Pro Tank Thread "You said that we'd be better now, better now. But you always let us down."

[Melvin]

Well you never cease to post about it either.

There are so many other threads for them to troll, I wish they would at least leave the tank thread be.

This should be a safe place for us to be positive about the future of a top pick in the draft and new management.

I really feel like a terrible start to this season will put Benning's feet to the fire and things might finally start looking up.

One must be wary of one's motives when they open this thread.

 

[CanaFan]

Horvat? Dahlen? Virtanen? Some other unknown surprise? (Chatfield?). Back in the 2000's, did anyone see guys like Burrows, Bieksa, and Raymond coming from a mile away? Or did they just emerge out of nowhere.

**** happens.

Horvat, sure.

Dahlen, tbd.

Virtanen, seems a stretch.

So basically relying on a handful of random surprises for this prophecy of a brilliant future to arrive soon?

Gotcha.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Horvat, sure.

Dahlen, tbd.

Virtanen, seems a stretch.

So basically relying on a handful of random surprises for this prophecy of a brilliant future to arrive soon?

Gotcha.

Fair enough.

So lets hold hands and be negative together I guess.

#TheSkyIsFalling #WeWillNeverGetBetter #BenningSux

 

[Addison Rae]

Just making garbage claims like, "I don't think we'll win a game until November," is just toxic and unnecessarily negative in my opinion. It's disturbing really. Most true fans, regardless of how good or bad their team is, will often feel "rejuvinated" and "fresh" when a new season is about to start. We get to watch our favourite team after half a year off.

Like if watching the Canucks and watching a Benning-lead team brings you that much pain, why not just put yourself out of your misery and go watch another sport? To each their own I guess, but the constant wave of negativity never ceases to amaze me.

This is the worst 3 year stretch in team history, this is essentially the same team coming back. I understand you want to be "hopeful", but sometimes you need to think with your brain and not your heart.

Where do you see the Canucks finishing this year?

 

[CanaFan]

Fair enough.

So lets hold hands and be negative together I guess.

#TheSkyIsFalling #WeWillNeverGetBetter #BenningSux

Works for me. Once you admit there is a problem then you can start to think about solutions.

 

[Horse McHindu]

This is the worst 3 year stretch in team history, this is essentially the same team coming back. I understand you want to be "hopeful", but sometimes you need to think with your brain and not your heart.

Where do you see the Canucks finishing this year?

Honestly? I don't think they'll make the playoffs, but I think they'll do better than expected.

I see them coming close to their 2007-2008 point total.

Even if they don't? Who cares? We improve our odds in the lottery and pick up another Hughes/Pettersson calibre player?

I want the boys to compete their butts off and show up to work night in night out.........even if they get their butts handed to them.

The absolute DUMBEST thing that an organisation can do, is firesale every single vet and throw the kids to the wolves.......and get the kids to stop caring about competing from December onwards. The presence of vets allows the kids to learn the right habits, and forces kids to compete hard night in night out........even if they're well out of playoff contention. Let mother nature take its course. Don't "force" a tank. Let the tank happen naturally.

Conditioning the kids to compete night in night out will pay off in spades in the long run.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Works for me. Once you admit there is a problem then you can start to think about solutions.

My solution is to get the kids to compete as hard as they can night in night out, and surround them with vets that can hold the kids accountable and teach the kids the right habit. Condition the kids to work their butts off, and let the tank happen naturally if they aren't good enough (which will likely be the case). Exactly how management has been doing things.

The "Pro Tankers" seem to want little to no presence of vets, hand all/most of the kids NHL roles (without having have them earn said spots or beat out a vet for said spots), throw the kids to the wolves, make the kids lose confidence by having them get owned by the opposition, having the kids stop competing hard by mid November since they'll be way out playoff contention by this time, and then hope and pray for great lottery odds.

In my opinion, my solution makes sense. Conditioning the kids to working hard and dangling a carrot in front of them (i.e. playoffs are a possibility) breeds character in the long run. Tanking via absence of vets or veteran firesale breeds cowards and kills the spirit of young players (is it a coincidence that many young oiler players that left Edmonton, "magically" became much better on their new teams?).

 

[pgj98m3]

Honestly? I don't think they'll make the playoffs, but I think they'll do better than expected.

I see them coming close to their 2007-2008 point total.

