Speculation: Possible Destinations for Max Pacioretty

[EastonBlues22]

If Pacioretty wants to stay in MTL, and MTL doesn't feel the need to move him, then it seems like there's not all that much to talk about. MTL will happily keep him unless someone knocks their socks off with an offer.

If both those things are true, though, it does make me wonder why there was such a **** show in MTL about trading him for months leading up to the deadline (to the point where it was public knowledge that he was actively being shopped and he fully expected to be moved).

 

[Scintillating10]

I don't think he'll disappoint with 17 goals again, but considering he'd be playing with largely the same linemates in MTL next year, I'm not sure how you can conclude that there's "little doubt" he'll revert to a 35-40 goal pace.

That said, I think both parties need to move on as soon as possible. No one needs this situation to get any more toxic than it already has.

I imagine Pacioretty will have a winger like Radulov again. Habs will select 3rd in June draft and Svechnikov and Zadina are two most likely names available.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Duc


The Ducks would offer a prospect with that pick but I dought the prospect offered would be Steel. If that’s what Montreal demands then they walk away and look else where.

The question was this.... If the Panthers offer the 15th pick and Masherin, Would the ducks up their offer? Only deal I see the Habs entertaining is the 23rd pick and Steel from the Ducks. So I guess the answer is no? So the Ducks don't get Patch. That's if the Panthers even make that offer. There has been talk about that offer from the Panthers on various threads. It's solid and fair value IMO. Of course there are Panthers and Habs fans that don't like it but there are many who do. That says something on these boards.

The other factor is a pre-negotiated contract. If I was the team trying to acquire Patch, that's what I would be trying to do. If a team friendly deal was there (5 years at $6M ish), I'd be willing to give a bit cause he brings a lot of value from age 30-35. Especially to a team that needs a proven scoring winger who plays a responsible defensive game and has a center for him to play with. This is where the Panthers have another advantage over several teams that may be interested... less state tax in Florida. $6M in Florida is $3.8M clear pay and $2.9M clear pay in the state of California. An accountant can do many things to offset taxes in each city but that $1M (+/-) is a significant amount of money to start with.

If the Panthers are indeed interested in Patch, you will have to top their offer. A 1st later their the 15th pick and a B prospect won't do it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think he'll disappoint with 17 goals again, but considering he'd be playing with largely the same linemates in MTL next year, I'm not sure how you can conclude that there's "little doubt" he'll revert to a 35-40 goal pace.

That said, I think both parties need to move on as soon as possible. No one needs this situation to get any more toxic than it already has.

From the age range of 30-35, Patch's base production is 25+ goals and 55+ points. It really depends on how you use him. He's drowning on the Habs so his stats won't look good. But as the #3 or #4 forward and playing with a real top 2 center, I won't be surprised he scores 40 goals and 70 pts in one or two of the next 6 seasons. He has never had a legit top 2 center so it's hard to predict how high he can produce on another team with better offensive talent IMO.

The other value that most people don't talk about with Patch is his all around game. He has been very good on the defensive part of his game. This is underrated by most fans but certainly not by NHL GM's and coaches. They know his true value

 

[SlavinAway]

Patches for Skinner looks good to me.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Patches for Skinner looks good to me.

Why? Habs are not interested in a lateral move. If we trade Patch, it's for futures and to accelerate the rebuild.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Pacioretty wants to stay in MTL, and MTL doesn't feel the need to move him, then it seems like there's not all that much to talk about. MTL will happily keep him unless someone knocks their socks off with an offer.

If both those things are true, though, it does make me wonder why there was such a **** show in MTL about trading him for months leading up to the deadline (to the point where it was public knowledge that he was actively being shopped and he fully expected to be moved).

If the Habs were heading in a positive direction, Patch would be re-signed. However, the Habs are struggling and we need to focus on a rebuild or min-rebuild on the fly. That's why Patch is likely to be traded as he has one year left. However, if the trade offer is not solid, He will stay and might be traded at the deadline. Hard to predict what the Habs will do this off season and on the ice next year. Most think and want another tank year.

