Speculation: Possible Destinations for Max Pacioretty

[MSSLYNX]

I guess I meant to say bad/dissappointing year compared to where they could be instead of a down year.

Drouin had less points than last year, while playing on the first line... not a good year.
Galchenyuk had an average year by his standards with a large - to go with it, I think he is capable of much more.
Plekanec is terrible as of the last two years, but you knew that.
Lehkonen had a bad year for most of the season assuming young players should be getting better after their first season.
Danault/Shaw being on average p/gp doesnt really help when they miss a large chunk of the season.
Byron - 8 less points is relatively significant when comparing a 43 point player and a 35 point player.

I clearly said in my post forwards, so bringing up Petry and any other D has nothing to do with what I said.

The point I was making was that only Gallagher was able to perform better than he has in the past, why should we only single out Pacioretty, who also had an injury, and not acknowledge the team sucked this year. I know that Pacioretty had a bad year, I'm not saying he didn't, but only one forward improving does say a lot about the team.

Well thats a lot of excuses in there.

Gave you Byron had down year but dont make it look like its a lot: 1 pt every 10 games.
Only one who went really downward is Max
Maybe your expectations for Drouin, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen are too high. First 2 are heavily dependant on power play to get their points, not BG. They produce 0.3 ppg without the power play.

So how come Gallagher was able to improve that much with bad linemates?

 

[HomeAndHome]

Well thats a lot of excuses in there.

Gave you Byron had down year but dont make it look like its a lot: 1 pt every 10 games.
Only one who went really downward is Max
Maybe your expectations for Drouin, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen are too high. First 2 are heavily dependant on power play to get their points, not BG. They produce 0.3 ppg without the power play.

So how come Gallagher was able to improve that much with bad linemates?

How am I making excuses? I said the team was disappointing, you said they were average based on prior years, so I gave reasons why I thought they were disappointing.

I already admitted Pacioretty had a bad year, but I think he will bounce back because he has been so consistent in the past, especially if he is traded to another team. I'm not sure what return he'll get but I never said he would get a mid-high first plus a blue-chip prospect, I think Bergevin is looking at NHL players not futures.

I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Well thats a lot of excuses in there.

Gave you Byron had down year but dont make it look like its a lot: 1 pt every 10 games.
Only one who went really downward is Max
Maybe your expectations for Drouin, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen are too high. First 2 are heavily dependant on power play to get their points, not BG. They produce 0.3 ppg without the power play.

So how come Gallagher was able to improve that much with bad linemates?

Actually Gallagher did not improve on a PPG basis. Just played his first complete 82 game season in three seasons

Brendan Gallagher Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

2015-16 injured he tallied 40 pts in 53 games almost 0.80PPG. This season he tallied 54 points in 82 games, below 0.70PPG.

 

[MSSLYNX]

How am I making excuses? I said the team was disappointing, you said they were average based on prior years, so I gave reasons why I thought they were disappointing.

I already admitted Pacioretty had a bad year, but I think he will bounce back because he has been so consistent in the past, especially if he is traded to another team. I'm not sure what return he'll get but I never said he would get a mid-high first plus a blue-chip prospect, I think Bergevin is looking at NHL players not futures.

I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make.

I asked a few times: why did Gallagher produce and Max didnt?All i read is Max had bad linemates.
My point is i am looking to understand how it is on the team when the team for most part produced like it did the year before.

To the other poster: i did not go back to 2015... just compared last 2 seasons for top guys. Mostly same disappointing output. BG went up significantly, Max went the opposite. Why?

 

[ole ole]

Blues would be more inclined to go fishing for Skinner/Hoffman if all they can add is a LW'er. Pacioretty isnt the only fish in the sea

Great because i'd rather have Patches over Skinner.

 

[Dbrownss]

Great because i'd rather have Patches over Skinner.

Kay?

 

[ole ole]

Easily? No. It's a worse package for arguably more desirable players from non rebuilding teams whose GM's haven't done their damnedest to back themselves into a corner and spoil the asset - which aren't coming off a down year.

All fun aside
1st+Barbashev+Blais+ Bouwmeester/Berglund/Sobotka (easy flips for 2nd+ ) isn't the sexy deal your looking for, but it's more than a lot of recent short term add "big fish" went for, and certainly isn't scraps. It's a lot for a team to give up. Is it better than 15th+ Macherin+ (small)? I don't know, but IMO yes. If that pick was in the 20-23 range it should be an automatic yes. But all precedent points to players like Patches getting traded for quantity and/or risk, not anything close to slamdunk core pieces. If Bergevin can do better I'll be the 1st to congratulate you guys.

So you think the package to get Patches could get Skinner/Simmonds because they are more desirable players. Ya i now see where your coming from.This has nothing to do with Patches as it has to do that he's a Hab player which affects his value to some including yourself.

 

[crowi]

Great because i'd rather have Patches over Skinner.

I definitely hope you keep captain casper for all time. Also would prefer Skinner easily.

 

[webersshot]

I’d be interested in oilers 1st and Klefbom

I’d also consider Hanifin in Carolina

 

[Canadiens1958]

I asked a few times: why did Gallagher produce and Max didnt?All i read is Max had bad linemates.
My point is i am looking to understand how it is on the team when the team for most part produced like it did the year before.

To the other poster: i did not go back to 2015... just compared last 2 seasons for top guys. Mostly same disappointing output. BG went up significantly, Max went the opposite. Why?

Gallagher stayed healthy after two injury plagued seasons. Pacioretty tried to play thru injuries before being shut down late in the 2017-18 season.