Even if they don't? Who cares? We improve our odds in the lottery and pick up another Hughes/Pettersson calibre player?

I want the boys to compete their butts off and show up to work night in night out.........even if they get their butts handed to them.

The absolute DUMBEST thing that an organisation can do, is firesale every single vet and throw the kids to the wolves.......and get the kids to stop caring about competing from December onwards. The presence of vets allows the kids to learn the right habits, and forces kids to compete hard night in night out........even if they're well out of playoff contention. Let mother nature take its course. Don't "force" a tank. Let the tank happen naturally.

Conditioning the kids to compete night in night out will pay off in spades in the long run.

The theory of vets leading the way is just that - a theory. What "veterans" are showing leadership on this tire fire of a team????????????

 

[CanaFan]

My solution is to get the kids to compete as hard as they can night in night out, and surround them with vets that can hold the kids accountable and teach the kids the right habit. Condition the kids to work their butts off, and let the tank happen naturally if they aren't good enough (which will likely be the case).

The "Pro Tankers" seem to want little to no presence of vets, hand all/most of the kids NHL roles (without having have them earn said spots or beat out a vet for said spots), throw the kids to the wolves, make the kids lose confidence by having them get owned by the opposition, having the kids stop competing hard by mid November since they'll be way out playoff contention by this time, and then hope and pray for great lottery odds.

In my opinion, my solution makes sense. Conditioning the kids to working hard and dangling a carrot in front of them (i.e. playoffs are a possibility) breeds character in the long run. Tanking via absence of vets or veteran firesale breeds cowards and kills the spirit of young players (is it a coincidence that many young oiler players that left Edmonton, "magically" became much better on their new teams?).

It worked fine for Toronto. Pittsburgh. Chicago. Talent wins out over everything. Of course bungling those high picks so that you end up with a 3rd line winger and a soft, second pair D man definitely interferes with the tanking strategy. This is why a competent GM and not a holdover from the 1980’s is a necessary first step.

 

[CanaFan]

The theory of vets leading the way is just that - a theory. What "veterans" are showing leadership on this tire fire of a team????????????

Also you can’t “veteran-lead” a bunch of marginal talents to greatness. You need talent first, mentorship second. Not the other way around.

 

[Addison Rae]

Honestly? I don't think they'll make the playoffs, but I think they'll do better than expected.

I see them coming close to their 2007-2008 point total.

Even if they don't? Who cares? We improve our odds in the lottery and pick up another Hughes/Pettersson calibre player?

I want the boys to compete their butts off and show up to work night in night out.........even if they get their butts handed to them.

The absolute DUMBEST thing that an organisation can do, is firesale every single vet and throw the kids to the wolves.......and get the kids to stop caring about competing from December onwards. The presence of vets allows the kids to learn the right habits, and forces kids to compete hard night in night out........even if they're well out of playoff contention. Let mother nature take its course. Don't "force" a tank. Let the tank happen naturally.

Conditioning the kids to compete night in night out will pay off in spades in the long run.

The 2007/2008 team was a game away from taking over the lead of it's division with ~10 games left in the season they imploded down the stretch and finished the year with 88 points, and missed the playoffs by 3 points.

I think that's a bit optimistic.

Can you please explain the "throwing the kids to the wolves comment"? What do you see our projected top 6 being this year? Pettersson and Boeser will have to carry the offensive load for the team this year. Isn't that by definition throwing them into the wolves? Adding bottom 6 replacement level junk isn't going to stop the youngest players on the team from carrying the largest load.

When I think of easing young players in I look at what Winnipeg did for someone like Scheifele they had him playing behind the Ladd/Little/Wheeler line until he was ready to take over for Little. With Laine and Ehlers they were able to play them behind Scheifele and Wheeler. They didn't have bottom 6 junk "teaching how to play the right way"

You can pile together as many buzz words and cliches as you want, it doesn't make your argument any more credible.

 

[CanaFan]

Honestly? I don't think they'll make the playoffs, but I think they'll do better than expected.

I see them coming close to their 2007-2008 point total.

Even if they don't? Who cares? We improve our odds in the lottery and pick up another Hughes/Pettersson calibre player?

I want the boys to compete their butts off and show up to work night in night out.........even if they get their butts handed to them.

