners on the left and then we had to go out and get him a #1 LD in Jbo. He was a good player but f*** sake, he was not some god like you crazies are making him out to be.

 

[Reality Czech]

We didn't walk away from anyone, he walked away from us.

Petro didn't walk away from us, he took a PJ to Vegas away from us (likely giving the finger to the entire St. Louis area from the window of the plane as he flew off into the sunset).

Faulk was willing to commit here long-term while Petro wasn't. It's as simple as that. What's done is done, not sure the point of bringing up the past on a daily basis.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Petro didn't walk away from us, he took a PJ to Vegas away from us (likely giving the finger to the entire St. Louis area from the window of the plane as he flew off into the sunset).

When people say things like this, it reminds me how it's not just the Pietrangelo romanticizers that need to get over the whole situation.

 

[DatDude44]

We were not going to keep Eddy, that's why he was traded right after arbitration. So we would have lost Dunn in the expansion draft anyway and more than likely we would still have Krug because he was he best LD available at the time and we needed a LD. Your fantasy sucks. So once again, we're left with our defense sucking ass this year and people bitching about Pietrangelo on top of Krug and Parayko. You know, just like we did when we had him. My final point still stands, Pietrangelo ALONE is not so much better than our current top 2 RD that we would be a contender. The left side is TO f***ING WEAK.

Lmao keep convincing yourself two quarters equal a dollar. You’re the one living in a fantasy here man. Agree with your last sentence though.

 

[Reality Czech]

When people say things like this, it reminds me how it's not just the Pietrangelo romanticizers that need to get over the whole situation.

Relax, it's just a joke. I'm just tired of the narrative that we "let Petro walk" as if he had no say in the matter. It takes two to tango as they say. I'm definitely over Petro leaving but people still complaining about it 3 years later seems like crying over spilled milk at this point.

But I won't say any more, not in this thread at least. Let's get back to the Provorov vs Parayko discussion.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Pietrangelos consistently been a top 5-10 two way defenceman in the league. He was also our captain of our cup team and scored the GWG in game 7. The domino effect of keeping pietrangelo couldve meant no Faulk, no Krug and instead of losing Dunn to Seattle, we lose Edmunson most likely. Not only is he a large upgrade on those two, our team is most likely in way better shape overall

And our D-core is something along the lines of:
Dunn-Petro
Leddy/xxx-Parayko
Scandella-Peru/Bortz

And you still have the problem you do now of no one in your top 4 engaging the person camped in front of your net as JBo and Gunnarsson did.

 

[Xerloris]

Lmao keep convincing yourself two quarters equal a dollar. You’re the one living in a fantasy here man. Agree with your last sentence though.

If Parayko and Faulk are 2 quarters that most certainly does not make Pietrangelo a dollar. He's most definitely not twice as good as both of them combined and if you stop being a fan boy for 2 minutes you would know that. Having Pietrangelo added to our team means we no longer have one of Faulk or Parayko, so you have to subtract what one of them brings to have what Pietrangelo brings. So is what Pietrangelo brings so much better that he alone would make us a contender? No, he is not. If we had a left side that wasn't weak as f*** then Pietrangelo might put us into a contender category but we'd still have to overcome shittastic coaching.

 

[DatDude44]

If Parayko and Faulk are 2 quarters that most certainly does not make Pietrangelo a dollar. He's most definitely not twice as good as both of them combined and if you stop being a fan boy for 2 minutes you would know that. Having Pietrangelo added to our team means we no longer have one of Faulk or Parayko, so you have to subtract what one of them brings to have what Pietrangelo brings. So is what Pietrangelo brings so much better that he alone would make us a contender? No, he is not. If we had a left side that wasn't weak as f*** then Pietrangelo might put us into a contender category but we'd still have to overcome shittastic coaching.

