GWT: Premier League round 26

[S E P H]

I get it, if Cavani is above-average, then Pedro is pure garbage. Just trying to frame the other argument.

Pedro isn't pure garbage, never said that, I keep reiterating that Chelsea has too many Pedros' which is why your team is in a funk. Lets be honest, Arsenal isn't winning anything this year, but The Arsenal are in a upwards trajectory with the winter signings they made, while Chelsea are in a downward spiral. Giroud will help with some goalscoring here and there, but he's a much better playmaker than a consistent striker which will help other players like Pedro. However, if I am right about Pedro, Chelsea is going to hurt for goals considering how inconsistent Giroud and Morata are and how Pedro doesn't possess all the skill needed. Perhaps I am underrating him, but as I said in my debate with Les Habs, he plays a too safe of a game for me to be effective in Chelsea's current problems. He might have been a solid buy when you lot had Mourinho, but he's expendable under Conte.

As for Cavani, he struggled in the last world cup when he wasn't surrounded by WC talent @Evilo . Now Cavani's goal per minute is 98 which is ****ing insane.

Goals per minute past seasons (before Neymar/Mbappe)
[16-17] 84 minutes (even more impressive)
[15-16] 145 minutes
[14-15] 134 minutes
[13-14] 137 minutes

Based upon these numbers, we can say that he is an above-average striker who had an outstanding yet unsustainable 2016-17 campaign, where ADM and Lucas were the only two that had 15 and 11 assists respectively after the entire season was done. Now because he gets to play up front with Neymar (16 assists), ADM (14 assists), and Mbappe (14 assists), with the season ONLY being a little bit half over, people think he's world class. He's still a very solid player I would love on Arsenal, but he's not as good as people make him out to be on this board.

 

[YNWA14]

It's also not like Cavani only did this at one team. Scored 30+ goals a season at Napoli before Insigne was very good.

No doubt, but Higuain has also been a fairly consistent scorer everywhere he's gone, and again internationally he's got a better scoring rate , and when you include assisting goals he's been more productive in general during the club career. I'm not saying Higuain is better but they're of a similar level (though Cavani is definitely in better form and a better offensive environment now).

Though I feel like Higuain is always more under the microscope for the goals he didn't score rather than the ones he has scored or created.

 

[Live in the Now]

No doubt, but Higuain has also been a fairly consistent scorer everywhere he's gone, and again internationally he's got a better scoring rate , and when you include assisting goals he's been more productive in general during the club career. I'm not saying Higuain is better but they're of a similar level (though Cavani is definitely in better form and a better offensive environment now).

Though I feel like Higuain is always more under the microscope for the goals he didn't score rather than the ones he has scored or created.

That's because Cavani isn't played in position to score for Uruguay. Very often he's the supporting striker, for obvious reasons. After all Suarez won a tournament for them.

I think club football is more important for determining which players are better than other ones, and Higuain only has two seasons with 30 goals. Also I think Higuain has a worse reputation because he hasn't been a top scorer for as long. It's only those two seasons, but more than that, he's had major blips in form over his career. Cavani on the other hand not really, even scoring a lot when playing wide. Cavani also does have better physical attributes.

Higuain is good enough that it's reasonable to compare the players but I think Cavani is definitely and has always been better.

 

[Live in the Now]

Goals per minute past seasons (before Neymar/Mbappe)
[15-16] 145 minutes
[14-15] 134 minutes
[13-14] 137 minutes

He was playing as a left wing for all of these. The only wingers who can score more often than that are named Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, and Salah. Maybe Insigne and Sanchez too, but I don't think so.

 

[S E P H]

He was playing as a left wing for all of these. The only wingers who can score more often than that are named Messi, Ronaldo, and Salah.

Fair enough, but he was used as a winger because his so-called world-class ability couldn't surpass a digressing-Ibrahimovic.

 

[Live in the Now]

Ibra wasn't regressing though. He scored 50 goals his last season in Paris. No other striker scores that much now.

 

[Evilo]

As for Cavani, he struggled in the last world cup when he wasn't surrounded by WC talent @Evilo . Now Cavani's goal per minute is 98 which is ****ing insane.

Goals per minute past seasons (before Neymar/Mbappe)
[16-17] 84 minutes (even more impressive)
[15-16] 145 minutes
[14-15] 134 minutes
[13-14] 137 minutes

Based upon these numbers, we can say that he is an above-average striker who had an outstanding yet unsustainable 2016-17 campaign, where ADM and Lucas were the only two that had 15 and 11 assists respectively after the entire season was done. Now because he gets to play up front with Neymar (16 assists), ADM (14 assists), and Mbappe (14 assists), with the season ONLY being a little bit half over, people think he's world class. He's still a very solid player I would love on Arsenal, but he's not as good as people make him out to be on this board.

Based on those numbers, we can say you have no idea what you're talking about.
Cavani played wing the years you stated (before 16-17).
Anything else you want to add?

 

[YNWA14]

He was playing as a left wing for all of these. The only wingers who can score more often than that are named Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, and Salah. Maybe Insigne and Sanchez too, but I don't think so.

Though to be fair in 15/16 he scored in only 3 of his 12 games as a striker (he scored much more as a winger than a striker in that season), he played more games as a striker than as a left winger in 14/15 and only really in 13/14 do I think it overly affected his scoring because he was playing on the right instead of the left.

Anyway, this has kind of gone off the rails a bit...I wouldn't blame someone for preferring Higuain. Different situations, and somewhat different players. Both productive.

 

[Live in the Now]

Based on those numbers, we can say you have no idea what you're talking about.
Cavani played wing the years you stated (before 16-17).
Anything else you want to add?

The biggest problem some people have with Cavani is that he is world class at two positions apparently.

Though to be fair in 15/16 he scored in only 3 of his 12 games as a striker (he scored much more as a winger than a striker in that season), he played more games as a striker than as a left winger in 14/15 and only really in 13/14 do I think it overly affected his scoring because he was playing on the right instead of the left./QUOTE]

I think it's fair to say that switching positions like that affects players quite a bit even when they go back to their regular position.

 

[S E P H]

Ibra wasn't regressing though. He scored 50 goals his last season in Paris. No other striker scores that much now.

Yeah and yet he still scored 28 goals in 46 games in his last full season at United. He's like Jagr where he's that ageless wonder that keeps on scoring no matter the age, but a 30 year old Jagr would still kick a 37 year old Jagr's ass even if both of them were PPG. In the end, Ibrah was past his prime and still Cavani couldn't surpass him.

 

[Live in the Now]

Yeah and yet he still scored 28 goals in 46 games in his last full season at United. He's like Jagr where he's that ageless wonder that keeps on scoring no matter the age, but a 30 year old Jagr would still kick a 37 year old Jagr's ass even if both of them were PPG. In the end, Ibrah was past his prime and still Cavani couldn't surpass him.

Yes, but football is also different and when you have an ego like Ibrahimovic you can't put him on the bench. Their team was also better with Ibra and Cavani both playing so there was no reason to change anything. Cavani also scored like a world class winger.

 

[BMann]

No doubt, but Higuain has also been a fairly consistent scorer everywhere he's gone, and again internationally he's got a better scoring rate , and when you include assisting goals he's been more productive in general during the club career. I'm not saying Higuain is better but they're of a similar level (though Cavani is definitely in better form and a better offensive environment now).

Though I feel like Higuain is always more under the microscope for the goals he didn't score rather than the ones he has scored or created.

He Higuain is a good club level striker but not top class international striker. Mentally fragile. No Crespo or Batigol is he.