There is a very high probability he is getting traded and it has a lot to do with the Habs direction.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The question was this.... If the Panthers offer the 15th pick and Masherin, Would the ducks up their offer? Only deal I see the Habs entertaining is the 23rd pick and Steel from the Ducks. So I guess the answer is no? So the Ducks don't get Patch. That's if the Panthers even make that offer. There has been talk about that offer from the Panthers on various threads. It's solid and fair value IMO. Of course there are Panthers and Habs fans that don't like it but there are many who do. That says something on these boards.

The other factor is a pre-negotiated contract. If I was the team trying to acquire Patch, that's what I would be trying to do. If a team friendly deal was there (5 years at $6M ish), I'd be willing to give a bit cause he brings a lot of value from age 30-35. Especially to a team that needs a proven scoring winger who plays a responsible defensive game and has a center for him to play with. This is where the Panthers have another advantage over several teams that may be interested... less state tax in Florida. $6M in Florida is $3.8M clear pay and $2.9M clear pay in the state of California. An accountant can do many things to offset taxes in each city but that $1M (+/-) is a significant amount of money to start with.

If the Panthers are indeed interested in Patch, you will have to top their offer. A 1st later their the 15th pick and a B prospect won't do it.

You can't pre-negotiate a contract and trade Patches before the draft for a 2018 draft pick.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You can't pre-negotiate a contract and trade Patches before the draft for a 2018 draft pick.

Yes you can. Habs can allow any team to talk with Patch and come up with a pre-negotiated contract (hand shake kind of deal). Nothing becomes official until July 1st though. ROR trade to the Sabres is a good example. Trade happened on Jun 26th and he was extended (officially) July 3rd. That is a very short window to negotiate a contract for a player who has 1 year left from the previous contract. What do you believe in this case?

You will never get this on record from the player or team though. Deals like this only happen when all parties involved are on the same page.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yes you can. Habs can allow any team to talk with Patch and come up with a pre-negotiated contract (hand shake kind of deal). Nothing becomes official until July 1st though. ROR trade to the Sabres is a good example. Trade happened on Jun 26th and he was extended (officially) July 3rd.

You will never get this on record from the player or team though. Deals like this only happen when all parties involved are on the same page.

We'll see. I'll bet you right now that Pacioretty won't sign a deal on in the first week of July. (with a different team).

EDIT: But I don't know him so anything is possible, I'll just be very surprised. ROR and Patches are at much different points in their careers.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We'll see. I'll bet you right now that Pacioretty won't sign a deal on in the first week of July.

EDIT: But I don't know him so anything is possible.

I agree. Anything is possible. I just presented another factor where the Panthers have an advantage.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I agree. Anything is possible. I just presented another factor where the Panthers have an advantage.

I guess I don't see it as an advantage. You are assuming he wants to re-sign in Florida AND will sign a "team friendly" deal. I just don't think that is likely. Usually, when guys sign extensions with a new team to forgo UFA, they don't sign a "team friendly" deal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I guess I don't see it as an advantage. You are assuming he wants to re-sign in Florida AND will sign a "team friendly" deal. I just don't think that is likely. Usually, when guys sign extensions with a new team to forgo UFA, they don't sign a "team friendly" deal.

I'm not assuming anything specific happens. I presenting you various factors that may or may not be in play. Where did you get the assumption that I think Patch 100% wants to play in Florida? You drew that conclusion.

If you want to talk about weather I think Patch wants to play in Florida or not? Well lets do it. I have no real proof and it's all speculation but Patch spends a lot of time in Florida in the off season. I have also read that the license plate on his car is from the state of Florida. Maybe the Florida GM already knew this when he was trying to acquire him last trade deadline?

