Post Your 2020 Draft List

[NA Hockey]

Other than Holtz’s shot nothing else is Elite .

He got to puberty early and had a physical advantage over people that got the hype machine rolling at a young age. Many people believe he has plateaued and that the upside just isnt there long term. That is why at one point he was considered for 1OA and now many people have him outside of top 5 and some even outside of top 10

As for Nybeck, nice player but does not posses enough Elite qualities to be ranked high at 5’7
He is not Caufield, Debrincat or Gaudreau with an a ability to do something better than everyone else and look where they got drafted. He won’t go higher than Caufield just went this year guaranteed.

 

[AB13]

Ranking the Swedish players is much harder for this draft. I expect a ton of movement.

1. Lucas Raymond - Easy choice at this point. Best puck skills, good motor and edge work. Really smart player but I wouldn't say his IQ is quite at an elite level. Overall a very good offensive player who can score goals and set up plays but he also works hard all over the ice.

2. Zion Nybeck - Don't think he will be picked top-2 among Swedish players but he became my personal favorite this spring. You don't often see players with high end motor who at the same time is able to read the game at an elite level. I see him as a Crosby-esque player who doesn't need to be flashy to put up big numbers. Nybeck is a thick kid who works extremely hard, is strong on his skates and is able to handle the puck close to his body. He's probably more of a playmaker but he can finish as well.

3. Noel Gunler - Opposite of Nybeck in many ways. He knows where to go to score goals and his wrist shot is the best of this group, better than Holtz imo. His skating is not bad but not great. My main concern is his intensity level. He's very passive a lot of times and needs to be more involved, there is some Alex Nylander in him. Gunler is not physically mature so maybe he'll grow some more. He's also in a good position to get solid SHL minutes next season with time on the PP.

4. Alexander Holtz - Not my favorite player here. You could make the argument that he has the highest upside but there are too many holes in his game I think. Limited puck skills, average skater at best. What bothers me most is his decision making when he gets under pressure, his awareness is not there and those blind plays he so often makes are never going to work in the SHL, let alone NHL. He needs to simplify his game a lot. On the positive side, Holtz is a hard worker and his goal scoring instincts are elite. Doesn't matter if he has a good or bad game, he will still score at the junior level.

5a. Helge Grans - Defensive horse. Could see him move up to #2 on this list. Big, thick defenseman with a strong stride. He'll be the go-to guy on the Swedish U18 team and will get top PP & PK minutes. More offensively gifted version of Tobias Björnfot.

5b. William Wallinder - Haven't seen him nearly as much as the other players but he looked really, really good late this season on the U17 national team. Wasn't used much in offensive situations so not sure if he's an OEL or Marcus Pettersson. Really tall player with a super long reach and good stick work defensively. Very good passer.

6. Emil Andrae - Most skilled D-man. His play on the blue line is excellent, seen him fake out guys like crazy. Not very big and only an average skater though. He could also jump up this list if he improves his explosiveness.

I really don't think Holtz has limited puck skills, his puck skills and playmaking are very good in my eyes. and he usually makes the right decision from what I have seen. His skating isn't that great. but slightly above average I would say.

 

[NA Hockey]

I have not watched Drysdale much but I do not see much offensive upside with him, I am not sure if he has the creativity and shot to run a power play for example. His skating is great and his defensive game is solid but I do not see any real standout ability at all besides his skating.

With Foudy, he does not really have close to the skill or playmaking of some other forwards in this class in my eyes. His skill and playmaking is decent but not much more. I do not see anything special at all yet besides skating but Inreally have not seen too much.

Does Gunler have attidute issues? I have not heard of that. The reason he was left off the U18 was because the coach for some reason thought role players where more useful. His shot, skating and skill is through the roof, and his production is Superelit and the SHL is insane.

Alexander Holtz has a lot more than just an elite shot. His hands and skill level are elite, his playmaking is very underrated and extremely good, he plays with great intensity and compete level and has a good defensive game along other good agility and solid speed. He is very well rounded.

You make a good point about Perfetti and Rossi, Perfettis skating really is a huge concern. I do also think they are overhyped
but their skill and production is way too good
to be ranked that low.

So basically you dont like the OHL and the Euros are amazing.
Have never heard Drysdale described as not creative enough and Foudy as not a good enough playmaker. Both elite players.

 

[AB13]

Other than Holtz’s shot nothing else is Elite .