lmao fanboy. You're great comic relief. The truth is, the trickle down effect from keeping petro @8.8 versus trading for faulk could've potentially allowed us to be in a position to keep Eddy and then protectDunn, im not saying it's 100% for certain, but there's a very good chance we wouldn't have felt the need to add both krug and faulk to make up for his departure, we just won a cup with rotation of Dunn, Eddy and gunnarsson rotating on petros pair with bouw-parayko as the 2nd pair. We obviously don't have a crystal ball and can't predict exactly what army would've done had we retained petro. But there's a very good chance our D-core is in a much better position if it happened, so yes, on top of pietrangelo being the much better player to faulk, it could've put us in the contender category. Why your so up in arms about us preferring the legit 1D versus a couple of 2's/3's I simply don't understand.

Obviously the hyperbole of two quarters and a dollar is an exaggeration. I'm not saying that if Krug and faulk played pietrangelo in a game of pickup that petro would beat them 1vs2 lmfaooo. I'm saying he's the far superior player to them both individually, which you cannot argue at all unless you're legitimately senile and that the trickle down effect of a legit #1 @8.8 per year would've most likely benefited us long term and potentially allowed us to retain Dunn in the expansion draft.

There's also the potential we'd be in a similiar spot with krug still and dunn in seattle, but it's a hell of alot easier to retool a broken blueline when you have a pietrangelo and parayko in place on the right side. Like Pietrangelo is in the cup final playing with alec martinez right now, I don't think it would've been too difficult to find a guy like that had we kept petro.

 

[GoldenSeal]

If Parayko and Faulk are 2 quarters that most certainly does not make Pietrangelo a dollar. He's most definitely not twice as good as both of them combined and if you stop being a fan boy for 2 minutes you would know that. Having Pietrangelo added to our team means we no longer have one of Faulk or Parayko, so you have to subtract what one of them brings to have what Pietrangelo brings. So is what Pietrangelo brings so much better that he alone would make us a contender? No, he is not. If we had a left side that wasn't weak as f*** then Pietrangelo might put us into a contender category but we'd still have to overcome shittastic coaching.

Like I said, he splits time with Colt and we don't overload him with minutes.

People keep hearing Pie and lose their mind. Take the name out of the equation and say 1D. He is a 1D and that's what need, regardless the side. Colt is a strong 2D that can occasionally play 1D minutes if he has the right pairing.

All this he walked, we let him walk nonsense is all nonsense. He wanted X, we didn't value him at X because Army demands flexibility and frugality on his side, so he left. There you go.

Now we need a 1D and some other D things. No, a 1D won't magically fix all of your problems, but the other D problems are abit easier to find and cheaper to solve if you got a legit 1D signed to the roster.

And 1D's are not the easiest or the cheapest things to find. If anything, they're the hardest to acquire without slamming your window closed quickly.

 

[Brian39]

Funny you say you can shelter the left side but who did Pietrangelo ever shelter? He's always had some decent partners on the left and then we had to go out and get him a #1 LD in Jbo. He was a good player but f*** sake, he was not some god like you crazies are making him out to be.

We "had" to get him a #1 partner in J-Bo in the sense that he "only" finished 4th in Norris voting, the team "only" allowed the fewest shots in the league, and the team "only" allowed the fewest goals in the league in the season before the Bo acquisition. Petro played 24:44 a night, which was over 3 minutes a night more than the 2nd highest (Shatty) and over 4 minutes a night more than the most-used LD (Jax, who was Shatty's year-long partner). Petro's most common partner was Carlo Colaiacovo and his 2nd most common partner was Kent Huskins. He played a whopping 94 minutes with a 22 year old Ian Cole, 93 minutes with Shatty, and 85 minutes with Jax.

It is beyond asinine to pretend that Petro didn't drag around Carlo in 2011/12 and/or that the performance of the top pair wasn't exceptional before we went out and acquired Bo. We saw an opportunity to upgrade a position of weakness for a reasonable cost and then lock that player up for several years at a reasonable cap number when we had the flexibility to do so.