My wildest guess is I think Patch would be interested in signing an extension with the Panthers. Patch and the Panthers seem like a good fit and I'm not the only one who thinks so.

 

[DrJustice]

There's a difference between trying to be funny or just being a ****.

Long history of respect and admiration between our two fan-bases, I'm sorry I let you down.

 

[HomeAndHome]

The problems with Max are obvious.
1. His offensive production was down the last couple of years and he isn't getting younger.
2. Despite his decline in production he's going to ask for a raise
3. If he isn't scoring than his game is a negative. You expect more defense and physical play from a guy that size

If I'm a GM I'd be more interested in Brendan Gallagher or Alex G.
I still think some team will offer Bergevin a Rick Nash like return.

I guess his problems aren't that obvious...

His offensive production was down one year, not the last couple, on a year where the team was a complete mess and he had an injury. He's generally very consistent.
He is 29, not 35, his age isn't as massive of problem as some would have you believe.
All decent UFAs ask for a raise, that's just how it works, you pay more for UFA years and he has earned more than his $4.5 m current deal.
Pacioretty is used quite often on the PK and is actually pretty good at it. It's true that he isn't very physical for his size but his play in the defensive end isn't hindering his game at this point.

If you wanted to point out the flaws in his game you could have went with inconsistent compete level in the playoffs, or that he isn't a good possession player (which isn't that big of a deal if he has the right line mates).

We don't really know at this point what Bergevin is targeting in a Pacioretty trade, my money would be on NHL player (s) and not futures (which he should be, but he probably doesn't want to rebuild).

 

[Beezeral]

on a year where the team was a complete mess and he had an injury.

the Habs forward group has been a mess his entire career. This year was the first in a while where his play was bad. Anyone acquiring him as to ask themselves the question if that was the first sign of regression or if it was just one bad year.

Also, do you not think that injury impacts his value as well. Yeah, he didn't have surgery, but its still an injury. Sorry to cross over sports but the Dolphins QB Ryan Tannehill missed the end of 2016 season with a knee injury. He didn't have surgery. He tore the ACL in that knee 2 weeks into training camp the following season. Injuries are injuries and a team acquiring Patches has to take that knee injury into account.

He is 29, not 35, his age isn't as massive of problem as some would have you believe.

He will be 30 in november. He will be 30 years old for almost the entirety of next season.

All decent UFAs ask for a raise, that's just how it works, you pay more for UFA years

So the team acquiring him has to extend him for 5-6 years at likely 6-7 million AAV from ages 31-36-37. That's got to have teams all warm and fuzzy inside.

There are a lot of positives to Pacioretty. There are also a bunch of negatives. Those have to be taken into account.

 

[HomeAndHome]

the Habs forward group has been a mess his entire career. This year was the first in a while where his play was bad. Anyone acquiring him as to ask themselves the question if that was the first sign of regression or if it was just one bad year.

Also, do you not think that injury impacts his value as well. Yeah, he didn't have surgery, but its still an injury. Sorry to cross over sports but the Dolphins QB Ryan Tannehill missed the end of 2016 season with a knee injury. He didn't have surgery. He tore the ACL in that knee 2 weeks into training camp the following season. Injuries are injuries and a team acquiring Patches has to take that knee injury into account.

He will be 30 in november. He will be 30 years old for almost the entirety of next season.

So the team acquiring him has to extend him for 5-6 years at likely 6-7 million AAV from ages 31-36-37. That's got to have teams all warm and fuzzy inside.

There are a lot of positives to Pacioretty. There are also a bunch of negatives. Those have to be taken into account.

It's not uncommon for a player to have one bad year. Pacioretty wasn't the only Montreal forward to have a down year, only one person escaped that, which could mean the problem is more than just a down year for Pacioretty (how the roster is built/coaching/locker room/chemestry/etc).