The absolute DUMBEST thing that an organisation can do, is firesale every single vet and throw the kids to the wolves.......and get the kids to stop caring about competing from December onwards. The presence of vets allows the kids to learn the right habits, and forces kids to compete hard night in night out........even if they're well out of playoff contention. Let mother nature take its course. Don't "force" a tank. Let the tank happen naturally.

Conditioning the kids to compete night in night out will pay off in spades in the long run.

No one is saying the kids shouldn’t compete or even have some vets on a team.

The issue is the balance of these decisions and that the guy making these decisions has largely fumbled the ball every time.

 

[Horse McHindu]

The theory of vets leading the way is just that - a theory. What "veterans" are showing leadership on this tire fire of a team????????????

The twins last year. Yes - they were shells, but they were a major positive influence on the kids. Guys like Edler and Tanev have been borderline elite defensemen in the league and have been to a cup finals. They have been on a championship calibre team. They can show the kids a thing or two. Beagle is obviously another guy. The guy won a cup on an elite team just a few short months ago. Think a guy like him can tell the kids what a championship calibre lockerroom looks like? And what off-ice habits his former team had? And what things they did in practice?

It's not just about "leadership" either. The presence of vets on the team, allow the kids to get their feet wet in protected roles while they grow their games. These roles will push said kids, but won't overburden them. THAT is why you keep a guy like Tanev. A guy like Tanev can be used to guide Juolevi.......or take a struggling yet talented Hutton under his wing. Edler can do the same.

Guys like Beagle, Roussel, and Sutter, allow for guys like Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, etc., to have more offensive zone starts.

That's how you get the kids to compete night in night out even if their out of playoff contention early on.

Instead?

The Pro Tankers want all of Goldobin, Leipsic, Gaudette, Dahlen, Lind, Archibald, Gaunce, etc., etc. to make the team, without realising that if they were to do something like this, it would actually HURT the kids more than HELP them. Getting more ice-time and opportunity isn't always a good thing.

In the 4 years that I've been here, it's a concept that for whatever reason, the "Pro Tankers" have not comprehended.

Compete hard, do the best you can, and who knows...........maybe lady luck lottery smiles down upon thee (as it did for New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Carolina these past two years).

 

[Horse McHindu]

@dim jim @CanaFan - 5:00 AM over here, lol. I'll try and respond to your guys' comments after I get my 8 hours, lol. Cheers.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

My solution is to get the kids to compete as hard as they can night in night out, and surround them with vets that can hold the kids accountable and teach the kids the right habit. Condition the kids to work their butts off, and let the tank happen naturally if they aren't good enough (which will likely be the case). Exactly how management has been doing things.

The "Pro Tankers" seem to want little to no presence of vets, hand all/most of the kids NHL roles (without having have them earn said spots or beat out a vet for said spots), throw the kids to the wolves, make the kids lose confidence by having them get owned by the opposition, having the kids stop competing hard by mid November since they'll be way out playoff contention by this time, and then hope and pray for great lottery odds.

In my opinion, my solution makes sense. Conditioning the kids to working hard and dangling a carrot in front of them (i.e. playoffs are a possibility) breeds character in the long run. Tanking via absence of vets or veteran firesale breeds cowards and kills the spirit of young players (is it a coincidence that many young oiler players that left Edmonton, "magically" became much better on their new teams?).

Veterns dont lead the way
Good players do

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

My solution is to get the kids to compete as hard as they can night in night out, and surround them with vets that can hold the kids accountable and teach the kids the right habit. Condition the kids to work their butts off, and let the tank happen naturally if they aren't good enough (which will likely be the case). Exactly how management has been doing things

The "Pro Tankers" seem to want little to no presence of vets, hand all/most of the kids NHL roles (without having have them earn said spots or beat out a vet for said spots), throw the kids to the wolves, make the kids lose confidence by having them get owned by the opposition, having the kids stop competing hard by mid November since they'll be way out playoff contention by this time, and then hope and pray for great lottery odds.

In my opinion, my solution makes sense. Conditioning the kids to working hard and dangling a carrot in front of them (i.e. playoffs are a possibility) breeds character in the long run. Tanking via absence of vets or veteran firesale breeds cowards and kills the spirit of young players (is it a coincidence that many young oiler players that left Edmonton, "magically" became much better on their new teams?).

