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Pro Tank Thread "You said that we'd be better now, better now. But you always let us down."

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Melvin

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
28,055
Montreal, QC
Josepho said:
We are bottom 3 in 5v5 SF%, CF% and FF% and we've won 3/3 games that have gone past 60.

This is very obviously not sustainable. Don't worry.
Click to expand...

It's just boring and frustrating to have to see this same shit every year. Get off to a fluke "hot" start despite being badly outplayed due to post regulation points and blind luck. Then get hit with a bunch of injuries. Then go on a losing streak.

Rinse and repeat. Every year.

I was really hoping we'd stumble out of the gate this year just for a different pattern.
 
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Jack Burton

Jack Burton

Pro Tank Since 13
Oct 27, 2016
5,072
3,116
Pork Chop Express
Melvin said:
It's just boring and frustrating to have to see this same **** every year. Get off to a fluke "hot" start despite being badly outplayed due to post regulation points and blind luck. Then get hit with a bunch of injuries. Then go on a losing streak.

Rinse and repeat. Every year.

I was really hoping we'd stumble out of the gate this year just for a different pattern.
Click to expand...
Don't forget about Sutter...game 70 is where this guy really gets going
 
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Zippgunn

Registered User
May 15, 2011
4,075
1,773
Lhuntshi
Cheeks Clapinski said:
I'm not sure bandwagon fans would be making thousands of posts on the dedicated board of a perennial losing club. Like we are talking about people who are analyzing every prospect and player in depth, following every move and report from the team. That is nowhere near "bandwagon". Bandwagon would imply only claiming fandom whilst the team was good.

You literally suggest that critical fans shouldnt be here right now while the team sucks. You are literally asking fans to jump off the bandwagon.

Tank fans are just able to see the forest from the trees. They are willing to accept extreme short term pain (tanking, being worst in the league) in order to reach what they measure to be success. Just because your barometer for success is different doesn't make them less of a fan.

If they weren't fans they wouldn't be here discussing their vision for a roadmap to success. They wouldn't be discussing anything Canucks-related at all.

Lets stop with the notion that only blind acceptance of the team in the current state indicates true fandom. If this board was an echo-chamber, it would be less enjoyable for all of us.
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Who said that "only blind acceptance of the team indicates true fandom"? Certainly not me. Nor have I suggested that "critical fans" shouldn't be here; hell I'm a critical fan myself. I blame the Trump era for these ridiculous exaggerations. My point is that anybody who actually wishes for members of the team that they ostensibly root for to get injured is no fan. I for one would be delighted if these sick misguided individuals left these boards never to return. In addition to that I find that the notion of tanking in order to possibly get a better draft pick is demonstrably a terrible strategy. We have currently on our payroll TWELVE first round picks, 8 of them top 10 picks. These 8 players include bona fide stars such as Elias and Bo as well as fan favorites Gagner, Guddy, Pooliot, Jake and Juolevi, none of which have lived up to their high billing as draft picks (although Olli is still marinating) and several of whom are the favorite whipping boys here on HF Boards. Since I actually like to watch hockey games in which my team wins or at least plays well I find it much more likely that we will make the playoffs and maybe even win a round than somehow win the draft lottery and pick 1st overall which doesn't even guarantee that we will get a superstar out of the deal. What more proof do the tankers need than this? Bleating "Benning sucks" doesn't even work since many of these high picks were picked by other GM's and most of them were picked pretty close to where central scouting said they would be picked. Combining the inexact science of drafting with the slim chance of winning the draft lottery means that you could tank for a decade and still not end up with a powerhouse team as our first-round-pick-heavy lineup suggests. I think it is a stupid strategy that makes one end up hoping for one's team to lose which I find unsupportable as a fan.
 
