Pre-WWII ATD Draft - Sign-ups & Preliminary discussions

[BenchBrawl]

This was @VanIslander 's idea.

Draft of pre-WWII players, exact cutoff to be determined.

Clock will start Wednesday November 8th at noon.

Teams will draft 12 forwards, 6 defensemen, 2 goalies, 1 coach. No spare.

GM/TEAM
1. tinyzombies - Montreal Wanderers
2. BenchBrawl - Seattle Metropolitans
3. Claude The Fraud - TBA
4. Professor What - Ottawa Senators
5. jigglysquishy - Regina Capitals
6. seventieslord - Regina Pats
7. Habsfan18 - Portage Lakes Hockey Club
8. rmartin65 - Montreal Victorias
9. Dr John Carlson - Halifax Crescents
10.
11.

VanIslander???

Click to read more...

 

[BenchBrawl]

Can someone give me a rundown on what happens after the draft? Does someone just pick the best roster and that guy won?

We'll probably have playoffs.

So, regular season vote, then 1 on 1 playoff series of a format to be determined by the number of teams.

 

[tinyzombies]

Actually, I should change my name to something more thematic instead of geographical so I will take:


Montreal wanderers

 

[rmartin65]

I'll make my team-name the Montreal Victorias (Russell Bowie FTW)

As for the Dit Clapper conundrum- what if instead of making a right-tail cut-off, we look at the left? In other words, we make the cut-off something like "must have debuted in a major league by (for example) 1927 to be eligible".

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'll make my team-name the Montreal Victorias (Russell Bowie FTW)

As for the Dit Clapper conundrum- what if instead of making a right-tail cut-off, we look at the left? In other words, we make the cut-off something like "must have debuted in a major league by (for example) 1927 to be eligible".

Sounds like a great idea.

I suggest either the 1935-1936 or the 1936-1937 season.

Or is that too late? Do we want guys like Syl Apps Sr. in?

 

[Habsfan18]

Sounds like a great idea.

I suggest either the 1935-1936 or the 1936-1937 season.

Or is that too late? Do we want guys like Syl Apps Sr. in?

I’d say so, yes. That works for me.

My guess is we’ll end up with 10-12 teams. We wouldn’t want a cutoff too early, or we’ll be picking from really low quality players in the latter rounds. 35-36 or 36-37 is a nice cutoff, IMO.

 

[BenchBrawl]

My only fear is I don't want the pre-1910 guys to get buried under a pile of borderline Original Sixers like Apps. I'm still not sure how many players that really is though.

Also, I was looking forward to a draft where a guy like say Frank Fredrickson is a #1 center, and not pushed down by the likes of Apps and Cowley. But that's subjective. I'm fine either way.

True that if we get to 12+ teams, we'll need a larger pool of players.

 

[rmartin65]

Yeah, the big draw for me is the "pre" part of pre-WWII. I don't mind if we have guys (like Clapper) who ended up their last couple/non-prime years during WWII, but Apps was very clearly (IMO, at least) still at his best during the War years (if we are using the 1 September 1939 date to mark the start of WWII).

EDIT- I'll retract my comment about Clapper being post-prime during WWII. He was still going strong there in the early 1940s, wasn't he.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Yeah, the big draw for me is the "pre" part of pre-WWII. I don't mind if we have guys (like Clapper) who ended up their last couple/non-prime years during WWII, but Apps was very clearly (IMO, at least) still at his best during the War years (if we are using the 1 September 1939 date to mark the start of WWII).

EDIT- I'll retract my comment about Clapper being post-prime during WWII. He was still going strong there in the early 1940s, wasn't he.

Clapper was known for his extreme longevity, so he's still essentially a 1930s player in my book.

He got AST recognition in 1931.

 

[rmartin65]

Clapper was known for his extreme longevity, so he's still essentially a 1930s player in my book.

He got AST recognition in 1931.

Yeah, he’s in, in my opinion. I was merely correcting the inaccuracy in my post with that edit.

 

[Professor What]

I'll play along with the theme of teams, and I'll be the Ottawa Senators. (The original Senators, of course.)

 

[Habsfan18]

Why don’t we just come up with something like “if player A played more than X number of games after the end of WWII, he’s ineligible.”

