Predict the top 10 05-06 ROY candidates

[Jason MacIsaac]

Ovehckin has to change his game to suit the North American game, his transition will not be as quick as Crosby. I guess that is your opinion though and I respect that.

 

[JohnnyRyall]

WTF Where did that s** come from? QUOTE]

No offense intended, P.R. ... I actually appreciated your list ... Speaking of which: how do you see Stewart and/or Olesz lining up in '05-'06? Best case scenario, of course ...

 

[Epsilon]

Ovehckin has to change his game to suit the North American game, his transition will not be as quick as Crosby. I guess that is your opinion though and I respect that.

Frankly, the low-scoring, tight-checking, interference-filled games of the RSL are closer to the modern NHL style than the QMJHL is, regardless of the size of the ice. Ovechkin has also performed well in the World Cup which suggests his transition to the NHL will not be an issue.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Frankly, the low-scoring, tight-checking, interference-filled games of the RSL are closer to the modern NHL style than the QMJHL is, regardless of the size of the ice. Ovechkin has also performed well in the World Cup which suggests his transition to the NHL will not be an issue.

Ovechkin was hardly effective for Russia at the WorldCup. He looked weaker then everyone else and smaller. He had 1 nice rice but for the most part he looked average.

 

[Form and Substance]

It's not out of the realm of possibility that Crosby might finish top 10 in scoring next year in the NHL, hell the kid has some of the most unbelievable talent of the last 20 years. He's 5'10 193 lbs, big deal, the kid has a low center of gravity, he's accustomed to this height and plus he's got NHL caliber speed. There are no big holes to his game and he's fairly reliable on the defensive end. Provided he gets a first line job next year, I certainly don't doubt he'll be a ppg player in his rookie year.

 

[kruezer]

This thread is exactly the same as one I saw on this site two years ago while Crosby was playing at Shattucks.

Some posters predicted Crosby would do well in the Q and some even went out on a limb to suggest he might near 100 points. One guy predicted he'd lead the league in scoring and almost got laughed right off the site. There is even one poster who has posted in this very thread today that I remember specifically saying it was assinine to even suggest Crosby would lead the Q in points and that if he got 80 points it would be an incredible year. After a CHL high 135 points, CHL Rookie of the Year award and CHL PLayer of the Year award, I didn't see too many people admitting how wrong they were.

I'm not saying Crosby will lead the NHL in scoring in his rookie year, but every time Crosby has advanced to the next level he has dominated it much more than most people expected. It happened when he left the Maritime AAA Midget League, it happened when he left Shattucks and it's happening again as he's leaving the Q. Don't underestimate this kid, his skill is unreal.

I distinctly remember that as well. I'm not going to go out and doubt Crosby now, I personally wouldn't predict that he would be top 10 in the league in scoring in his rookie year, but I wouldn't exactly be surprised if he was, nothing surprises me with Crosby anymore.

 

[Chimaera]

Ovechkin was hardly effective for Russia at the WorldCup. He looked weaker then everyone else and smaller. He had 1 nice rice but for the most part he looked average.

What game were you watching?


Ovechkin looked fine in the WC. He had a few good solid scoring chances, played hard at both ends of the ice, something Crosby has trouble doing consistently, (which makes sense considering his offensive output) and did not look out of place for a 18 year old with men 5-10 years his senior.

In the RSL, he's easily holding his own this year, contributing more than some NHL stars are over there. Last year he was voted the best LW (though I'm not sure how well that vote was held) but... in either case, he's certainly playing well over there.

Would Crosby do the same in the RSL? I'm not sure. Crosby's probably a bigger liability in his own end, not to mention lacks the physical game that Ovechkin will bring.


I think that if Ovechkin was in the Q he would easily put up numbers near the top of the league. Maybe not in the top 3, but certainly top 10. The guy has that much talent. It's just a matter that he's not always looking to score, but seems to want to play at both ends of the ice just as much as he wants to create offensive chances. No, he's not an excellent 2 way player yet, but I think he's got the potential to go both ways better than Crosby can do at this point in his career. And the RSL is the second best league in the World, when the NHL is playing. Lower scoring yes, fewer games yes, but that doesn't make it lower than the Q.

