Player Discussion Post Draft Discussion
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I mentioned this is in the other thread, but something to consider is that our picks at 28 and 39 won’t even then 18 until July.
In fact, half of our top 40 picks in the last two years have been toward or within the younger side of their respective classes.
In turn we balanced that with 3 guys who were older Birthdays — but Chytil is approximately 10 months younger than Andersson and Lundkvist and Lindbom are 7-8 months younger than Miller and Kravtsov.
In fact, half of our top 40 picks in the last two years have been toward or within the younger side of their respective classes.
In turn we balanced that with 3 guys who were older Birthdays — but Chytil is approximately 10 months younger than Andersson and Lundkvist and Lindbom are 7-8 months younger than Miller and Kravtsov.
This poll is ridiculous. Nobody has any idea today how well we drafted this year - not you, not me, not Gorton or Clark or cigar-face himself. We won't know for at least five years.
Somebody start a thread where people assign a draft grade to the 2013 draft and we'll talk. Next year we'll grade 2014. And so on.
Somebody start a thread where people assign a draft grade to the 2013 draft and we'll talk. Next year we'll grade 2014. And so on.
broadwayblue
Registered User
You can grade it now based on your preferences. Admittedly that's not nearly as valuable as grading on performance...but as you say that's another poll 5 years from now.
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
100-point team, deep prospect pool
100-point team, good prospect pool
100-point team, deep prospect pool
77-point team, average prospect pool
The good teams can afford to take a chance on Miller. They didn't trade a top player to get that first-round pick, and they sure as shit aren't rebuilding or needed to trade a second to get him.
Good player. Good prospect. Bright Future. Big overpayment. That 2nd was extremely valuable.
I don't think there is one fan on these boards who on May 27th or even June 20th would have accepted, rationalized or even passively disagreed with the idea that 26 and 48 were to be used to trade up to 22 to take Miller. It would have caused a firestorm had someone mentioned it.
Polar Bear
Registered User
- May 15, 2018
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I don't think it's fair to call it an overpayment if Miller pans out. If he ends up developing into a very good defenseman, I don't think it will matter that we gave up a mid 2nd rounder to get our guy.
broadwayblue
Registered User
To give up a first and a second is a lot for a boom bust prospect. That's a lot of value for a lot of risk.
I gave it an A-. There are things I'm miffed about, but I understand their logic and decision making so I'm not too uptight. Loved the 1st round, even though I'm a big Wahlstrom fan, he's a shooter, while Kravs is far more skilled and faster, more dynamic.
- Kravstov- I wanted him with a 1st, but kept rising so there was no way he'd be available late. I see him as the highest skilled forward behind Svechnikov, and a guy who has the potential to be a big, fast, highly skilled CENTER. Kuznetsov was drafted and played wing for a while, and while Kravs is a winger at this stage, that speed, skill and playmaking ability would be lethal down the middle. Or he could be a scoring winger. 15-20 pounds of muscle on him and he's going to be very diffficult to stop.
- Miller- My favorite pick of the draft. I knew he was going higher than most had him here. When you get the size and skating ability that he has, you have the mold of safe NHLer. Unlike Skjei who played a lot of minutes next to Seth Jones at the USNDP, Miller was further down the line up. Once the combine happened, I heard more teams had interest in him (same with Foudy & Dellandra). Great athlete, and a lot of character. A little disappointed to hear about him going to Wisconsin from the perspective of just getting more minutes in Juniors, but Wisconsin has one of the best strength training programs in the country. Guy is going to come out as a fully developed beast in 2 years. He's already 200 lbs and I'd consider him to be skinny, so 20-25 lbs of muscle on that frame with his skating ability is going to be a beast at the NHL level. If the offense picks up.... watch out.
- Nils- Heard good things about him, and the skating ability is there. When a 17 year old eats minutes in the SHL as a defenseman, it means he's steady and reliable. Having him earn his minutes after the call-up is a sign of a smart player that can skate with the big boys. The WJC will be a very good barometer for him. If he ends up as the match-up option, that shuts guys down and transitions the puck, then you have a good showing. I will bet you he's a much better decision maker than a guy like DeAngelo. He wouldn't be playing in the SHL if he couldn't make sharp, quick decisions.
- Olof- This is the pick I was meh on just because there wasn't a trade down from there. There was a major run on goalies, and you will see that trend continue as not having a good backup automatically disqualifies you from playoff contention in a parity driven league. You will see back-ups crack $3M+ more and more and it won't be for 1A guys. They probably had him as the best goalie in the draft. The goalies that dominated the U18s have a decent track record, so there is that. But you never know how things pan in 5 years for a goalie.