BG regardless of your juggling of the sample size did not go up significantly. He just made strides towards getting back to where he was before injuries delayed progress.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Gallagher stayed healthy after two injury plagued seasons. Pacioretty tried to play thru injuries before being shut down late in the 2017-18 season.

BG regardless of your juggling of the sample size did not go up significantly. He just made strides towards getting back to where he was before injuries delayed progress.

If i remember correctly Max was injured March 2nd against NYI. Never came back.
What other previous injuries are we talking about? That would justify the low output. Cant remember any. Nothing turned out in quick search. Something was mentioned in bergevin,s post season presser?

 

[Starat327]

I’d be interested in oilers 1st and Klefbom

I’d also consider Hanifin in Carolina

Could you clarify what you're adding to Pacioretty to get this package?

 

[Beezeral]

I’d be interested in oilers 1st and Klefbom

I’d also consider Hanifin in Carolina

For pacioretty? Did we jump in a time machine and it’s 2015?

 

[Canadiens1958]

If i remember correctly Max was injured March 2nd against NYI. Never came back.
What other previous injuries are we talking about? That would justify the low output. Cant remember any. Nothing turned out in quick search. Something was mentioned in bergevin,s post season presser?

Suggest looking at his skating during his first half slump.

Canadiens are not open about injuries,Weber, Lehtonen,Price all tried to play through injuries until they were shutdown or short termed.

Paul Byron played all 82 games. Played hurt.

Paul Byron Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Paul Byron undergoes shoulder surgery, out six months

Andrew Shaw as well was playing hurt.

Canadiens' Andrew Shaw has left knee surgery, faces six-month recovery - Sportsnet.ca

Andrew Shaw undergoes knee surgery, out six months


Watch the Gif. Knee -on knee was Shaw's right knee.Surgery was on his left knee.

 

[Starat327]

For pacioretty? Did we jump in a time machine and it’s 2015?

Where we're going, we don't need roads.

 

[Tripod]

I’d be interested in oilers 1st and Klefbom

I’d also consider Hanifin in Carolina

You are going to be disappointed if those are the returns you are expecting.

 

[Shwabeal]

I’d be interested in oilers 1st and Klefbom

I’d also consider Hanifin in Carolina

Is he coming with an extension for 5 years for right around $5 million? Cause that would be the only way either of those are even remotely close. Edmonton would be stupid to even offer the 10th OV straight up for Pacioretty right now.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Is he coming with an extension for 5 years for right around $5 million? Cause that would be the only way either of those are even remotely close. Edmonton would be stupid to even offer the 10th OV straight up for Pacioretty right now.

Last year Galchenyuk got 4.9 and Max outplayed him, Drouin got 5.5, Alzner 4.6.
If you think he will resign for 5 when he played for 4.5 mil in 2012, well good luck with that.
It will be for more dollars.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Habs posters have mentioned "extensions" to up Pacioretty's value. I'm curious which teams might be right for an extension? Taking into account both which team would be willing to offer a big enough contract so that Max would forgo UFA -AND- which teams Max would want to sign long term with. I would be a bit surprised if he signs an extension as part of a trade, but I don't know enough about him and where he'd want to go.

Without an extension, I think his "trade deadline" value is at least a mid-late 1st (from a playoff team) and a decent prospect. If MTL can't get at least that now, I would think they would just hold onto him until the deadline?

 

[Unspecified]

Unlikely? How about no way in hell!

"Dallas doesn’t have an elite level center to entice Montreal with. However, they do have an elite level left-handed defenceman in Miro Heiskanen. Heiskanen would be the perfect partner for Shea Weber moving forward, but a piece Dallas is unlikely to part with"

 

[MSSLYNX]

Habs posters have mentioned "extensions" to up Pacioretty's value. I'm curious which teams might be right for an extension? Taking into account both which team would be willing to offer a big enough contract so that Max would forgo UFA -AND- which teams Max would want to sign long term with. I would be a bit surprised if he signs an extension as part of a trade, but I don't know enough about him and where he'd want to go.

Without an extension, I think his "trade deadline" value is at least a mid-late 1st (from a playoff team) and a decent prospect. If MTL can't get at least that now, I would think they would just hold onto him until the deadline?

Mid to late first + “something” is pretty much the consensus but defining that + is a huge sticking point. Using terms like decent, good, B level, serviceable, etc. Is not helping much. Got to give a name.
With the name we get the team so we know if we are talking 11th overall or 30th. Huge difference.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I’d be interested in oilers 1st and Klefbom

I’d also consider Hanifin in Carolina

That's adorable.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Mid to late first + “something” is pretty much the consensus but defining that + is a huge sticking point. Using terms like decent, good, B level, serviceable, etc. Is not helping much. Got to give a name.
With the name we get the team so we know if we are talking 11th overall or 30th. Huge difference.

Yep, that is very correct. The deadline is easier to make deals IMO, because by then, teams know what they are (playoff team, bubble team, lottery team) and know what they need to get them over the hump.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Yep, that is very correct. The deadline is easier to make deals IMO, because by then, teams know what they are (playoff team, bubble team, lottery team) and know what they need to get them over the hump.

And year after year you get twice many deals around the deadline vs around the draft.
Not taking into account all the Vegas side deals.

 

[Shwabeal]

Last year Galchenyuk got 4.9 and Max outplayed him, Drouin got 5.5, Alzner 4.6.
If you think he will resign for 5 when he played for 4.5 mil in 2012, well good luck with that.
It will be for more dollars.

That was the point. He'd have to come with another hugely discounted contract to be worth anywhere close to those packages the poster mentioned.