GWT: Premier League round 26

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Jussi, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. les Habs

    les Habs Registered User

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    Nothing in what you quoted suggests I'm taking this personally. No, I don't "love" Pedro and I never have.

    He's not remotely a useless player used that way. Again, you should watch him play some time.

    I never said labeling someone a utility players should be deemed as negative. I'm disputing your label of him being one when he isn't for the most part nor should he be.

    Pedro is useless compared to Willian? OK.

    Chelsea don't have too many Pedros. They need to revamp the side a bit, but they don't have too many Pedros. Players you're labeling as other Pedros, like Cesc, aren't other Pedros.

    The fact of the matter is from the fact of how they both played at Barça where Sanchez wasn't easily the superior player.

    This season isn't even a comparison because once again he plays less. That being said it's not like Sanchez is lighting things up this season. Give Pedro Sanchez's minutes and it looks pretty clear he puts up about as many goals and assists this season. Also, Pedro's role isn't too carry the load. That said, as I pointed out, he put the numbers he did despite your characterization of him being a "scrub", "awful buy", "BxB player not possessing the skill needed", etc. As for Sanchez and Ozil, carrying the loads throughout decades? Where exactly have they carried Arsenal? Out of the CL?

    My argument is backed up by facts. You've simply come up with labels that are completely wrong and you've also slated him at Barça as well. To say Willian has been better is highly debatable. I'd say at times he has been, but it's pretty even. Last season however, when Chelsea won the league and made it to the FA Cup Final, Pedro was better.

    That last two matches Chelsea weren't playing with a true striker for one. Second, Willian also happened to playing against Watford. Laying Chelsea's problems at the feet of Pedro is as hilarious as it is stupid.

    It's not a useless stat if it's in a bigger match and a player delivers multiple times in their career.

    Bayern are irrelevent and don't change the fact that United were also a good side that season. We were better, sure, but we were also better than Bayern.

    I am willing to try and understand where someone is coming from as much as anyone else. The problem is what you're posting is coming from presumably you're uniformed opinion and you keep posting nonsense that isn't even true.

    Obvious reasons, yet you mentioned de Bruyne anway... Sterling? He cost well more than double what Pedro cost and until this season wasn't outperforming Pedro. That's not to mention how Sterling would have slotted into Chelsea last season. Martial would have better? Another player who cost more than double and who last season for example didn't outplay Pedro and who in his first season played a lot more minutes. Draxler? A player who cost more than 50% more than Pedro and who hasn't been as good since then. Costa again cost more, his since been loaned out and hasn't delivered more than Pedro. Son again cost more and hasn't really delivered much more if anything than Pedro. Perisic cost less, but he's not necessarily delivered much more either. So to sum it up, you're answer is players who weren't an option, players who cost a lot more, and players don't perform as well or only as well.

    Yet you keep saying they need to get rid of Pedro, he's a scrub, he was an awful buy, etc and yet now you're saying you wouldn't have a problem with them keeping him.

    You have zero basis about Turan being considered competition. If you have something post it. Very clear that wasn't the case.

    He would have had some minutes with Neymar getting injured, but yes his minutes would have been limited. So would Sanchez's.

    Yeah, and those aren't "dime-a-dozen" players. You can see my reply above for the rest of it.

    No, his main position isn't LW. He does play there, but throughout his career he's played more on the right. Even this season Whoscored says his time between those two flanks has been evenly split. By all means cite a source to demonstrate your "facts" that he's exclusively a left-sided player.

    It's a completely fair comparison because it's in response to you saying Pedro "lacks skill and creativity when it comes to scoring goals." And take goals out of it and look at assists. I would say assists are in part at least down to creativity. Ozil is an apt argument even though it doesn't suit you.

    My team would kick the crap out of your team for years and years. A couple of years down the road your team won't be winning World Cups (???). You lost both the battle and the war. You've got a lot of young players who still have a lot to prove and who quite frankly don't look at this stage as though they'll be much if at all better than my younger players. And like I said, my team fits much better together than yours does. Much better. LOL at the Pedro comments. So you can't compare Pedro and Ozil in a discussion about skill and creativity when it comes to scoring goals and yet you can compare Dahoud and Pedro?