He got to puberty early and had a physical advantage over people that got the hype machine rolling at a young age. Many people believe he has plateaued and that the upside just isnt there long term. That is why at one point he was considered for 1OA and now many people have him outside of top 5 and some even outside of top 10

As for Nybeck, nice player but does not posses enough Elite qualities to be ranked high at 5’7
He is not Caufield, Debrincat or Gaudreau with an a ability to do something better than everyone else and look where they got drafted. He won’t go higher than Caufield just went this year guaranteed.

Nybeck is a more well rounded player than Caufield, Gaudreau and Debrincat at his age, he really has no weaknesses at all. He is a great skater with amazing hands and playmaking, but plays a tough and physical game and usually wins duels against players much bigger than him. He never gets bullied around due to size like the others you mentioned. I am not sure if Nybeck doesn't have the Elite offensive attributes of Caufield, Gaudreau and DeBrincat, he is not far from it atleast. I think he will go around where Caufield went, possibly a little higher since he is bigger and more well rounded. Caufield should have gone top 5 though.

 

[bigdog16]

He's not way ahead. Nowhere near a McDavid, not even a Matthews or Dahlin level of prospect a year before the draft. He's in the Hughes, Svechnikov, Kakko category. I'd say there's about a 40% chance he goes 1OA. I think 1OA is far from decided at this point, but he is the favorite to go 1OA.

Agreed on Lafreniere, im not as high on him as most are. Definitely the favorite to go #1 but I think there are a few players with the ability to overtake his position. Lafreniere actually has an overall game that translates well to the NHL, but I dont think he ever ends up as a top 10 point guy or anything

 

[Starry Knight]

Drysdale is closer to 1 than 3, in my opinion. Great defensemen whose game is reminiscent of Drew Doughty. Foudy is one of the best skaters I've ever seen, and thats not hyperbolic. He also has very good skill and playmaking. I might be too low on his game. Of all the players I have ranked outside the top five, I think he has the best chance to challenge for 1OA. Poirier has great potential. His stats and role this season were lower than his ability level. He'll rise on lists that have him outside the top 10.

I'm less of a fan of Barron, but he's still a good player who I think as of now looks like he projects as some sort of top pairing D. How high is his hockey IQ and how well does he defend? I don't think he's bad in either category, but I don't know if he's good enough in either category to be a 1D. Gunler has attitude questions that could hold back his draft position, he's shown absolutely nothing playing for Sweden, and the skating is a weakness. I could certainly see him moving up in my rankings, but right now I wouldn't put him inside the top ten. I like Nybeck and Grans, but its a very deep draft class. There are too many players I thought should be in the range 5-10 slots higher, but couldn't place them in those slots. I think this is an extremely deep draft early on from about 10-60.

With Holtz, I just don't see much that is better than slightly above-average, aside from his shot. And if thats so, what degree are we talking about with his shot? If the rest of his game isn't elite, he better be Ovechkin level or Laine level where you can safely say he's a 40 goal per season guy to project as a top five pick. Is he closer to players such as Wahlstrom, Tippett, Caufield who have elite shots but aren't sure thing generational goal scorers? I'd say he's closer to the latter category. I tend to think he's one of the more overhyped players in this draft class. I think the discussion surrounding him centers too much on his previous reputation where he was considered the frontrunner for 1OA with Lafreniere.

Smaller players without great skating is the issue for Rossi and Perfetti. Both also had their point totals inflated compared to some other players in this draft class because they played on good teams this season.

I definitely agree with Drysdale. As a 16yo in the OHL, he had the poise of a 19yo and has an outstanding toolset.

I disagree on your assessment of Perfetti though. His skating isn't elite, but I don't think it'll be bad enough to hold him back at higher levels. I would call him an average skater and skating is something that usually improves in the transition between a players 16yo and 17yo season. What's important to note about Perfetti, is that he and Wilde were the drivers of the play in Saginaw. Tippett and McLeod are decent players, but they are North/South players, who are at their best off the rush or when another player on their team is controlling the puck for them. Perfetti almost always was the one holding onto the puck in the zone when Saginaw was set up, and with his elite shot/stickhandling/passing, he would make any OHL defense look porous.

 

[AB13]

So basically you dont like the OHL and the Euros are amazing.
Have never heard Drysdale described as not creative enough and Foudy as not a good enough playmaker. Both elite players.

I like plenty of players from the OHL. The euros look a lot stronger in 2020 though, unlike in 2019.

Calling Foudy an elite player seems absolutely ridiculous looking at what he has done so far. He has elite skating but nothing else, not great playmaking and a poor shot with below average physicality. His production was not impressive at all, very underwhelming.