Petro and Bo were a longstanding pair, staying connected at the hip (and playing exceptionally well) until 2017/18 when injuries (and the emergence of Parayko) led to Petro getting an assortment of partners again.

He finished 9th in Norris voting in 2017/18. His most frequent partner was Joel Edmundsson, followed by Carl Gunnarsson. Petro finished with 54 points, positive possession numbers and a +8 while playing 25:44 a night. Petro-Eddy was the team's most-used pair that season, faced by far the strongest competition of our pairs that season, skewed toward defensive usage and finished +4 together at 5 on 5. The team finished 3rd in shots against and 6th in goals against. Eddy-Petro and Gunnar-Petro was the team's top pair way, way more often than not, they performed well and the team as a while performed well offensively despite Bo only playing 35 games.

In 2018/19 his most-used partners were sophomore Dunn and Eddy. Bo and Parayko settled in as a full time pair this year and the their pair and Petro's pair faced almost identical quality of competition. In the playoffs, he played 100+ minutes with each of Eddy, Gunnar, and Dunn. The team finished 4th in shots against and 5th in goals against.

In 2019/20, his most-used partner was Faulk (who the entire fanbase agreed wasn't remotely good on the left side) and his next-most-used partner was Gunnar, who only played 36 games that year. Then you had Parayko as his 3rd most-used partner followed by Dunn. He finished 4th in Norris voting. The team was 4th in shots against and 6th in goals against. I think we had a damn good defensive personnel this season and I wouldn't say anyone was sheltering anyone. We weere just a very good defensive team.

During Petro's tenure here, we got effective top pair play with all of Colaiacovo, Gunnar, Eddy, and a young Dunn acting as the LD at various times. None of these guys were even remotely top pair caliber guys at the time they were playing with Petro. In the Cup run Eddy and Gunnar both had issues staying in the lineup, but we got top pair caliber play out of the Petro pairing regardless of who Berube dressed with him.

There are several examples of this team having a good top pair comprised of Petro and a #4 or #5 caliber D man.

 

[Blueston]

We "had" to get him a #1 partner in J-Bo in the sense that he "only" finished 4th in Norris voting, the team "only" allowed the fewest shots in the league, and the team "only" allowed the fewest goals in the league in the season before the Bo acquisition. Petro played 24:44 a night, which was over 3 minutes a night more than the 2nd highest (Shatty) and over 4 minutes a night more than the most-used LD (Jax, who was Shatty's year-long partner). Petro's most common partner was Carlo Colaiacovo and his 2nd most common partner was Kent Huskins. He played a whopping 94 minutes with a 22 year old Ian Cole, 93 minutes with Shatty, and 85 minutes with Jax.

It is beyond asinine to pretend that Petro didn't drag around Carlo in 2011/12 and/or that the performance of the top pair wasn't exceptional before we went out and acquired Bo. We saw an opportunity to upgrade a position of weakness for a reasonable cost and then lock that player up for several years at a reasonable cap number when we had the flexibility to do so.

Petro and Bo were a longstanding pair, staying connected at the hip (and playing exceptionally well) until 2017/18 when injuries (and the emergence of Parayko) led to Petro getting an assortment of partners again.

He finished 9th in Norris voting in 2017/18. His most frequent partner was Joel Edmundsson, followed by Carl Gunnarsson. Petro finished with 54 points, positive possession numbers and a +8 while playing 25:44 a night. Petro-Eddy was the team's most-used pair that season, faced by far the strongest competition of our pairs that season, skewed toward defensive usage and finished +4 together at 5 on 5. The team finished 3rd in shots against and 6th in goals against. Eddy-Petro and Gunnar-Petro was the team's top pair way, way more often than not, they performed well and the team as a while performed well offensively despite Bo only playing 35 games.

In 2018/19 his most-used partners were sophomore Dunn and Eddy. Bo and Parayko settled in as a full time pair this year and the their pair and Petro's pair faced almost identical quality of competition. In the playoffs, he played 100+ minutes with each of Eddy, Gunnar, and Dunn. The team finished 4th in shots against and 5th in goals against.

