GWT: Premier League Match day 29

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Big Kahuna, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. We're aware of an issue with double posting and people are working to fix it. Here's how to avoid it: AFTER YOU HIT THE REPLY/POST BUTTON AND THE TIMER BAND ON THE TOP RIGHT STOPS, ASSUME IT POSTED. DO NOT HIT THE REPLY BUTTON AGAIN. Reload the page and your post will be there. If you are worried about losing the post content, copy it first.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. Jussi

    Jussi Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    74,224
    Likes Received:
    4,531
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    0800-STUFF-JUST-HAPPENS
    88 passes, completion% 87. Won 12 duels of 17. But yes, he is inconsistent as hell. When he's on, he's really on(like vs Arsenal). But far too often he seems to be mailing it in. Earlier in the season wanted to play every minute of every game and earned that hammy.
     
  2. Jussi

    Jussi Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    74,224
    Likes Received:
    4,531
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    0800-STUFF-JUST-HAPPENS
  3. Live in the Now

    Live in the Now Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    45,463
    Likes Received:
    3,020
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Location:
    LA
    Awards:
    Even if McTominay isn't that good, there's still a lot of financial incentive to play him. Can always sell him on like Liverpool did with Kevin Stewart and get a boss fullback for a paltry amount as part of it.
     
  4. Venkman

    Venkman Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    111
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Location:
    England
  5. Il Mediano

    Il Mediano Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    686
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    It’s how poor his decision making and reading of the game is. The fundamental attributes for a top midfielder.

    It’s like he has all the rare qualities down pat , but his foundation is lacking. He’s got the hardest part covered , but what separates the really good from the great midfielders is intelligence.

    Can he improve on that? To a degree , sure. But a large portion is just innate.

    I’d honestly play him at the 10 and let him free. He’s more Ronaldinho than he is Pirlo.
     
  6. Fro

    Fro Cheatin on CBJ w TBL

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    2,084
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Location:
    The Beach, FL
    Dammit palace
     
  7. The Abusement Park

    The Abusement Park Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2016
    Messages:
    15,742
    Likes Received:
    7,673
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Location:
    Denver
    I’d definitely say that intelligence is not the easiest part to “have down”. Intelligence is what separates good players from elite and world class players. Having a elite understanding of the game is what the difference between someone like Nani or Robben. As physically gifted as Ronaldo is, he still has an elite understanding of the game and that’s what makes him special. Pogba clearly has a decent intelligence of the game, but nothing special, and that will keep him from being a consistent top 5 midfielder. Because he has all the physical traits to be the best, but whether he has the intelligence/mentality to take his game to the next level probably isn’t there.
     
  8. Il Mediano

    Il Mediano Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    686
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Yeah, perhaps I worded that incorrectly. What I’m trying to say is he has the physical and technical abilities to make him one of the most unique midfielders of all time. Qualities that intelligent midfielders would die to have.

    So perhaps I conflated “ the hardest part” with just how rare his qualities are. They are far more intelligent midfielders, than there are of Pogba’s gifts.

    He is beyond unique, he just doesn’t have that fundamental base of innate instincts/intelligence.

    Which isn’t to say he can’t still be fantastic, you just can’t rely on him to be the guy pulling the strings or to shield the defence. Let him loose in space and let him create without overthinking everything.

    I feel like Mourinho is trying to make him a complete midfielder, and he’s not. He just has the raw talent to do so.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  9. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    31,462
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Trophy Points:
    139
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Sakho being extremely effective is a generous description.
     
    robertmac43 and All Might like this.
  10. hatterson

    hatterson Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    24,240
    Likes Received:
    3,511
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    North Tonawanda, NY
    I didn’t catch much more than highlights today, so can’t speak to his performance, but he was good in a hard assignment vs Chelsea (only real mistake was letting Willian go, but I think that was becuase he was so focused on Hazard being his man), and he played well against Sevilla too.

    He’s kinda the exact opposite midfielder as Pogba. No flash, no flair, quiet game, but solid and makes a ton of right decisions.
     
  11. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    45,313
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Location:
    France
    Pogba needs a coach that will turn around his career or he'll have a disappointing career.
    Then again, moving to United was an awful move from the get-go, as most of us pointed out when it happenned.
     
  12. The Abusement Park

    The Abusement Park Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2016
    Messages:
    15,742
    Likes Received:
    7,673
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Location:
    Denver
    Had United hired a decent manager I think it would be less of an issue. But the fact that Mourinho is the manager “to take him to the next step” is a failure on United’s part. I think overall United has the players in attack to have one of the best attacks in the league, but they’re so poorly coached in transition and offensively that it affects the whole attack and Pogba since he’s the main man in transition from offense to defense.
     
  13. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    45,313
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Location:
    France
    I did mean the Mourinho factor.
     
  14. hatterson

    hatterson Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    24,240
    Likes Received:
    3,511
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    North Tonawanda, NY
    It’s not so much that they’re poorly coached in transition and on offense, it’s that they’re basically not coached. United’s transition and offensive game seems largely up to the players to figure out
     
  15. Havre

    Havre Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,325
    Likes Received:
    862
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Even if it seems like Mourinho focuses on the defensive side I don't believe that for a second.

    Mourinho has always relied on some special players in the attacking third (fairly common - just listening to Henry on Guardiola's style he as well leaves a lot of it to the players in the last third), but even so some of his teams historically have been well oiled machines. What I can agree to is that his coaching isn't working.
     