    Young and rebellious or just young and stupid? Also I already pointed out, nowhere 99.9% of them are developing in an upward trajectory.

    LOL. All you've done is spout your opinion which has been quite amusing.
     
  2. Edo

    Edo The Mightiest Club

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    Pedro and Cavani has some of the fiercest fans I've ever seen.

    Pedro is the equivalent of a third line grinder in hockey.
     
  3. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Problem is you never admitted that Cavani was a great player.
    Doesn't take a fan to see that he's an incredible player, with his flaws obviously but the best in the world in several categories too.
     
  4. Live in the Now

    Live in the Now Registered User

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    Pedro, the two league and treble winner has fans. Go figure. He's a better Maxi Rodriguez which makes him a fantastic player.

    Chelsea's problems don't have very much to do with him. Of course everyone would rather have the team posted earlier full of the players that they sold because it's just common sense that they would, but let's not go act like Pedro sucks. That team would have the three best players in the league this season plus a top five keeper, two great midfielders, and one of the best young CB's.
     
  5. Edo

    Edo The Mightiest Club

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    Admittedly, I am not able to watch much of Ligue 1 because it isn't available to me. I used to watch him in Napoli, I watch him in the CL, and I watch him with Uruguay. What I've seen is a guy who isn't great in big games and a dude that just doesn't win you games. With Uruguay, he's been absolutely terrible. He's a little like Higuain in that sense. But I like Higuain a little bit more.

    You think that Cavani is world class. I compare him to a guy like Suarez, and he isn't even close. Not at all.

    I'm very stubborn and he's just played bad in the 20-25 games I've seen him play. I tend to watch big games, and it's hard for some guys to consistently produce and perform in them. Very rare. It's just one of those things. Especially when I start comparing him to some of the teammates he's had, and his opposition. My opinion of him will never change.
     
  6. les Habs

    les Habs Registered User

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    Higuain over Cavani? Uff...
     
  7. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Ouch...
    Look at his NT and CL stats.
    And who he scored against.

    Embarassing.
     
  8. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    In a 2016, Cavani played 11 NT games. He scored 10 goals. Scored twice on Brazil, on Chile, etc...
    During the same year Suarez played 8 games (yeah Cavani is rarely injured) and scored 3 goals.
    I took 2016 because there were many qualifying games.

    In the 2017 CL he has 6 goals in 6 games having scored on all the teams in his group. 1g 1a against Bayern.

    In 2016/17 CL, he had 8 goals in 8 games. Scored in all games against Arsenal and Barca.

    Please tell me again how he doesn't score in big CL and NT games?
     
  9. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    I mean, they're a very similar level of player it's probably one of the least controversial things he's said.

    Like I think that Cavani's had the better last 2 seasons, but as a player he's become overrated. Especially his off the ball work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  10. bleedblue1223

    bleedblue1223 Registered User

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    Pedro is a great player to have. No point in getting in a big debate over it. He was underappreciated with Barcelona from outsiders. Now he gets hate from people that don't like Chelsea.
     
  11. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Overrated.
    LOL...
     
  12. hatterson

    hatterson Registered User

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    Barely shy of a goal per game pace over the last two years while contributing a ton off the ball. About the only way he's overrated is if you're claiming he's the GOAT.
     
  13. bleedblue1223

    bleedblue1223 Registered User

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    If that's overrated, then I want a bunch of overrated players.
     
  14. les Habs

    les Habs Registered User

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    They're really not a very similar level of player. Never have been.
     
  15. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Frankly, there is only one aspect of Cavani's game that isn't great : his technical ability, either for passing, controlling, etc...

    Imagine if he was better technically, he'd have tons of more goals (because that's why he misses many chances) and more assists.
    Basically, he'd rank among the best players to ever play the game lol.
    Nobody is better at positionning then Cavani today. He's also a great one touch shooter, either with foot or header. Of course, his work off the ball is insane. His elusiveness is undefendable for defensemen. He'll ALWAYS get chances in every game. Of course, since he's not a pure finisher, he misses plenty of them. His instincts are amazing, he feels the game extremely well. He's quite fast and very strong.