In 2019/20, his most-used partner was Faulk (who the entire fanbase agreed wasn't remotely good on the left side) and his next-most-used partner was Gunnar, who only played 36 games that year. Then you had Parayko as his 3rd most-used partner followed by Dunn. He finished 4th in Norris voting. The team was 4th in shots against and 6th in goals against. I think we had a damn good defensive personnel this season and I wouldn't say anyone was sheltering anyone. We weere just a very good defensive team.

During Petro's tenure here, we got effective top pair play with all of Colaiacovo, Gunnar, Eddy, and a young Dunn acting as the LD at various times. None of these guys were even remotely top pair caliber guys at the time they were playing with Petro. In the Cup run Eddy and Gunnar both had issues staying in the lineup, but we got top pair caliber play out of the Petro pairing regardless of who Berube dressed with him.

There are several examples of this team having a good top pair comprised of Petro and a #4 or #5 caliber D man.

There you go with your facts again!

I will rip Petro for how he handled his negotiations/exit/bs as much as anyone, but the guy can play. he was great with carlo, great with gunnar, would i expect even have been great with miko. he has been a top 10 defenseman in the NHL for basically the past dozen years. That ain't nothing. Parayko and Faulk are very good, but Petro was better. How much better and for how much longer we can i guess debate, but he has been his team's top defenseman pretty much since he was a full-time nhl player. And not finding way to extend him was clearly, in hindsight and probably in foresight, a significant mistake.

But he is gone and we are retooling and everyone harping on him is way beyond getting old!!!

 

[Xerloris]

We "had" to get him a #1 partner in J-Bo in the sense that he "only" finished 4th in Norris voting, the team "only" allowed the fewest shots in the league, and the team "only" allowed the fewest goals in the league in the season before the Bo acquisition. Petro played 24:44 a night, which was over 3 minutes a night more than the 2nd highest (Shatty) and over 4 minutes a night more than the most-used LD (Jax, who was Shatty's year-long partner). Petro's most common partner was Carlo Colaiacovo and his 2nd most common partner was Kent Huskins. He played a whopping 94 minutes with a 22 year old Ian Cole, 93 minutes with Shatty, and 85 minutes with Jax.

It is beyond asinine to pretend that Petro didn't drag around Carlo in 2011/12 and/or that the performance of the top pair wasn't exceptional before we went out and acquired Bo. We saw an opportunity to upgrade a position of weakness for a reasonable cost and then lock that player up for several years at a reasonable cap number when we had the flexibility to do so.

Petro and Bo were a longstanding pair, staying connected at the hip (and playing exceptionally well) until 2017/18 when injuries (and the emergence of Parayko) led to Petro getting an assortment of partners again.

He finished 9th in Norris voting in 2017/18. His most frequent partner was Joel Edmundsson, followed by Carl Gunnarsson. Petro finished with 54 points, positive possession numbers and a +8 while playing 25:44 a night. Petro-Eddy was the team's most-used pair that season, faced by far the strongest competition of our pairs that season, skewed toward defensive usage and finished +4 together at 5 on 5. The team finished 3rd in shots against and 6th in goals against. Eddy-Petro and Gunnar-Petro was the team's top pair way, way more often than not, they performed well and the team as a while performed well offensively despite Bo only playing 35 games.

In 2018/19 his most-used partners were sophomore Dunn and Eddy. Bo and Parayko settled in as a full time pair this year and the their pair and Petro's pair faced almost identical quality of competition. In the playoffs, he played 100+ minutes with each of Eddy, Gunnar, and Dunn. The team finished 4th in shots against and 5th in goals against.

In 2019/20, his most-used partner was Faulk (who the entire fanbase agreed wasn't remotely good on the left side) and his next-most-used partner was Gunnar, who only played 36 games that year. Then you had Parayko as his 3rd most-used partner followed by Dunn. He finished 4th in Norris voting. The team was 4th in shots against and 6th in goals against. I think we had a damn good defensive personnel this season and I wouldn't say anyone was sheltering anyone. We weere just a very good defensive team.