Or is that oversimplifying it?

 

[BenchBrawl]

Yeah, he’s in, in my opinion. I was merely correcting the inaccuracy in my post with that edit.

Harder to judge is someone like Sweeney Schriner. Started his career in 1935, peaked right away in the late-1930s. My gut feeling, he should be in.

But is that true of all players who started in 1935? I don't know. Toe Blake feels Apps-like to me, and he started in 1935.

 

[seventieslord]

Sounds like a great idea.

I suggest either the 1935-1936 or the 1936-1937 season.

Or is that too late? Do we want guys like Syl Apps Sr. in?

My gut says apps should be out, as he did a lot of his damage after the war as well. But we're getting very close to where I think the cutoff should be.

What if it was everybody born through the end of 1913? If that was the line, are there any players who intuitively feel like they would be caught on the wrong side of it?

 

[rmartin65]

My gut says apps should be out, as he did a lot of his damage after the war as well. But we're getting very close to where I think the cutoff should be.

What if it was everybody born through the end of 1913? If that was the line, are there any players who intuitively feel like they would be caught on the wrong side of it?

Born through 1913 looks good to me. Cowley (1912) being in bothers me a little bit, but it’s not heinous. Hextall (1913) also seems off to me.

1912 maybe?

 

[BenchBrawl]

If we go with born through 1911, who do we lose that we want in?

Earl Seibert born in December 1911 = IN

Sweeney Schriner born in November 1911 = IN

Syd Howe born in September 1911 = IN

Toe Blake born in August 1912 = OUT

Bill Cowley born in June 1912 = OUT

That feels intuitively right.

No one in there I really care about: List of all the NHL Players Born in 1912 | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Habsfan18]

Born through 1913 looks good to me. Cowley (1912) being in bothers me a little bit, but it’s not heinous. Hextall (1913) also seems off to me.

1912 maybe?

Toe Blake is a 1912, for the record. Are we good with including him?

 

[Habsfan18]

If we go with born through 1911, who do we lose that we want in?

Earl Seibert born in December 1911 = IN

Sweeney Schriner born in November 1911 = IN

Syd Howe born in September 1911 = IN

Toe Blake born in August 1912 = OUT

Bill Cowley born in June 1912 = OUT

That feels intuitively right.

No one in there I really care about: List of all the NHL Players Born in 1912 | Hockey-Reference.com

Busher Jackson is a 1911 too. He’d obviously be in this though since the vast majority of his career was 1930’s.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Yeah, based on the lists on H-R, I'd go with born through 1911.

Greatest injustice would be perhaps Eddie Wiseman, but who cares.

 

[Habsfan18]

Yeah, based on the lists on H-R, I'd go with born through 1911.

Greatest injustice would be perhaps Eddie Wiseman, but who cares.

No Wiseman? This is bullshit. I’m out.

Kidding, of course.

Born through 1911 is perfect for what we’re looking for, IMO.

That’s a yes vote from me.

 

[seventieslord]

Born through 1913 looks good to me. Cowley (1912) being in bothers me a little bit, but it’s not heinous. Hextall (1913) also seems off to me.

1912 maybe?

Hextall would count as pre-war and would be eligible if we used end of 1913. And wouldn't that be correct?

 

[rmartin65]

Hextall would count as pre-war and would be eligible if we used end of 1913. And wouldn't that be correct?

He only played 2 full seasons before the start of the war, and all of his post season all-star seasons were during the war.

I won’t have a fit if he’s included, but I personally don’t think of him as a pre-war player.

 

[seventieslord]

He only played 2 full seasons before the start of the war, and all of his post season all-star seasons were during the war.

I won’t have a fit if he’s included, but I personally don’t think of him as a pre-war player.

the original idea (which I was by no means saying we should stick to) was for players whose careers ended before WW2 ended in 1945. by that measure he seems 100% eligible.

 

[rmartin65]

the original idea (which I was by no means saying we should stick to) was for players whose careers ended before WW2 ended in 1945. by that measure he seems 100% eligible.

Ah, I must have misread it then; I was working under the assumption that we were drafting from players whose careers had largely concluded by the start of WWII.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I saw it more in the spirit of pre-O6.

I'm good with whatever we decide to do.