As you said, this is his first year where his play was bad, why are you convinced he can't return to form? You think teams will gamble that he won't return to form, but won't gamble that he will? That's pretty narrow thinking.

Of course his injury impacts his value, but one off year doesn't completely ruin a players value. I don't follow football at all so I can't comment on their injuries and what happens after, it''s a much different sport.

Yes he will be 30, he is currently 29, I have no arguments there. IMO from ages 31-35 he is worth $6-6.5m AAV if he is able to put up 50-60 points and around 25-30 goals, which he is very capable of.

Both positives and negatives having to be taken into account is very true, but I've seen you post a lot about Patioretty and haven't seen you say much of the former. I do acknowledge that he could be in decline, but why not also acknowledge that he could just have a bad year.

 

[Beezeral]

It's not uncommon for a player to have one bad year. Pacioretty wasn't the only Montreal forward to have a down year, only one person escaped that, which could mean the problem is more than just a down year for Pacioretty (how the roster is built/coaching/locker room/chemestry/etc).

As you said, this is his first year where his play was bad, why are you convinced he can't return to form? You think teams will gamble that he won't return to form, but won't gamble that he will? That's pretty narrow thinking.

Of course his injury impacts his value, but one off year doesn't completely ruin a players value. I don't follow football at all so I can't comment on their injuries and what happens after, it''s a much different sport.

Yes he will be 30, he is currently 29, I have no arguments there. IMO from ages 31-35 he is worth $6-6.5m AAV if he is able to put up 50-60 points and around 25-30 goals, which he is very capable of.

Both positives and negatives having to be taken into account is very true, but I've seen you post a lot about Patioretty and haven't seen you say much of the former. I do acknowledge that he could be in decline, but why not also acknowledge that he could just have a bad year.

I do acknowledge that. I never said he won't return to form but at the same time it is silly to assume its a sure thing that he will. Most Habs fans ITT and others are asking suitors to pay like Patches is coming off a 30+ goal season and nothing is wrong. He's not. He's got some real warts on him and those warts make the return of a top prospect unrealistic.

 

[HomeAndHome]

I do acknowledge that. I never said he won't return to form but at the same time it is silly to assume its a sure thing that he will. Most Habs fans ITT and others are asking suitors to pay like Patches is coming off a 30+ goal season and nothing is wrong. He's not. He's got some real warts on him and those warts make the return of a top prospect unrealistic.

I was originally responding to a single poster who thought he had Pacioretty figured out, but it's clear he doesn't watch him. I'm not assuming he is for sure returning to form, but I see a lot of people pretty much ruling it out, which is wrong until it actually happens/doesn't happen next year. Until then, saying he will return to form can be criticized as much as saying he is a 17 goal scorer going forward, he's been very consistent in the past so I'd assume that would carry a lot of weight.

Yes a lot of people are over/undervaluing him, that's no surprise because that's how it works on HF. Sure he has his warts, all players do, I just hope MB doesn't trade him in some ridiculous deal for a lot less than he is worth.

 

[MSSLYNX]

It's not uncommon for a player to have one bad year. Pacioretty wasn't the only Montreal forward to have a down year, only one person escaped that, which could mean the problem is more than just a down year for Pacioretty (how the roster is built/coaching/locker room/chemestry/etc).

Not true. Galchenyuk, Drouin, Plekanec, Lehkonen all had normal productive year compared to year before. Petry got his best stats with Weber out. Danault and Shaw got same prorated total. Byron only 8 less points.
Max minus 20 pts proprated is more than an overall team thing.

Gave you 8 other names. Hudon rookie + 5 def dmen get you to 15 players who produced the same.
Never mind the 4th liners.
Thats the whole team.

 

[Newsworthy]

I guess his problems aren't that obvious...