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carrotshirt

carrotshirt

Registered User
Jan 1, 2009
492
1,241
Zippgunn said:
Who said that "only blind acceptance of the team indicates true fandom"? Certainly not me. Nor have I suggested that "critical fans" shouldn't be here; hell I'm a critical fan myself. I blame the Trump era for these ridiculous exaggerations. My point is that anybody who actually wishes for members of the team that they ostensibly root for to get injured is no fan. I for one would be delighted if these sick misguided individuals left these boards never to return. In addition to that I find that the notion of tanking in order to possibly get a better draft pick is demonstrably a terrible strategy. We have currently on our payroll TWELVE first round picks, 8 of them top 10 picks. These 8 players include bona fide stars such as Elias and Bo as well as fan favorites Gagner, Guddy, Pooliot, Jake and Juolevi, none of which have lived up to their high billing as draft picks (although Olli is still marinating) and several of whom are the favorite whipping boys here on HF Boards. Since I actually like to watch hockey games in which my team wins or at least plays well I find it much more likely that we will make the playoffs and maybe even win a round than somehow win the draft lottery and pick 1st overall which doesn't even guarantee that we will get a superstar out of the deal. What more proof do the tankers need than this? Bleating "Benning sucks" doesn't even work since many of these high picks were picked by other GM's and most of them were picked pretty close to where central scouting said they would be picked. Combining the inexact science of drafting with the slim chance of winning the draft lottery means that you could tank for a decade and still not end up with a powerhouse team as our first-round-pick-heavy lineup suggests. I think it is a stupid strategy that makes one end up hoping for one's team to lose which I find unsupportable as a fan.
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Nobody suggests a high pick is a guaranteed star player, but star players are generally easier to find with picks 1-5 instead of 26-31. What do you propose we do to rebuild and improve the team?

I find myself mildly amused that so many are disgusted by the thought of tanking, so come into the PRO tank thread to bash their head against the wall.
 
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Zippgunn

Registered User
May 15, 2011
4,075
1,773
Lhuntshi
carrotshirt said:
Nobody suggests a high pick is a guaranteed star player, but star players are generally easier to find with picks 1-5 instead of 26-31. What do you propose we do to rebuild and improve the team?

I find myself mildly amused that so many are disgusted by the thought of tanking, so come into the PRO tank thread to bash their head against the wall.
Click to expand...

Yes well normally I just leave it alone but when alleged "fans" start wishing for Canuck injuries I can't sit idly by...

I suggest that we do what we are already doing; trying to draft well and assemble free agents who bring something to the table and who are happy to be here. It's a tough job because Vancouver isn't the first choice for a lot of players for a lot of reasons.
 
Consistencee

Consistencee

Registered User
Feb 23, 2017
98
177
Zippgunn said:
Who said that "only blind acceptance of the team indicates true fandom"? Certainly not me. Nor have I suggested that "critical fans" shouldn't be here; hell I'm a critical fan myself. I blame the Trump era for these ridiculous exaggerations. My point is that anybody who actually wishes for members of the team that they ostensibly root for to get injured is no fan. I for one would be delighted if these sick misguided individuals left these boards never to return. In addition to that I find that the notion of tanking in order to possibly get a better draft pick is demonstrably a terrible strategy. We have currently on our payroll TWELVE first round picks, 8 of them top 10 picks. These 8 players include bona fide stars such as Elias and Bo as well as fan favorites Gagner, Guddy, Pooliot, Jake and Juolevi, none of which have lived up to their high billing as draft picks (although Olli is still marinating) and several of whom are the favorite whipping boys here on HF Boards. Since I actually like to watch hockey games in which my team wins or at least plays well I find it much more likely that we will make the playoffs and maybe even win a round than somehow win the draft lottery and pick 1st overall which doesn't even guarantee that we will get a superstar out of the deal. What more proof do the tankers need than this? Bleating "Benning sucks" doesn't even work since many of these high picks were picked by other GM's and most of them were picked pretty close to where central scouting said they would be picked. Combining the inexact science of drafting with the slim chance of winning the draft lottery means that you could tank for a decade and still not end up with a powerhouse team as our first-round-pick-heavy lineup suggests. I think it is a stupid strategy that makes one end up hoping for one's team to lose which I find unsupportable as a fan.
Click to expand...

We don't have 8 top ten first round picks drafted by our organization, that's an IMPORTANT distinction to make. We have 5 in our org:

Bo, Petey, Hughes = great/ only reason to watch this tire fire
and
Juolevi/Virtanen = probably not great

So right now we have 3/5 players drafted in the top ten that are key pieces of our future.

There's a big difference between failed top ten picks that we keep signing as reclamation projects and drafting in the top 10 multiple times. The teams those players came from all have INTEGRAL players on their roster drafted in the top 10. These were their Virtanens/Juolevis.

Benning sucks (for many reasons), not because of his drafting but because of his atrocious pro scouting in these reclamation projects.

To miss on these signings/trades of these top 10 picks with more data available (after these players had played in the league) is a clear sign of incompetence. Assets we gave up (for guddy) and contracts signed (gagne, guddy) show a complete disconnect in what Benning THOUGHT these players were and what they actually ARE.
 
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Icebreakers

Registered User
Apr 29, 2011
9,366
4,332
Red Wings have 31st place locked in. That team is a new level of bad. If we can finish in the bottom 8 or so, it should still be a good draft for us.
 
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