How do people think that lack of mentors was the only problem in Edmonton? They brought back Ryan Smyth and brought in Ference, Shultz, Eager. Edmonton's problems have always been goaltending, a tire-fire defence that can't move the puck, and lack of talent outside a handful of players. The Canucks face the same problems today.

 

[CanaFan]

The Pro Tankers want all of Goldobin, Leipsic, Gaudette, Dahlen, Lind, Archibald, Gaunce, etc., etc. to make the team, without realising that if they were to do something like this, it would actually HURT the kids more than HELP them. Getting more ice-time and opportunity isn't always a good thing.

In the 4 years that I've been here, it's a concept that for whatever reason, the "Pro Tankers" have not comprehended.

Compete hard, do the best you can, and who knows...........maybe lady luck lottery smiles down upon thee (as it did for New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Carolina these past two years).

This isn’t at all what pro tankers want. You’ve invented a silly position just so you have something easy to argue with.

Pro tankers do want young kids to have opportunities to make the team, that is true. There is an imbalance in terms of the number of vets on this team and the number of young players. We are going into year 5 of a rebuild and Pettersson would represent just the 8th rookie over that span (Horvat, Virtanen, McCann, Hutton, Tryamkin, Stecher, and Boeser).

The other issue has been the unwillingness or inability to trade vets for picks and prospects. Bieksa and Burrows are the only two success stories. Hansen went for an AHL prospect which is already looking like a mistake. Vanek yielded a 4th liner who, while useful, is hardly a core piece of a rebuild. Hamhuis, Miller, Tanev, Kassian, Higgins, Garrison, and Kesler are other veteran assets that in one way or another were mishandled or wasted on “compete now” assets rather than pieces befitting to a rebuild.

There’s more but it’s tiresome to have to repeat the same basic arguments for the 100th time.

 

[DDRhockey]

Canucks needs some top6 wingers.

With horvat and pettersson at C, they are set at that position. But tanking for wingers is needed.

 

[valkynax]

Canucks needs some top6 wingers.

With horvat and pettersson at C, they are set at that position. But tanking for wingers is needed.

And we need top pair D

And a goalie who doesn't suck

And a GM who's not a brain-dead moron

And an ownership who isn't constantly on PCP

 

[Addison Rae]

Canucks needs some top6 wingers.

With horvat and pettersson at C, they are set at that position. But tanking for wingers is needed.

Nylander/Ehlers and Tkachuk would look pretty good right about now, even McCann.

It's insane that people are able to trust a management team that has been here for over 4 years but hasn't acquired a single top 6 forward or top 4 defender through pro scouting.

This team stinks, and because it stinks fans are content with using the "rebuilding" word to mask the fact it was a failed retool, and in effect management isn't being held accountable for anything these days because "we're suppose to be bad".

When the team is good for a few weeks, management openly states "best team in X years" playoff push threads are posted on this forum by pro benning posters, but when they start to suck again it's always "it's fine because we're rebuilding"

 

[xtr3m]

My fandom, my choice. #teamtank

 

[brokenhole]

How do people think that lack of mentors was the only problem in Edmenton? They brought back Ryan Smith and brought in Ference, Shultz, Eager. Edmenton's problems have always been goaltending, a tire-fire defence that can't move the puck, and lack of talent outside a handful of players. The Canucks face the same problems today.

Eager..glad Kass punched that dirtbag out of the league.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Reporting for duty.

 

[Fire Benning]

How do people think that lack of mentors was the only problem in Edmenton? They brought back Ryan Smith and brought in Ference, Shultz, Eager. Edmenton's problems have always been goaltending, a tire-fire defence that can't move the puck, and lack of talent outside a handful of players. The Canucks face the same problems today.

Yep. They did bring in veterans like Andrew Ference, Darcy Hordichuk, Eric Belanger, Boyd Gordon etc. for the exact same purpose of shielding young players/mentoring that is parroted when talking about the Canucks today.

The Oilers top scoring center in the seasons after the 2006 cup run to the McDavid year was none other than Sam Gagner, their highest scoring defenseman was Tom Gilbert. Their most used goalies in that time frame were Dwayne Roloson, Nikolai Khabibulin, Ben Scrivens, Mathieu Garon and Devan Dubnyk before he became good.

 

[The Drop]

My fandom, my choice. #teamtank

I haven’t seen a GM in history get as much fan support for making a team worse than Benning.

Some people just love losers