During Petro's tenure here, we got effective top pair play with all of Colaiacovo, Gunnar, Eddy, and a young Dunn acting as the LD at various times. None of these guys were even remotely top pair caliber guys at the time they were playing with Petro. In the Cup run Eddy and Gunnar both had issues staying in the lineup, but we got top pair caliber play out of the Petro pairing regardless of who Berube dressed with him.

There are several examples of this team having a good top pair comprised of Petro and a #4 or #5 caliber D man.

Tell me how Pietrangelo controls what his partner does on the ice? His partner had to have some form of competency while you're acting like they're imbeciles that had no business being in the league. Not as skilled does not mean worthless, it just means not as skilled. It's strange how all of these years you want to rattle off stats of how good Pietrangelo was came during the years of Hitchcock hockey where the entire team played defense 1st hockey. No, no, it was all Pietrangelo, he held the opponents to the lowest shots while he was on the bench. His sheer presence Made opponents unable to functions in our defensive zone. It had nothing to do with the entire team shutting them down. Nothing, Pietrangelo and Pietrangelo alone did it.

You are correct about Jbo though. We had the opportunity to upgrade a weak spot and we did it. So why today do people act like Parayko shouldn't have a competent partner and needing one makes him weak? Would Pietrangelo be able to play Parayko's minutes in the same usage with Krug as his partner?

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

lmao fanboy. You're great comic relief. The truth is, the trickle down effect from keeping petro @8.8 versus trading for faulk could've potentially allowed us to be in a position to keep Eddy and then protectDunn, im not saying it's 100% for certain, but there's a very good chance we wouldn't have felt the need to add both krug and faulk to make up for his departure, we just won a cup with rotation of Dunn, Eddy and gunnarsson rotating on petros pair with bouw-parayko as the 2nd pair. We obviously don't have a crystal ball and can't predict exactly what army would've done had we retained petro. But there's a very good chance our D-core is in a much better position if it happened, so yes, on top of pietrangelo being the much better player to faulk, it could've put us in the contender category. Why your so up in arms about us preferring the legit 1D versus a couple of 2's/3's I simply don't understand.

Upgrading Edmundson to Faulk was perfectly fine. Ed clearly wasn't in the plans for the future and was going to walk in FA given how contract negotiations had been, and Bokk has been a bust. Turning those into a top pairing D is an easy win, in hindsight, Faulk clearly struggled to find his footing, especially when being tasked to play on the left side a lot.

 

[Stealth JD]

Petro was consistently great in the playoffs. Every year he was one of the best performers on the club, and it's no surprise he's one game away from another Cup. The guy is an all situations, bona-fide #1D capable of carrying a pairing and anchoring an entire defensive corps. Annually for the past dozen or so years he's been on the short-list of best two-way defensemen in the league and when all is said and done he'll probably have his jersey retired in two cities and be enshrined into the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Tell me how Pietrangelo controls what his partner does on the ice? His partner had to have some form of competency while you're acting like they're imbeciles that had no business being in the league. Not as skilled does not mean worthless, it just means not as skilled. It's strange how all of these years you want to rattle off stats of how good Pietrangelo was came during the years of Hitchcock hockey where the entire team played defense 1st hockey. No, no, it was all Pietrangelo, he held the opponents to the lowest shots while he was on the bench. His sheer presence Made opponents unable to functions in our defensive zone. It had nothing to do with the entire team shutting them down. Nothing, Pietrangelo and Pietrangelo alone did it.

You are correct about Jbo though. We had the opportunity to upgrade a weak spot and we did it. So why today do people act like Parayko shouldn't have a competent partner and needing one makes him weak? Would Pietrangelo be able to play Parayko's minutes in the same usage with Krug as his partner?

I can't tell if this is a parody account or not. Some of the stuff that comes from this wonderland of thoughts is truly remarkable.