- Ragnarsson- Don't know much about him other than what I've read, and chatted but I like this pick a lot. Yeah he's a late birthday but he was a top D in the J20 last year as a double under-ager (he dominated). Much like Nils was one of the better D in the J20 this year as a double-underager. Ragnar played in the Allsvenkan against men and put up good numbers. But get this, he was a PPG +31 in 23 games in the J20 last year, PPG +23 in the J18 the year before. I know stats aren't everything, but those are some very impressive numbers for d-man. Seems like he was underscouted.
- Joey Keane- RHD, got to like that. Played on a shit team last year, but this year he improved his plus/minus by +73. +/- is a very misleading stat, especially for defensemen, but that is an insane YoY improvement. Was chatting with a few of my friends in Ontario and they think next year will be a good test for him. Barrie racked up the goals this year due to some high skilled scorers in the back half of the season, so some of Keane's stats are skewed.
- Nico Gross- First "value" pick of the draft. He's had a lot of hype in Switzerland, and made the WJC as a 16 year old already. I liked what I saw in both WJC-20. No, there's not a lot of offense, but he plays a role already. Already played a full season against men prior to coming over to juniors. This is a let him cook pick, if it works, it works, if not, then let him enjoy a nice career in Europe.
- Pajamas- Know nothing about him, like that he played pro last year. If he's not on team Finland for the WJC-20 this year, then I'd start considering him to be a write-off.
- Kjellberg- Did not like the pick. Maybe they did his dad a solid since he scouts Sweden for the Rangers. It's not like there were any real standouts after that so I'm very meh on it. Could have taken Petersson, would be a funny add after the hype he got on these boards like 5 years ago, or Liam Kirk for a feel good story.
- Hughes- I love picks like this. There have been some slow to develop kids with a lot more upside slipping in recent years due to a lessened exposure. Troy Terry, Patrick Harper. Doesn't matter if they end up in the NHL from that late of a pick, but at least there are signs of an upward trajectory which is all you can ask for from a late rounder. 6'1" RHS. I was hoping for Perbix, who Anaheim took in the 4th. The latter of whom played against my friends kids in the Minny, and schooled them pretty bad.
Not giving a grade, let's say incomplete, for now.
First round was fine, if Kravtsov is legit its a score, if not, there's lots of explaining to do..... to who, I have no idea, management's has no accountability and Gordie could pick Mcilrath every year and still have his job
2nd round? Woof. Not a fan. Save yourself the disgust of researching the last 10 years of 2nd round goalies, a veritable who's who of "who?". Very few 'keepers' in that bunch While he may be a good prospect, seems like the wrong area to address at #39. Thinking at that point there were no other forwards or Dmen they liked in a draft that saw zero Centermen picked?
Ragnarsson, Keane and Gross were all good selections. Though I don't think I could have passed on the forwards that were available at #70, like Lauko, Stotts, Nordgren, Pekar and McLaughlin.
Pajuniemi and Riley Hughes are good sleeper picks. Hoping Northeastern is good for Hughes, their program has been very underrated last few years.
First round was fine, if Kravtsov is legit its a score, if not, there's lots of explaining to do..... to who, I have no idea, management's has no accountability and Gordie could pick Mcilrath every year and still have his job
2nd round? Woof. Not a fan. Save yourself the disgust of researching the last 10 years of 2nd round goalies, a veritable who's who of "who?". Very few 'keepers' in that bunch While he may be a good prospect, seems like the wrong area to address at #39. Thinking at that point there were no other forwards or Dmen they liked in a draft that saw zero Centermen picked?
Ragnarsson, Keane and Gross were all good selections. Though I don't think I could have passed on the forwards that were available at #70, like Lauko, Stotts, Nordgren, Pekar and McLaughlin.
Pajuniemi and Riley Hughes are good sleeper picks. Hoping Northeastern is good for Hughes, their program has been very underrated last few years.
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Polar Bear
Registered User
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Okay, but once again, if Miller hits then it's certainly not an over-payment. It's just another reason why immediate draft grades based off pick trades are dumb.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
You know, there’s a lot of truth to this.
I like Kravtsov, but it’s kind of my argument against strapping the rocket to him.
The majority of this board would not have picked up Kravtsov if they had their choice of picks at 9. Additionally, I remain skeptical that more than 3o percent of posters would’ve agreed to trade Chytil, Andersson or Shestyorkin straight up for Kravtsov at any point prior to and up to his selection.
And yet there he is in the conversation and more than likely to be ranked ahead of Andersson when we vote on the Rangers third prospect.
