Prospects and Marlies Thread February 2016

[garyjones93]

Are there playoffs or will he be coming to NA?

His team is in 2nd place he will be in the playoffs already have a bye to the second round.

 

[saltming]

Thanks salt. That would be an interesting option. Obviously Matthews could jump into the NHL next year, but it'd be interesting for him to follow the path of Nylander this year.

Fingers crossed for a good lottery day. 20% isn't very promising but hey, it's more likely than anyone else!

I would be shocked if he doesn't go right into the nhl. He has the size and skills to play right now, never mind next year when he should be better.

 

[SprDaVE]

Are there playoffs or will he be coming to NA?

I'm pretty sure they are expected to go far in the playoffs. Also, he won't be joining the Leafs or the Marlies for this season even if he's signed.

The plan earlier this year (said by Johnson) was to finish the season in Sweden and then reset in the off-season to come over to North America for next season.

 

[VanW27]

Dave/ULF - do you expect Marner in the NHL next year? It's a tough case with him. I really can't see it. Super talented obviously, but I can't see wee lil Mitch surviving in the physicality of the NHL quite yet. It's not about putting on weight as much as getting stronger and becoming less of a boy.

If the leafs don't think he's ready for the NHL, Switzerland, or somewhere else in Europe, might be a good option for Marner.

 

[SprDaVE]

If the leafs don't think he's ready for the NHL, Switzerland, or somewhere else in Europe, might be a good option for Marner.

That's not going to happen.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I still don't understand how someone who is not among the smallest players in the NHL could be too small for the NHL. It really doesn't make any sense.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Marner will be fine. I don't expect him to put up numbers (he'll probably have a season similar to drouin in terms of points and usage). If you put him back in the OHL he will develop terrible habits.

 

[AppsSyl]

Nylander listed as #2, and Marner is #3 in THN Futurewatch issue, and Kapenen is #40.There is also a great article on Willie and the Leafs rebuild, as well as a good one on Chychrun.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Marner will be fine. I don't expect him to put up numbers (he'll probably have a season similar to drouin in terms of points and usage). If you put him back in the OHL he will develop terrible habits.

Can't you just let Marner play 11 games and then send him to the AHL if he's not ready? You waste a year on his ELC, but do we really care about that? I mean if there was some rule about allowing him to play in the AHL, he would do that anyways.

Otherwise, the option is send him to Europe somewhere. He'll develop terrible habits there too. He won't have the time and space to do the things he can do there when he comes to play in the NHL.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Can't you just let Marner play 11 games and then send him to the AHL if he's not ready? You waste a year on his ELC, but do we really care about that? I mean if there was some rule about allowing him to play in the AHL, he would do that anyways.

Otherwise, the option is send him to Europe somewhere. He'll develop terrible habits there too. He won't have the time and space to do the things he can do there when he comes to play in the NHL.

You can't send Marner to the AHL. That's the point.

 

[saltming]

Maybe mitch will get the corrado treatment? Health scratch for periods of time ends up playing 30 or 40 games with the leafs?

 

[saltming]

I still don't understand how someone who is not among the smallest players in the NHL could be too small for the NHL. It really doesn't make any sense.

Imo its not his size, but his strength. There is a big difference between bein 175lbs at 18 versus 23.
So if he is strong enough next year imo he should be on the team.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Imo its not his size, but his strength. There is a big difference between bein 175lbs at 18 versus 23..

I still fail to the see the difference it makes.

Patrick Kane's strength is completely irrelevant to his game. He is not "strong enough" by any measure. Doesn't matter.

 

[SprDaVE]

Imo its not his size, but his strength. There is a big difference between bein 175lbs at 18 versus 23.
So if he is strong enough next year imo he should be on the team.

I still fail to the see the difference it makes.

Patrick Kane's strength is completely irrelevant to his game. He is not "strong enough" by any measure. Doesn't matter.

Strength is important but not the most important thing in the world. Like Hoser said, he doesn't have to be incredibly strong to be a great player because he's one of the most skilled players in the NHL. There are plenty of 'light weight' top end prospects and contributors in the NHL as we speak. Nikita Kucherov is the exact same height and weight as Marner right now, maybe 5 pounds heavier, and put up 28 goals and 64 points last year as a 21 year old. That's just one more example in a fairly big list.

If you're skilled enough to be there, you will be. This isn't to say he doesn't have to get physically stronger as he progresses, especially in his lower body, but to suggest he's going to be 'killed' or he can't be an effective U-20 player in the NHL is being a little ignorant.

Marner will be judged on his effectiveness on the ice, not by a scale.

 

[TheCLAM]

Strength is important but not the most important thing in the world. Like Hoser said, he doesn't have to be incredibly strong to be a great player because he's one of the most skilled players in the NHL. There are plenty of 'light weight' top end prospects and contributors in the NHL as we speak.

If you're skilled enough to be there, you will be. This isn't to say he doesn't have to get physically stronger as he progresses, especially in his lower body, but to suggest he's going to be 'killed' or he can't be an effective U-20 player in the NHL is being a little ignorant.

I think people confuse "strength" with being buff and bulky. Kane has great core and lower body strength that allows him to have an explosive skating style.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Maybe mitch will get the corrado treatment? Health scratch for periods of time ends up playing 30 or 40 games with the leafs?

No. Making players sit for long periods of time is a terrible method for development.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

You can't send Marner to the AHL. That's the point.

I thought he was allowed to go to the AHL after playing 11 games in the NHL. I guess I'm wrong.

If that is the case, you give him 10 games or whatever in the NHL. At that point, if he's not ready, send him to the OHL. If he's sent to the OHL it's because he's got something major things to work on. Something that requires more time than Babcock (or in Keefe for that matter) can give him.