 

[Starry Knight]

I like plenty of players from the OHL. The euros look a lot stronger in 2020 though, unlike in 2019.

Calling Foudy an elite player seems absolutely ridiculous looking at what he has done so far. He has elite skating but nothing else, not great playmaking and a poor shot with below average physicality. His production was not impressive at all, very underwhelming.

JL Foudy's production as a 16yo in the OHL was anything but underwhelming. And elite isn't even a strong enough word to describe his skating, because he's really in a tier of his own.

Also, calling out a 16yo for having "below average physicality" is just bizarre. He's a skinny 16 year old in a league of 19 year olds. Puberty has just finished for Foudy. He's not going to be able to outmuscle 19 year olds with 4 years of physical training in the OHL.

 

[AB13]

JL Foudy's production as a 16yo in the OHL was anything but underwhelming. And elite isn't even a strong enough word to describe his skating, because he's really in a tier of his own.

Also, calling out a 16yo for having "below average physicality" is just bizarre. He's a skinny 16 year old in a league of 19 year olds. Puberty has just finished for Foudy. He's not going to be able to outmuscle 19 year olds with 4 years of physical training in the OHL.

The physicality is not even close to a problem, you are right about that, it is easy to do something about, but I was just pointing out that it is not a strong aspect of his game now.

He scored 49 points and 8 goals, that is not close to enough be considered a top 10 prospect over someone like Perfetti or Rossi who heavily outscored him, or the Euros like Raymond, Gunler, Holtz, Nybeck or Stültze who had close to historic junior seasons, or someone like Lundell who scored 19 points in the Liiga. There are many prospects with much more skill and a much more well rounded game than Foudy has so far.

 

[Starry Knight]

The physicality is not even close to a problem, you are right about that, it is easy to do something about, but I was just pointing out that it is not a strong aspect of his game now.

He scored 49 points and 8 goals, that is not close to enough be considered a top 10 prospect over someone like Perfetti or Rossi who heavily outscored him, or the Euros like Raymond, Gunler, Holtz, Nybeck or Stültze who had close to historic junior seasons, or someone like Lundell who scored 19 points in the Liiga. There are many prospects with much more skill and a much more well rounded game than Foudy has so far.

For his class, he's definitely in the shadow of other players, but 49 points is very good for a 16 year old. For context, it's more than Gabe Vilardi, Nick Suzuki, and Morgan Frost got in their rookie seasons in 2015-16.

 

[Bologna 1]

Cross Hanas a name to keep an eye on. US born winger who played with Portland last season.

 

[OldScool]

Comparing last years stats from league to league, country to country is such a waste of time. Some 16 year old played on lines with 19/20 year old NHL drafted players and some played on teams that were entirely made up of just 16 year olds. Its apples and oranges.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I'm just looking forward to a draft year where American/Finnish posters can take a back seat.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Lundell will go first because he's a center.

 

[AB13]

For his class, he's definitely in the shadow of other players, but 49 points is very good for a 16 year old. For context, it's more than Gabe Vilardi, Nick Suzuki, and Morgan Frost got in their rookie seasons in 2015-16.

Gabe Vilardi, Nick Suzuki and Morgan Frost where not top 10 picks, and would not come close to the top 10 in a redraft. I don’t expect Foudy to be a top 10 pick either.

 

[AB13]

Lundell will go first because he's a center.

He is good but I would be very surprised if he goes over Lafreniere or Raymond who are much more skilled despite position

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Lundell will go first because he's a center.

Hold your horses.
Lundell won't go 1st overall that position is cemented to Lafreniere and nothing won't change it.
Even TOP3 selection is right now too optimistic for Lundell.

Lundell goes TOP5 / TOP10 range.
If he can prove himself better than Byfield, Raymond and Holtz maybe then he can rise TOP3.

But before that happens Lundell needs to play his draft season as well as a Kakko did this year.
And he needs to be much better what he was in U18 WJC's this past April.

As a huge HIFK fan i hate to say this and i'm sorry if this hurts.
Lundell isn't franchise changing prospect like Lafreniere.

He's good and promising young Center.
But he isn't necessarily franchise center like Matthews, McDavid or Barkov.

 

[Dominance]

The physicality is not even close to a problem, you are right about that, it is easy to do something about, but I was just pointing out that it is not a strong aspect of his game now.

He scored 49 points and 8 goals, that is not close to enough be considered a top 10 prospect over someone like Perfetti or Rossi who heavily outscored him, or the Euros like Raymond, Gunler, Holtz, Nybeck or Stültze who had close to historic junior seasons, or someone like Lundell who scored 19 points in the Liiga. There are many prospects with much more skill and a much more well rounded game than Foudy has so far.