As for who could put up the most points in their rookie year, I really think that Ovechkin is more adjusted to do so from the start. He's been playing with people who are physically bigger than he is for the last 2-3 years, and has shown it playing amongst men, instead of playing amongst other boys in the Q. At 5-10 a buck 85, his size is not going to make that much of a difference. In the NHL, that's borderline small for a Centerman. Yes, he's gifted enough that eventually it shouldn't matter. But I don't think from day one his size is going to lean itself to him being a significant factor.

Large physical defensemen and forwards are going to give him problems at the start. Till he is able to get the seperation he will need to create chances. In the long run, maybe 2-3 years, If Crosby continues to work hard, and ends up on a developing team, he will put up more numbers than Ovechkin can. He has an unbelievable amount of talent, and a promising future, no one is denying that. I just think it is going to be hard to get the Rookie of the Year coming from the start.


And I'd like to also extend a vote against Lehtonen being the Rookie of the Year coming in. He has the talent, and on a quality team, he would probably win it. but with that horrid defense that Atlanta has, he'll be facing 40-50 shots minimum every game. Probably giving up at least 4-5. Those aren't the types of numbers a guy can win the rookie award with.

As for who'll get it, I don't know. There are a lot of possibilities, but it'll probably be a decent forward on a bad team. Someone most people aren't suspecting.

 

[Slay]

Ovehckin has to change his game to suit the North American game, his transition will not be as quick as Crosby. I guess that is your opinion though and I respect that.

IMO, NHL sized rinks and style of play suits pretty well to Ovechkin. BTW he is a 6th in RSL in scoring.

 

[Tb0ne]

Dream season?

I couldn't think of anything better for the NHL's return from a lockout or from a partial season the previous year than for Sidney Crosby to come in, in his rookie year and be the leading scorer on his team. It's a great story either way if he signs with his childhood favourite team the Montreal Canadians which is about a kid who gets to play for the team he loves, or the story about him going to the highest bidder, and onto the bright lights of Broadway, to a Lineup still featuring Mark Messier (maybe as a coach).


Here's my crazy prediction :
I'll go abit crazy, and say if it's the story where there is no season, and Brule's dream is to play for Vancouver... and he's a UFA and signs with his hometown. He is slotted into the lineup with Top line talent like the Sedin's, Bertuzzi, Naslund, Morrison. Brule is in the top 10 in NHL scoring (by some maricle he gets onto the 2nd line and the Sedin's turn into mini-forsbergs).

Here's my craziest prediction :
Hoping to grow hockey in non tradition markets like Grezky did, but also hoping to grow with a top group of young players, Sidney Crosby signs with the Atlanta Thrashers. The K-H-C line terrifies the weaker teams in it's division and brings it's team up the eastern conference standings. Now with two powerhouse teams in non tradition markets (Atlanta and Tampa Bay) hockey's southern expansion experiment begins to pan out. Crosby leads the NHL in scoring in his Rookie year, the next great one has arrived..... (wouldn't that just be an awesome story for the NHL?)



Top 10 05-06 ROY candidates : (more crazyness)

1. Ovechkin.
2. Malkin.
3. Phaneuf
4. Lehtonen
5. Crosby
6. Fleury
7. Olez
8. Schremp
9. Brule
10. Koltsov

 

[Jacob]

Can't believe this guy is still carrying the hype with those IMPORTANT injuries

Couldn't agree more. 3 major knee surgeries after being only 18 months removed from draft day. I can't really think of a worse development path.

I no longer see Michalek sticking in the NHL. He's just missed way too much crucial development time. Nevermind the damage to his skating edge and his playing mentality.

And he's STILL not yet healthy.

 

[Epsilon]

I couldn't think of anything better for the NHL's return from a lockout or from a partial season the previous year than for Sidney Crosby to come in, in his rookie year and be the leading scorer on his team. It's a great story either way if he signs with his childhood favourite team the Montreal Canadians which is about a kid who gets to play for the team he loves, or the story about him going to the highest bidder, and onto the bright lights of Broadway, to a Lineup still featuring Mark Messier (maybe as a coach).


Here's my crazy prediction :
I'll go abit crazy, and say if it's the story where there is no season, and Brule's dream is to play for Vancouver... and he's a UFA and signs with his hometown. He is slotted into the lineup with Top line talent like the Sedin's, Bertuzzi, Naslund, Morrison. Brule is in the top 10 in NHL scoring (by some maricle he gets onto the 2nd line and the Sedin's turn into mini-forsbergs).