If he's NHL ready, he's going to be in the NHL. If he's not, he'll be in the OHL, and most likely that's the best spot for him anyways.

 

[Barilko14]

Maybe mitch will get the corrado treatment? Health scratch for periods of time ends up playing 30 or 40 games with the leafs?

That would be a good way to ruin him. If they "Corrado" Marner, he would likely "Drouin" the Leafs.

The "Corrado" treatment is a worst case scenario for fringe NHLers that a team may lose to waivers. You don't do it to 19 year olds that are destined to be a major part of your future.

If he can't play every game, you send him to London. That's better than benching him for a half a season, and having everyone in the hockey world talking about.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think people confuse "strength" with being buff and bulky. Kane has great core and lower body strength that allows him to have an explosive skating style.

He's not even 180 lbs right now. He wasn't that heavy when he got into the NHL either.

Again, judge with the play on the ice, not the scale. It's all I'm trying to say. Some fans see the ~170 lbs and they freak out that he will be killed... I mean, come on.

 

[TheCLAM]

I thought he was allowed to go to the AHL after playing 11 games in the NHL. I guess I'm wrong.

If that is the case, you give him 10 games or whatever in the NHL. At that point, if he's not ready, send him to the OHL. If he's sent to the OHL it's because he's got something major things to work on. Something that requires more time than Babcock (or in Keefe for that matter) can give him.

If he's NHL ready, he's going to be in the NHL. If he's not, he'll be in the OHL, and most likely that's the best spot for him anyways.

He's not allowed to play in the AHL, you can't be 19 and play in Marner's case. However, there have been exemption to the rule in Ritchie/Nylander etc. There's a distinct difference in these cases

It's a weird situation to be in for Mitch. He's too good for the OHL, but may not be ready to make the jump to the NHL. People will argue that sending him back will promote laziness.

 

[TheCLAM]

He's not even 180 lbs right now. He wasn't that heavy when he got into the NHL either.

Again, judge with the play on the ice, not the scale. It's all I'm trying to say. Some fans see the ~170 lbs and they freak out that he will be killed... I mean, come on.

It all depends on the player's skating, which really you can't measure through simple statistics. I do believe that Marner has Jeff Skinner esque skating to avoid the danger zones.

 

[SprDaVE]

He's not allowed to play in the AHL, you can't be 19 and play in Marner's case. However, there have been exemption to the rule in Ritchie/Nylander etc. There's a distinct difference in these cases

It's a weird situation to be in for Mitch. He's too good for the OHL, but may not be ready to make the jump to the NHL. People will argue that sending him back will promote laziness.

Nylander was drafted out of Europe. Only CHL players are affected by this.

Ritchie turned 20 before the new year of the season, which makes him AHL eligible and thus why he was able to go down there.

Marner doesn't turn 20 until 2017, which is why he's not AHL eligible for the 2016/2017 season.

The only player that was drafted out of the CHL and was allowed to play in the AHL as a 18/19 year old in recent memory was Honka because he was a loan to the CHL from his European team, not signed by the CHL team itself. It was a little weird but it makes sense.

It's simple.

 

[TheCLAM]

Nylander was drafted out of Europe. Only CHL players are affected by this.

Ritchie turned 20 before the new year of the season, which makes him AHL eligible.

Marner doesn't turn 20 until 2017, which is why he's not AHL eligible for the 2016/2017 season.

The only player that was drafted out of the CHL and was allowed to play in the AHL as a 18/19 year old in recent memory was Honka because he was a loan to the CHL from his European team, not signed by the CHL team itself. It was a little weird but it makes sense.

It's simple.

Thanks for explanation for the other poster, too lazy to type it all out.

 

[SprDaVE]

That would be a good way to ruin him. If they "Corrado" Marner, he would likely "Drouin" the Leafs.

The "Corrado" treatment is a worst case scenario for fringe NHLers that a team may lose to waivers. You don't do it to 19 year olds that are destined to be a major part of your future.

If he can't play every game, you send him to London. That's better than benching him for a half a season, and having everyone in the hockey world talking about.

It wasn't that bad for Draisaitl though for example. He stayed with the Oilers for 37 games in 2014/2015, playing very limited minutes and was scratched as well. Not being able to go down to the AHL due to not being eligible, the Oilers had no choice but to send him back to Kelowna so that he could get some minutes and get his development back on track. He's doing fairly well this year despite that.

And, look at that, he's a BIG player that struggled.

I would have no objection to keep Marner as a top 9 winger, getting 10-13 minutes a game with some PP minutes so that he can start the next step in his development. This is of course assuming he plays well enough in training camp to earn that spot.

 

[dimi78]

Strength is important but not the most important thing in the world. Like Hoser said, he doesn't have to be incredibly strong to be a great player because he's one of the most skilled players in the NHL. There are plenty of 'light weight' top end prospects and contributors in the NHL as we speak. Nikita Kucherov is the exact same height and weight as Marner right now, maybe 5 pounds heavier, and put up 28 goals and 64 points last year as a 21 year old. That's just one more example in a fairly big list.

If you're skilled enough to be there, you will be. This isn't to say he doesn't have to get physically stronger as he progresses, especially in his lower body, but to suggest he's going to be 'killed' or he can't be an effective U-20 player in the NHL is being a little ignorant.

Marner will be judged on his effectiveness on the ice, not by a scale.

Actually strength along with talent are the 2 most important factors. The problem is people correlate strength with weight and height which both don't necessarily factor in much with strength.

You see those small Olympic weight lifters? Those guys are stronger than just about all NHL players at a weight class of 140 lbs.

Marner size isn't a concern it's his strength. He's not even a strong 19 year old to put it into perspective and this will ultimately hamper what he's capable of doing. He has to get stronger no doubts about it and the stronger he get's, again not in weight but in pure strength, his game will be that much better off.