 

[Xerloris]

Petro was consistently great in the playoffs. Every year he was one of the best performers on the club, and it's no surprise he's one game away from another Cup. The guy is an all situations, bona-fide #1D capable of carrying a pairing and anchoring an entire defensive corps. Annually for the past dozen or so years he's been on the short-list of best two-way defensemen in the league and when all is said and done he'll probably have his jersey retired in two cities and be enshrined into the Hockey Hall of Fame.


I can't tell if this is a parody account or not. Some of the stuff that comes from this wonderland of thoughts is truly remarkable.

Not a parody. Just sick of people here kissing some mother f***ers ass while acting like that person alone is responsible for anything good that ever happened to the team. It's f***ing pathetic and then those same people turn around and blame people like Parayko when he doesn't have nearly the same quality of help as Pietrangelo did. Entire team dedicated to defense? Pietrangelo is the reason we gave up the least amount of shots. Our entire team sucks and no one plays defense cept one poor bastard? It's all that one poor bastards fault. f***ing hypocritical bullshit. You all belong on the f***ing asylum.

Here let me give a disclaimer. Not everyone fits into the categories I just listed but some of you do and if you're mad that this might be you, it probably is.

 

[Brian39]

Tell me how Pietrangelo controls what his partner does on the ice?

He doesn't and no one has claimed otherwise. A top-tier D man reduces how much his partner has to do for the pair to have success.

His partner had to have some form of competency while you're acting like they're imbeciles that had no business being in the league.

I am absolutely not acting like that. There is a massive gap of talent/ability between being a top pair level defender and being an 'imbecile with no business in the league.'

Not as skilled does not mean worthless, it just means not as skilled.

No shit. It also is a good measurement of how a player can be lesser without being a non-NHL player.

It's strange how all of these years you want to rattle off stats of how good Pietrangelo was came during the years of Hitchcock hockey where the entire team played defense 1st hockey.

3 of the 4 years I discussed were after Hitchcock was fired. One was fully under Yeo, one was under Yeo then Berube, and the final was under Berube.

No, no, it was all Pietrangelo, he held the opponents to the lowest shots while he was on the bench. His sheer presence Made opponents unable to functions in our defensive zone. It had nothing to do with the entire team shutting them down. Nothing, Pietrangelo and Pietrangelo alone did it

Again, no one has ever argued that. What he has done is be extremely effective in #1 minutes against elite competition with a variety of #4 or #5 caliber partners. Competent NHL players who were absolutely not top pair caliber defenders.

You asked when Petro had ever being asked to shelter a partner and I provided you with multiple examples of our team having an excellent top pair composed of Pietrangelo and a partner who was very clearly not a top-pair caliber D man.

So why today do people act like Parayko shouldn't have a competent partner and needing one makes him weak?

I sure as shit am not arguing that. I have seen a very small handful of people go down that road. I have some people blocked, so I could very well be missing some. But this isn't the general consensus I do see.

I think Parayko and Faulk are #1/2 tweeners. They can either be half of a good top pair (alongside a similarly talented LD) or the anchor of a good 2nd pair with a lesser LD partner. But we haven't seen either be an effective all situations top pair alongside a #4/5 partner. There is no shame in that. They aren't paid like a guy I'd expect to do that and there are less than 20 guys in the league who can do that. That doesn't mean they are weak or trash. But it does mean that you need the left side to be better than it would need to be if you did have one of the few guys that can do it.

 

[Xerloris]

He doesn't and no one has claimed otherwise. A top-tier D man reduces how much his partner has to do for the pair to have success.

I am absolutely not acting like that. There is a massive gap of talent/ability between being a top pair level defender and being an 'imbecile with no business in the league.'

No shit. It also is a good measurement of how a player can be lesser without being a non-NHL player.

3 of the 4 years I discussed were after Hitchcock was fired. One was fully under Yeo, one was under Yeo then Berube, and the final was under Berube.