Here's my craziest prediction :
Hoping to grow hockey in non tradition markets like Grezky did, but also hoping to grow with a top group of young players, Sidney Crosby signs with the Atlanta Thrashers. The K-H-C line terrifies the weaker teams in it's division and brings it's team up the eastern conference standings. Now with two powerhouse teams in non tradition markets (Atlanta and Tampa Bay) hockey's southern expansion experiment begins to pan out. Crosby leads the NHL in scoring in his Rookie year, the next great one has arrived..... (wouldn't that just be an awesome story for the NHL?)

This is out there even for the standards of this board. Once again, not counting pseudo-rookies like Gretzky and Stastny, ONE rookie, Teemu Selanne, has broken into the top 10 NHL scorers in the last 25 years. And two are supposed to do it in one season?

 

[Tb0ne]

Oh obviously I'm not actually expecting any of that to happen..

 

[JohnnyRyall]

Here's my crazy prediction :
I'll go abit crazy, and say if it's the story where there is no season, and Brule's dream is to play for Vancouver... and he's a UFA and signs with his hometown. He is slotted into the lineup with Top line talent like the Sedin's, Bertuzzi, Naslund, Morrison. Brule is in the top 10 in NHL scoring (by some maricle he gets onto the 2nd line and the Sedin's turn into mini-forsbergs).

Here's my craziest prediction :
Hoping to grow hockey in non tradition markets like Grezky did, but also hoping to grow with a top group of young players, Sidney Crosby signs with the Atlanta Thrashers. The K-H-C line terrifies the weaker teams in it's division and brings it's team up the eastern conference standings. Now with two powerhouse teams in non tradition markets (Atlanta and Tampa Bay) hockey's southern expansion experiment begins to pan out. Crosby leads the NHL in scoring in his Rookie year, the next great one has arrived..... (wouldn't that just be an awesome story for the NHL?)



Top 10 05-06 ROY candidates : (more crazyness)

1. Ovechkin.
2. Malkin.
3. Phaneuf
4. Lehtonen
5. Crosby
6. Fleury
7. Olez
8. Schremp
9. Brule
10. Koltsov

Crazy? Sure ... but a fun read nonetheless.

So what's the crazy scenario you envision for Koltsov? It's been a while since I've heard his name tossed around in these kinds of discussions ...

 

[PanthersRule96]

No offense intended, P.R. ... I actually appreciated your list ... Speaking of which: how do you see Stewart and/or Olesz lining up in '05-'06? Best case scenario, of course ...

k, none taken then I guess

Stewart will be 3rd line to start the year, maybe 4th, but should and will be given a chance to work his way up to the top 2 lines. He will be in the same boat Horton was last year and will get every opportunity to succeed.

I don't know if Olesz will be over in NA yet in 05-06. I tihnk the panthers would bring him over and potentially put him in the AHL. He could see time as the 3rd line center behind Weiss and JOkinen with wingers line Kolnik or Berglund, and be a solid rookie as he's already good both way.

Stewart best case scenario: 2nd line, maybe 1rst line with Horton and Jokinen, producing around 40 points his rookie year, maybe less, maybe more.

Worst case: Either in San Antonio or playing on the fourth line. (Doubtfull this would happen as when I saw him in the preseason, he created offense all over playing on a line with Darcy Hordichuk and I forget who else.

Olesz best case: 2nd/3rd line center used on the second powerplay unit scoring like 15 goals and like 20 assists. Could be better though. I think he could surprise many including myself.

Worst case: 3rd line center not used in offensive situations, or playing in San Antonio scoring and being their best player.

JasonMacIsaac, I fail to see how Ovechkin would have to really adjust his game to a NA style? He's big, hit a lot, and has speed. I think he would do better on a north American surface if not at least the same.

He was great at the world cup in the ridiculous limited icetime he received. He did look a bit smaller than most, but still was extremely fast and ultra skilled. I think he'll do fine in the NHL.

Man, I forgot Brule

 

[JohnnyRyall]

Man, I forgot Brule

You think Brule steps into the NHL in '05-'06?

 

[JohnnyRyall]

I don't know if Olesz will be over in NA yet in 05-06. I tihnk the panthers would bring him over and potentially put him in the AHL. He could see time as the 3rd line center behind Weiss and JOkinen with wingers line Kolnik or Berglund, and be a solid rookie as he's already good both way.