As I try to walk the fine line of painting an accurate picture of our draft, with various segments being simultaneously upset that I am not over-the-moon with my praise, nor down in the dirt wth my concerns, I do tend to get a sinking feeling that if some of these kids weren’t our pick, the general population on here wouldn’t be nearly as high on them.
While I wouldn’t accuse anyone of it, and it’s more of a hunch than fact, I think there is quite a bit of post-draft justification for the Rangers.
That’s not to say that I think the draft was bad, I gave it a B-plus. It’s just that it seems to be considerably more popular than it would’ve been if someone listed the same prospects on Friday, June 22, at 6 pm.
I mentioned Miller at 26 a few months ago. Even asked PB about him. Not a fan of giving up the 48th instead of the first 3rd rounder (I believe the 70th pick) but at this point I'm focusing on the kid and hopefully his development on honing his defensive game because all of the physical abilities are sure as hell there. Its obvious at this point if we were gonna get him we would have had to trade to 22 to get him. If he can reach his potential we will forget the #48 pick (albeit Tychonick isn't a bad pick at all by the sens).
Also not sure if you can say we have an average prospect pool. I think we are closer to 5 than we are to 15/16.
broadwayblue
Registered User
Yes...if he hits. My point is you want to trade up for sure things, not gambles. We have risked two high picks on one big gamble...making the gamble twice as risky.
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
It was average before the draft. It was putrid before the trades. I'd say it's top-10 now that the draft is over but it could have been top two or three had they drafted more skill or impact players.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I think we’re top 10 for sure. I think we’re probably a franchise player short of top 5. But I think our depth is probably pretty close to right up there.
Well we shall see if your view of Miller not being skilled enough comes to fruition. Its certainly not his fault Gorton drafted a goalie at 39.
Have no problem with that. Right now we don't have that elite player. All we have been hearing is that the Rangers should avoid going safe with 26 or 28 and two guys in that 20-30 range who are the antithesis of safe with tremendous ceilings were Bokk and Miller. Miller and Sandin would have been fine or even Bokk and Sandin.
I know you're gonna say the main board is a bunch of idiots lol but most on there are saying we have a top prospect pool right now.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I think we’re in the conversation for the top third of the league. I think the boost will come down to just how good our top 10 or so turns out.
Joey Bones
***** 2k16
I gave this class a B+. Although there is a lot to love about this draft classes upside, I don't think any of these picks are "safe" and there is a lot of risk being presented....
The 1st round was phenomenal, though!! Kravtsov has the ability and potential to take games into his own hands. Think Kuznetsov is a great comparison for him. I think Miller is raw, but could become an absolute stud physically. Has one of the highest ceilings in this class and he is going to a good program that prides themselves in developing defenders for the pro game. Lundkvist is incredibly smart and slick and is not afraid to get physical, too. I think Stralman is another accurate comparison to him, however, I think his offensive upside is better than Anton's.
Like I said before, I have no problem picking a goalie in the 2nd round. But this keeper was not one of my ideal picks and thought he could've been had at in the 5th-7th. Then again, in a small sample size, excelled in big games. It was indeed reported, as per Carp, that Benoit Allaire was "thrilled" with this pick, so we'll see in a few years.
Ragnarsson and Keane are similar players that like to skate up with the puck and control it themselves. Good value there in the 3rd round. Ragnarsson is more offensive, where Keane is more defensive minded, IMO.
I think Nico Gross is the best pick, value wise, in their whole class. I would've taken him in the late 2nd, but they were able to grab him in the 4th. Physical and fast, plays with a chip on his shoulder and has a big shot from the point. Has already played against men and supposedly might go back to the NLA for this coming season (he was on loan with Oshawa, not signed).
Pajuniemi is the one pick I know least about, but I did find some video on him. I like him more now and think that the 5th round, here, was a perfect spot to take him at. Reminds me a little of Nash, dangles in tight and has a beautiful shot. Plays hard in the corners and wants the puck on his stick. I think his skating is sluggish, though, but it does look like he has an extra gear in his play. Could be a real big steal late.
Kjellberg, IMO, isn't a good pick. Thought he should've gone undrafted. His skating isn't good and balance/edgework are not up to speed with his growing body. Don't see him sniffing the SHL in the near future. Needs serious work.
Hughes could be interesting. Was nearly GPG in high school and scored some USHL games this year. 19/20 Northeastern commit, which I love, should play in the USHL this coming season and develop. Could be a sparkplug.
So, yeah.... to reiterate I thought the 1st, 3rd and 4th rounds went well and the rest is pretty meh (however I have new understanding on Pajuniemi). Risky for sure, but fun to see how these guys all develop!!