His offensive production was down one year, not the last couple, on a year where the team was a complete mess and he had an injury. He's generally very consistent.
He is 29, not 35, his age isn't as massive of problem as some would have you believe.
All decent UFAs ask for a raise, that's just how it works, you pay more for UFA years and he has earned more than his $4.5 m current deal.
Pacioretty is used quite often on the PK and is actually pretty good at it. It's true that he isn't very physical for his size but his play in the defensive end isn't hindering his game at this point.

If you wanted to point out the flaws in his game you could have went with inconsistent compete level in the playoffs, or that he isn't a good possession player (which isn't that big of a deal if he has the right line mates).

We don't really know at this point what Bergevin is targeting in a Pacioretty trade, my money would be on NHL player (s) and not futures (which he should be, but he probably doesn't want to rebuild).

I wasn't trying to critique him as a player. I was looking at the situation from a GM perspective. If I was an opposing GM I rather chase after Gallagher as I feel his game is better suited for playoff hockey. He's also younger and cheaper and the asking price could be similar. My guess is he's not for sale. For Max he would be a good fit for a veteran team but those teams normally don't have the cap space to resign him.

 

[HomeAndHome]

Not true. Galchenyuk, Drouin, Plekanec, Lehkonen all had normal productive year compared to year before. Petry got his best stats with Weber out. Danault and Shaw got same prorated total. Byron only 8 less points.
Max minus 20 pts proprated is more than an overall team thing.

Gave you 8 other names. Hudon rookie + 5 def dmen get you to 15 players who produced the same.
Never mind the 4th liners.
Thats the whole team.

I guess I meant to say bad/dissappointing year compared to where they could be instead of a down year.

Drouin had less points than last year, while playing on the first line... not a good year.
Galchenyuk had an average year by his standards with a large - to go with it, I think he is capable of much more.
Plekanec is terrible as of the last two years, but you knew that.
Lehkonen had a bad year for most of the season assuming young players should be getting better after their first season.
Danault/Shaw being on average p/gp doesnt really help when they miss a large chunk of the season.
Byron - 8 less points is relatively significant when comparing a 43 point player and a 35 point player.

I clearly said in my post forwards, so bringing up Petry and any other D has nothing to do with what I said.

The point I was making was that only Gallagher was able to perform better than he has in the past, why should we only single out Pacioretty, who also had an injury, and not acknowledge the team sucked this year. I know that Pacioretty had a bad year, I'm not saying he didn't, but only one forward improving does say a lot about the team.

 

[HomeAndHome]

I wasn't trying to critique him as a player. I was looking at the situation from a GM perspective. If I was an opposing GM I rather chase after Gallagher as I feel his game is better suited for playoff hockey. He's also younger and cheaper and the asking price could be similar. My guess is he's not for sale. For Max he would be a good fit for a veteran team but those teams normally don't have the cap space to resign him.

That's fair, I may have started off a little harsh, my bad. Reading the main boards you'd think that Pacioretty would be better off retiring than being traded. (Hyperbole, I know )

I agree most GMs would rather Gallagher, but I'd hope he isn't available, while Pacioretty would be available due to age/contract status. I think Pacioretty would excel on another team and hope he does if he is traded, but yeah the problem is re-signing him at a decent amount.

 

[Kraken Jokes]

Whoever has the best QC native available I'm sure.

There are 4 Quebec players on the roster, but sure, keep up that narrative.

 

[belair]

If Pacioretty wants to stay in MTL, and MTL doesn't feel the need to move him, then it seems like there's not all that much to talk about. MTL will happily keep him unless someone knocks their socks off with an offer.

If both those things are true, though, it does make me wonder why there was such a **** show in MTL about trading him for months leading up to the deadline (to the point where it was public knowledge that he was actively being shopped and he fully expected to be moved).

Why would Montreal commit all of that money to a position they already have thoroughly covered with a significant amount of cap already dedicated there? I mean, you're poised to draft yet another LW at #3 this summer. Max signing another deal in Montreal is among the least likely things that could occur ask things considered. And as a fan would that fill you with optimism should it occur?