Olesz best case: 2nd/3rd line center used on the second powerplay unit scoring like 15 goals and like 20 assists. Could be better though. I think he could surprise many including myself.

Worst case: 3rd line center not used in offensive situations, or playing in San Antonio scoring and being their best player.

And seeing as how Jokinen and Weiss are both still young, will it take one of them not signing and/or the other flopping to give Olesz some quality ice-time? Or can he shift to wing? Or will he press one of the above for a spot on a scoring line?

 

[PanthersRule96]

And seeing as how Jokinen and Weiss are both still young, will it take one of them not signing and/or the other flopping to give Olesz some quality ice-time? Or can he shift to wing? Or will he press one of the above for a spot on a scoring line?

no, none will be pressboxed. Olesz can play wing as well, but he's a strong center. I think starting him out on the 3rd line is what Martin will do, but Martin likes 2 way play and Weiss and Olesz and Jokinen are all great potential centers, Jokinen already a star. Olesz will be able to work his way up. He may play on the 3rd line with Nedorost, Kreps, or as I said earlier, Berglund or Kolnik. The lines will probably be something to this effect:

Huselius*-Jokinen-Free Agent winger (star player maybe)
Nedorost-Weiss-Horton
Berglund/Kolnik-Olesz-Stewart
The fourth line would be players from the following group, whoever wins a spot:
Hordichuk, Campbell, Olson, Globke, Taticek, Hagman

Even if it's a young team, I think FLA could be solid. Kolnik-Olesz-Stewart could be a good line as it has a mix of skill sets. The second line was awesome last year, and Jokinen, a player like Demitra, Kovalev, Bondra, etc... and Huselius if he plays like he did his first 2 months of his 1rst and 2nd years, when he was outplaying Kovalchuk and Heatley untill he was hurt, could be a good line.

*-if he regains form which I think he has. See his Swedish stats, they're unreal. 3rd in league scoring and he's played 10 less games.

I think Brule would be just outside the top 10 in calder race. He'd be with guys like Carter and Getzlaf, etc.. like from 10-15. Olesz could get a chance though to play on the top line if he performs.

 

[PanthersRule96]

And seeing as how Jokinen and Weiss are both still young, will it take one of them not signing and/or the other flopping to give Olesz some quality ice-time? Or can he shift to wing? Or will he press one of the above for a spot on a scoring line?

Jokinen's 25 turning 26 and has proven himself a consistent NHL producer with 2 good years and now tearing up the Swedish league after tearing up the Swiss league.

Weiss has already shown what he's capable of. It's just a matter of him performing throughout the year. For 20 games, he was on a PPG pace. He had like 22 points in 20 games I think it was. He won't be knocked off by Olesz IMO yet. He won't flop either. He's a safe prospect right now and will at least be an above average 3rd liner and that's at absolute least. He looks like he'll be a borderline 1rst line/great 2nd liner player.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

No love for Malkin? He is has progressed as much as you would want this year, and by next year will be matured enough to compete, though I will grant that he would be less favored than the top three, I would put him no lower than 4. The stats for him thus far this year, in a league where scoring is traditionally very low:

Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM

2003-04 Magnitogorsk Metallurg Russia 34 3 9 12 12

2004-05 Magnitogorsk Metallurg Russia 32 6 13 19 16

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=77329

 

[Jacob]

Lots of people have mentioned Malkin.

 

[JohnnyRyall]

No love for Malkin? He is has progressed as much as you would want this year, and by next year will be matured enough to compete, though I will grant that he would be less favored than the top three, I would put him no lower than 4. The stats for him thus far this year, in a league where scoring is traditionally very low:

Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM

2003-04 Magnitogorsk Metallurg Russia 34 3 9 12 12

2004-05 Magnitogorsk Metallurg Russia 32 6 13 19 16

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=77329

Everybody loves Malkin. But from what I gather, the question is whether he comes to PIT in '05-'06 ... no?

 

[Chimaera]

If he plays for Pitt, and Mario plays more than 50 games, he wins it easily.


Ol' Mario will put Malkin on his line to 'boost his confidence' (kinda like he did with a player named Kris Beech, who also was too thin, too tall, more of a passer... hmmmmmmmm, ) and basically get his numbers way up. Sell some tickets by having the Pitt fans think they've really got a hold of something.


Heck, I could probably score at least 20 goals and 35 assists skating with Mario night in, night out. I can see it now, hey boss, you do what you want with the puck, i'm going to skate over here.