The 1st round was phenomenal, though!! Kravtsov has the ability and potential to take games into his own hands. Think Kuznetsov is a great comparison for him. I think Miller is raw, but could become an absolute stud physically. Has one of the highest ceilings in this class and he is going to a good program that prides themselves in developing defenders for the pro game. Lundkvist is incredibly smart and slick and is not afraid to get physical, too. I think Stralman is another accurate comparison to him, however, I think his offensive upside is better than Anton's.
Like I said before, I have no problem picking a goalie in the 2nd round. But this keeper was not one of my ideal picks and thought he could've been had at in the 5th-7th. Then again, in a small sample size, excelled in big games. It was indeed reported, as per Carp, that Benoit Allaire was "thrilled" with this pick, so we'll see in a few years.
Ragnarsson and Keane are similar players that like to skate up with the puck and control it themselves. Good value there in the 3rd round. Ragnarsson is more offensive, where Keane is more defensive minded, IMO.
I think Nico Gross is the best pick, value wise, in their whole class. I would've taken him in the late 2nd, but they were able to grab him in the 4th. Physical and fast, plays with a chip on his shoulder and has a big shot from the point. Has already played against men and supposedly might go back to the NLA for this coming season (he was on loan with Oshawa, not signed).
Pajuniemi is the one pick I know least about, but I did find some video on him. I like him more now and think that the 5th round, here, was a perfect spot to take him at. Reminds me a little of Nash, dangles in tight and has a beautiful shot. Plays hard in the corners and wants the puck on his stick. I think his skating is sluggish, though, but it does look like he has an extra gear in his play. Could be a real big steal late.
Kjellberg, IMO, isn't a good pick. Thought he should've gone undrafted. His skating isn't good and balance/edgework are not up to speed with his growing body. Don't see him sniffing the SHL in the near future. Needs serious work.
Hughes could be interesting. Was nearly GPG in high school and scored some USHL games this year. 19/20 Northeastern commit, which I love, should play in the USHL this coming season and develop. Could be a sparkplug.
So, yeah.... to reiterate I thought the 1st, 3rd and 4th rounds went well and the rest is pretty meh (however I have new understanding on Pajuniemi). Risky for sure, but fun to see how these guys all develop!!
Polar Bear
Registered User
- May 15, 2018
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That doesn't mean that the trade-up as it stands was a bad trader. Could it be if Miller busts? Obviously it would be. If he hits however, this whole notion of a bad move up is instantly forgotten about. I for one rather they get their guy and surrender the pick versus keeping it and just taking someone they "like" as opposed to love.
WeRa
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2017
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I gave it a B-. I was a little disappointed after the draft but now I can understand it. I'm a big Wahlstrom fan and I believed that he is ours... IMO we need scoring wingers moore than defenders. My favourite players for 2nd and 3rd round were Jonathan Gruden, Niklas Nordgren and Benoit-Oliver Groulx.
WeRa
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2017
- 506
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I don't know if it was necessary to trade up for him. But agree with you.
Surprising improvement over the past year... and he is only 17
Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
I agree wholeheartedly with this. I like where we’re headed, and I was totally for swinging for the fences and said as much heading into this draft. But, given that the Rangers were at 9, they weren’t getting that franchise center/Dman. You yourself questioned whether either Bouchard or Dobson had first pairing upside. I would argue that both Miller and Lundkvist have upsides as high if not higher than both Bouchard and Dobson.
The Rangers IMO have dramatically increased both the quality of their prospect pool and the overall depth. But, it lacks a legitimate franchise center and franchise Dman. If they are as bad as I expect them to be, the former is likely to be remedied in next year’s draft. Ideally for the franchise, another bottom five showing in 2019-20 would give them a chance at the latter. If they were able to fill those two spots, then going forward, I would say they are on a very strong path to what management is hoping to build. You’d have at least three quality wingers in Chytil, Kravtsov and Buch, two very solid middle six centers in Andersson and Howden. And quality top 4 Dmen with Skjei, Hajek, Miller and Lundkvist. As much as I despise the taking a goalie in round two. You also have one of the deeper goalie pools in the league.
But, again, only time will tell. As much as people might not want to believe it, we are still very early in the process. There is still a lot of pain to come. Player development is not linear. Not all prospects arrive at the same time. It’s why I bristle at the idea that all of the kids making the team are going to make the Rangers better next year. Some of these kids may make the team to start the and still find themselves in Hartford during the year.
But I continue to welcome this process. It’s been a long time coming.
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