I’m going to stop you right there. 16 year old point scoring matters very little when the situations differ so greatly.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

I don't know about others in this board in my opinion these are key questions of Anton Lundell's draft position.
1 Can he score more points in liiga and U20 WJC's than Raymond and Holtz will score in SHL and U20 WJC's.
2 Is Lundell able to outplay Raymond and Holtz in the battle of honor being first drafted European prospect
3 Can Lundell carry HIFK's offence and score 40+ points and show progress in offensive production
4 Can he better what he was in 2019 U20 WJC's and U18 WJC's.
5 Can he show that the comparisons to Barkov are real

 

[bigdog16]

Gabe Vilardi, Nick Suzuki and Morgan Frost where not top 10 picks, and would not come close to the top 10 in a redraft. I don’t expect Foudy to be a top 10 pick either.

Frost is definitely close to a top 10 pick in a redraft. Probably anywhere from 8-12

 

[AB13]

I don't know about others in this board in my opinion these are key questions of Anton Lundell's draft position.
1 Can he score more points in liiga and U20 WJC's than Raymond and Holtz will score in SHL and U20 WJC's.
2 Is Lundell able to outplay Raymond and Holtz in the battle of honor being first drafted European prospect
3 Can Lundell carry HIFK's offence and score 40+ points and show progress in offensive production
4 Can he better what he was in 2019 U20 WJC's and U18 WJC's.
5 Can he show that the comparisons to Barkov are real

It will be interesting to follow for sure, although the Liiga and SHL are not comparable at all, the SHL is much much harder and it is a huge difference. The Allsvenskan is close to Liiga level. The SHL is ranked first in Champions Hockey leagues European League ranking by far, and the Liiga is third, but closer to the sixth placed austrian league ( EBEL) than the SHL in terms of ranking points. 15 SHL points would be more impressive than 30 Liiga points

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I don't know about others in this board in my opinion these are key questions of Anton Lundell's draft position.
1 Can he score more points in liiga and U20 WJC's than Raymond and Holtz will score in SHL and U20 WJC's.
2 Is Lundell able to outplay Raymond and Holtz in the battle of honor being first drafted European prospect
3 Can Lundell carry HIFK's offence and score 40+ points and show progress in offensive production
4 Can he better what he was in 2019 U20 WJC's and U18 WJC's.
5 Can he show that the comparisons to Barkov are real

Lundell has already won U20 gold unlike Raymond or Lafreniere.

 

[AB13]

Lundell has already won U20 gold unlike Raymond or Lafreniere.

That is not that relevant looking at how good the individual player is

 

[MattiasSnall]

It will be interesting to follow for sure, although the Liiga and SHL are not comparable at all, the SHL is much much harder and it is a huge difference. The Allsvenskan is close to Liiga level. The SHL is ranked first in Champions Hockey leagues European League ranking by far, and the Liiga is third, but closer to the sixth placed austrian league ( EBEL) than the SHL in terms of ranking points. 15 SHL points would be more impressive than 30 Liiga points

Well to be honest the difference between SHL and Liiga is not as big as you suggest, the CHL isn’t a relevant ranking because a few Finnish and Swedish teams take that seriously.

SHL is a bit better then Liiga but to compare Liiga to Hockeyallsvenskan is just stupid. Liiga exports players every year to NHL at a very good rate.

About Lundell vs Raymond I would say Raymond has more offensive upside but Lundell is better allround and a more mature player. Lundell being a C also helps him in future considerations for the NHL teams.

 

[AB13]

Well to be honest the difference between SHL and Liiga is not as big as you suggest, the CHL isn’t a relevant ranking because a few Finnish and Swedish teams take that seriously.

SHL is a bit better then Liiga but to compare Liiga to Hockeyallsvenskan is just stupid. Liiga exports players every year to NHL at a very good rate.

About Lundell vs Raymond I would say Raymond has more offensive upside but Lundell is better allround and a more mature player. Lundell being a C also helps him in future considerations for the NHL teams.

The SHL is still very far ahead of the Liiga, the SHL exports more than twice as many players on average. The Allsvenskans top teams are as good as lower SHL teams and would probably beat many Liiga teams. The Liiga is certainly much closer to the Allsvenskan than the SHL.

I mostly agree about your comparison, but I am not sure if Lundell is more well rounded. Raymond is also very well rounded and good at basically everything, besides his skill he plays with a great motor and does well defensively. I do think Raymond is the superior prospect