Again, no one has ever argued that. What he has done is be extremely effective in #1 minutes against elite competition with a variety of #4 or #5 caliber partners. Competent NHL players who were absolutely not top pair caliber defenders.

You asked when Petro had ever being asked to shelter a partner and I provided you with multiple examples of our team having an excellent top pair composed of Pietrangelo and a partner who was very clearly not a top-pair caliber D man.

I sure as shit am not arguing that. I have seen a very small handful of people go down that road. I have some people blocked, so I could very well be missing some. But this isn't the general consensus I do see.

I think Parayko and Faulk are #1/2 tweeners. They can either be half of a good top pair (alongside a similarly talented LD) or the anchor of a good 2nd pair with a lesser LD partner. But we haven't seen either be an effective all situations top pair alongside a #4/5 partner. There is no shame in that. They aren't paid like a guy I'd expect to do that and there are less than 20 guys in the league who can do that. That doesn't mean they are weak or trash. But it does mean that you need the left side to be better than it would need to be if you did have one of the few guys that can do it.

Let me try to word this to be more specific in my issue. Is Pietrangelo a good #1 Dman? Yes he is. Is he better than Parayko and Faulk individually? Yes he is.

When Pietrangelo was here with lesser partners it was under Hitchcock and the entire team played defense 1st hockey. That gave him a tremendous amount of help making his job considerably easier. When Hitchcock left and the defense 1st mentality started to shift his defense partners were now Jbo, Parayko, Eddie, Dunn. Considerably better than what we have now. So now Parayko and Faulk do not have the benefit of a defense 1st team or good partners and we've all seen the stats that have been posted of Parayko having the hardest usage in the NHL but we still have people blaming him and wanting him traded because apparently they can't take things with context and see Parayko is being sandbagged. Trying to argue with people that if we had a #1 LD our defense would be not only IMO significantly better but possibly top 10 if not top5 in the league, coaching change not withstanding. It gets frustrating and if you try to argue in favor of Parayko or Faulk you get "well Pietrangelo did xxxx" in return.

I don't know who our #1 LD may be next year but any one of Hanifan, Chabot, Miller, all could be long shots but if you put any one of them at #1 LD with Parayko and then Leddy and Faulk as 2nd pair. All of a sudden our Defense is borderline spectacular. I like Krug as a player but he can't handle the heavy defensive usage we need and he's paid to much to be a 3rd pair guy. Hell, Scandella and Bortuzzo on 3rd pair would be impressive IMO as well, would make one hell of a PK duo.

So my main point is I'm not meaning to attack anyone individually or personally if that's how it comes off but I am arguing against the idea that Pietrangelo(all by himself) would fix our defense and that Parayko is a problem that needs traded.

 

[oPlaiD]

I wonder if we'd have less angst about Pietrangelo if we didn't actually win the Cup.

Failing to sign him, going to Vegas, and then winning the Cup with another team would just feel so typically Blues, and losing him maybe wouldn't sting so much because we wouldn't have known for sure that he actually was capable of leading the team to the Cup.

 

[Xerloris]

I wonder if we'd have less angst about Pietrangelo if we didn't actually win the Cup.

Failing to sign him, going to Vegas, and then winning the Cup with another team would just feel so typically Blues, and losing him maybe wouldn't sting so much because we wouldn't have known for sure that he actually was capable of leading the team to the Cup.

I think the real issue was the media spin he tried to put on the fans. Oh woah is me, mean Armstrong doesn't want me. I swear fans, I want to stay but Armstrong told me to leave! That kind of shit. Remember the only time JR gets insider info is from an agent that wants to spin shit. None of it's ever legit.

 

[Blueston]

I think the real issue was the media spin he tried to put on the fans. Oh woah is me, mean Armstrong doesn't want me. I swear fans, I want to stay but Armstrong told me to leave! That kind of shit. Remember the only time JR gets insider info is from an agent that wants to spin shit. None of it's ever legit.