  16. hatterson

    hatterson Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    24,240
    Likes Received:
    3,511
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    North Tonawanda, NY
    Not coached is clearly an exaggeration, but just watching their movement you can see they’re either ignoring the coach or he’s not giving them much to work with.

    Players are making conflicting runs, passes are going into space players aren’t remotely ready to occupy, etc.

    It feels exactly like he gives them a rough framework and then says go out and figure the details out yourself.
     
  17. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    31,462
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Trophy Points:
    139
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    United's team is overrated in general. Their offense is really not that great outside of Sanchez. If not for de Gea they would be in a different position.
     
  18. Havre

    Havre Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,325
    Likes Received:
    862
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    To me he seems quite upset at times - indicating he has told them to do something differently then what they are doing. I would be surprised if that is because they are ignoring him - Mourinho will leave players out that are not doing (or at least trying) to do what he wants.

    I mean he lost the team at Chelsea (probably for other reasons), but this is the first time I have seen Mourinho not getting his ideas across to the players when they still kind of seem motivated. I have no idea why. It's quite baffling considering Mourinho's resume.

    I'm not sure. Put a Pogba from his Juventus days and Sanchez from his peak at Arsenal in the current Crystal Palace line-up and your would still have a fairly dangerous team. Much more dangerous than the current Utd-team. Add a Lukaku from Everton, a Shaw from Southampton etc. and you really got something. They just all seem to have played their best football somewhere else (early days for Sanchez of course).
     
  19. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    31,462
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Trophy Points:
    139
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Right, but playing your best football for a different team doesn't mean that you can translate that to a bigger team where you're sharing the spotlight. Teams also play differently against big teams, and teams are set up/structured differently. Everton's entire set-up was built around Lukaku so of course that's going to maximize his play and get the most out of his capabilities (not that he's a bad player, just not a great one). Pogba at Juventus again was much more insulated and had other, better players around him (where he was given less responsibility and more offensive freedom). At United he's relied on to do too much and be their best player which, tbh, like I said before the transfer he'd need to take a big step forward to really claim that mantle of a top 5 midfielder; the talent is there for him but he just doesn't seem to have the footballing brain or competitive drive. Sanchez is the one player I'd said is really proven elite on that team, but he's aging and having to adjust to a new system, new team full of primadonnas and an archaic manager.
     
  20. Havre

    Havre Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,325
    Likes Received:
    862
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    No it doesn't, but that wasn't the initial claim.

    Many players also step up when given more responsibility at a bigger club. Everyone thought Pogba would.

    I do believe Utd got a lot of raw ability in that squad. Not elite like PSG or Barcelona, but if 2+2=5 instead of 3 that still would have been a very good team. On par with CL finalists like AM and Juventus in my opinion - just behind the elite teams. Now they are far far behind as a team.

    Not that is matters much. In the end this is a team game (both AM and Juventus were better teams than the individual players would suggest - even if they obviously had great players as well). For me though the issue is much more that the team doesn't work than not having enough raw ability in that squad.
     
  21. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    31,462
    Likes Received:
    1,500
    Trophy Points:
    139
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    A bunch of people knew that Pogba was going to struggle going to United, and doubted his ability to take the next step under Mourinho (myself included, and others on this board). He'd also been overrated for a while before that because of his physical gifts and technical ability.

    I actually disagree about it being on par with those teams on paper as well, though I agree they're not being coached well I think they've been pretty lucky in general to be where they are (well, lucky might be a strong term...having a WC keeper like de Gea isn't really lucky, but certainly covers up for how poor some of the players/overall play is).

    Still, even though I don't agree with Mourinho's approach and I think it stifles a lot of players his very defensive style does allow United to perhaps punch a bit above their weight in terms of results simply because he relies on de Gea to be their best player (and he is).
     
    All Might likes this.
  22. Havre

    Havre Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,325
    Likes Received:
    862
    Trophy Points:
    109
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    The general consensus was that Pogba was a fantastic player still developing. In any case the Pogba from Juventus had ability and is one of the reasons the Utd squad based on raw ability is a good one.

    If anything I think the squad is underrated. Martial is almost forgotten these days. Rashford looks lost, but another player with some ability. Not that long ago he was, as of course many before him, someone that would be part of the new core in the English national team.

    I guess we won’t agree on this one. In my opinion you are wrongly evaluating the talent of the individual players based on a team that doesn’t work. You’ll probably argue the opposite saying it is because the players aren’t good enough the team doesn’t work. I think I have a strong case with so many players clearly having played better elsewhere quite recently. Not sure why you seem to disagree with that, but you clearly do.
     
  23. East Coast Bias

    East Coast Bias Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    5,354
    Likes Received:
    2,964
    Trophy Points:
    126
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Location:
    NYC
    There's plenty of talent on this squad. It's the coaching 100%.

    The players always look like they just met the night before.

    Fire Mourinho into the sun.
     
  24. hatterson

    hatterson Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    24,240
    Likes Received:
    3,511
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    North Tonawanda, NY
    In fairness to Rashford, he's still barely 20.
     
  25. Jussi

    Jussi Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    74,224
    Likes Received:
    4,531
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 1,200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    0800-STUFF-JUST-HAPPENS
    Mourinho isn't really at fault with Shaw, he's had injury problems throughout his United career. Also Lukaku is more or less having a good season, though he hada dry spell for a while.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"