    Again, his only flaw is his technique. That doesn't mean he can't make jaw-dropping controls from time to time, but you can bet he'll miss some easy ones too.
     
  16. The Abusement Park

    The Abusement Park Registered User

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    You could say he has the touch of a caveman? :sarcasm:
     
  17. S E P H

    S E P H @SEPH_WHL

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    @les Habs I concede man, your desire to keep this up is quite admirably. I concede not because I think you're right about Pedro, but because I simply don't have the effort to have a long drawn out debate about a player of his akin.

    As @Edo put it, he is a 3rd liner for me in hockey. Of course these players are not useless as we saw Penguins win a Cup with the best 3rd line in the postseason, however I don't get all the love he has. I probably won't ever will....

    As for Cavani, he's definitely better than what Edo thinks about him, but lets be honest as well. Cavani isn't a world beater either. He is an above-average striker who is now a product of Neymar and Mbappe.
     
  18. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    :facepalm:
    No Neymar, no Mbappe last year.
    Look at his stats.
    8 goals in 8 CL games.
    35 goals in 35 L1 games.

    Above average... LOL.
     
  19. The Abusement Park

    The Abusement Park Registered User

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    Above average striker means at the worst top 10 right? Because there’s no way Cavani isn’t an elite striker right now.
     
  20. bleedblue1223

    bleedblue1223 Registered User

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    I get it, if Cavani is above-average, then Pedro is pure garbage. Just trying to frame the other argument.
     
  21. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    Eh...well they're both primarily relied on for their production (again, Cavani's off the ball work is very overstated, aside from his using it to create chances for himself).

    Their total contributions are pretty similar over their careers. Cavani with 299 goals and 55 assists over 486 games (38,202 mins, so a goal or assist every 107 mins) with Higuain having 272 goals, 89 assist over 519 games (only 35,669 mins, a goal or assist every 98 minutes). Internationally Higuain actually has a slightly higher scoring rate (31/69 versus 40/98).

    Ultimately I'd take Cavani for his durability, but Higuain has always been a bit underrated anyway. Saying they've never been a similar level of player seems a bit off though.
     
  22. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Only thing off is you.
    Cavani also spent many years on the wing.
    Of course, you probably didn't even know it.
    You also don't know what his defensive work is. Given your comments "he's using it to create chances". That's so far off, it's not funny.

    In fact, how do you compare Higuain and Suarez? Suarez's better right? No question about it in my mind, just like everyone else here.
    Well, Suarez has 406 goals in 628 games. Including the Eredivisiee where you can score at will. 0.64 goal per game.
    Cavani has 311 in 516, including his multiple seasons at wing. 0.60 goal per game.
    Higuain has 304 in 600. 0.50.

    A bit off. Yeah indeed.

    All stats from Wikipedia.
     
  23. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    BTW, european competitions.
    Higuain has 32 goals in 100 games.
    Cavani has 45 in 69.
    Suarez has 39 in 73.
     
  24. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    I must stress this because it's beyond awful.
    It's as if I was saying "yeah Karlsson's a good defenseman. Too bad he's limited offensively".
    It's like you NEVER saw him play. Not even ONE single game.
    That's not AT ALL what he does. He rarely creates chance for himself, and even less from defensive turnovers.
    Cavani's defensive game isn't about creating turnovers, it's about playing as a DM when his team doesn't have the ball. He balances the wings, pressures players into rushing their passes near the sidelines, sprints back when opponents get counter attacks, defending in his own box on set plays the kick starting counters. Quite often, he plays LB or RB.

    Here's an example of a crazy sprint. He didn't appear on any stat sheet and PSG barely escaped a goal here. But what if he doesn't make the effort?

    EDIT : On the video, the guy points him at the start. He's the guy who runs like Usain Bolt and dives in the box.
     
  25. Live in the Now

    Live in the Now Registered User

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    It's also not like Cavani only did this at one team. Scored 30+ goals a season at Napoli before Insigne was very good.
     

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