Lebrun's article this morning had some interesting quotes from Petro. He appears to have dropped his BS about needing NMC:

“It was obviously a tough decision, but I wanted to be somewhere where I knew I had a chance to compete."

“Do we miss St. Louis? Of course, no doubt about it. My wife’s from there. We go back in the summer. But professionally, this is probably the best organization in the NHL. And it starts with (owner) Bill (Foley). It starts with the passion that he shares to win — the effort that he goes to not just for the players but for the families, to make them comfortable.”

and then this gem:

“I know a lot of people have questions about why we left. But that’s a conversation for another day. Maybe when I’m done playing, I’ll be able to speak out on how it actually went down.”

 

[Xerloris]

Lebrun's article this morning had some interesting quotes from Petro. He appears to have dropped his BS about needing NMC:

“It was obviously a tough decision, but I wanted to be somewhere where I knew I had a chance to compete."

“Do we miss St. Louis? Of course, no doubt about it. My wife’s from there. We go back in the summer. But professionally, this is probably the best organization in the NHL. And it starts with (owner) Bill (Foley). It starts with the passion that he shares to win — the effort that he goes to not just for the players but for the families, to make them comfortable.”

and then this gem:

“I know a lot of people have questions about why we left. But that’s a conversation for another day. Maybe when I’m done playing, I’ll be able to speak out on how it actually went down.”

If he had balls and actually just said this to begin with he would have a lot more respect than being a lying .

I also guess his idea of a good owner is a billionaire with money to throw around for signing bonuses. What a shame we only have an owner that loves the city and the team. Poor bastard.

 

[Blueston]

If he had balls and actually just said this to begin with he would have a lot more respect than being a lying .

I also guess his idea of a good owner is a billionaire with money to throw around for signing bonuses. What a shame we only have an owner that loves the city and the team. Pooe bastard.

i think, and this is just speculation but is based on what do we know, is that summer before when they started negotiating he asked to be made 3rd highest paid d in the league. Army basically told him that wasn't gonna happen. You may remember Army saying to press that summer that we didn't have any superstars, were a team of upper middle class players, and that we couldn't pay anyone like a superstar. This was basically the Bruins model where the stars took less.

i think that Petro got his feelings hurt by what Army had said to him t and his resigning became unlikely. Army realized that there was a major disconnect and traded for Faulk. He still tried to get Petro signed after that but doesn't seem like they ever really bridged the gap. When Petro got on that plane to Vegas he may have still been hoping that Blues would call him and tell him that he was right, they were wrong, he is a true superstar and they would pay him whatever it took. But no way Army was gonna do that.

Petro didn't wanna say he left because he wanted more money because that would make him look greedy. He didn't want to say he left because he is one of 3 best d in the league and we wouldn't pay him as such because that would make him look arrogant. He didn't want to say he left because Army was mean to him and hurt his feelings, because that would make him look like a whiny little b!tch. So he went with that BS about leaving bc Blues wouldn't give him NMC, which made him look like a lying sack of sh!t.

 

[oPlaiD]

Lebrun's article this morning had some interesting quotes from Petro. He appears to have dropped his BS about needing NMC:

“It was obviously a tough decision, but I wanted to be somewhere where I knew I had a chance to compete."

“Do we miss St. Louis? Of course, no doubt about it. My wife’s from there. We go back in the summer. But professionally, this is probably the best organization in the NHL. And it starts with (owner) Bill (Foley). It starts with the passion that he shares to win — the effort that he goes to not just for the players but for the families, to make them comfortable.”

and then this gem:

“I know a lot of people have questions about why we left. But that’s a conversation for another day. Maybe when I’m done playing, I’ll be able to speak out on how it actually went down.”

That last comment makes it sound like he really wants to say a lot of things about this, but likely thought it was not a good idea to do so in the middle of his career, likely in part due to reasons stated in your following post.

I figured him winning the Cup this year and this team entering an entirely new era might finally get us past this, but maybe Petro can continue providing this forum infinite content even post retirement... xD