Poll: How is everyone feeling about Derek Lalonde?

What are you current feelings on Derek Lalonde as the Red Wings coach?

  • He's doing fine, I'm happy with his performance to date

    Votes: 32 18.8%
  • Not thrilled with his performance, but think he can eventually get the job done

    Votes: 39 22.9%
  • I'm starting to become skeptical that he can get the job done

    Votes: 55 32.4%
  • I'm not impressed at all

    Votes: 44 25.9%

  • Total voters
    170

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
14,123
1,219
Norway
NHL coaches aren't infallible, but these threads always make me wish I could hand a whiteboard to the loudest critics and see what they'd draw up before a game instead.

Surely if you're capable of saying things are objectively wrong, you're also capable of not making an ass of yourself in front of everyone, right?

I have my doubts, given the biggest complaints are usually just around lineups. Oh and making sure the guys play strong all the time! Set the "correct" lineups, give a rousing speech 82 times a year, and boom instantly better.

And before "but what do we talk about if not..." Yeah, this is a good topic to discuss, I'm just saying the depth of analysis showed here is so surface level and superficial it's hard to ween much from it other than "I wish we'd win more and play the guys I like to watch."

I see little to nothing about systems and the difference between an inherent failure in what is being coached versus what is an individual player's responsibility. If you can clearly demonstrate what Lalonde fails to do in this aspect versus your average NHL coach, then you'll have infinitely more cache to your criticism.
Playing Seider with Chiarot
Playing Larkin with Perron and Raymond instead of with Kane and DeBrincat
Not sitting Fabbri for Sprong
Starting Lyon in 2 games when Reimer was hot/lucky hand
Going back to Reimer now vs canes when his only hope is Lyon going back to January mode stealing games. We are out. Our only hope is Lyon going crazy and stealing a few games.
Reimer has not stolen a single game for us, nevertheless he is 6-1 in his last 7 and despite a semi soft goal every game.
Perron takes 2 bad penalties in 2 consecutive games, Rasmussen does the same in the next 2. This is while we are fighting for our lives.
Yzerman wanted the team to play better defensively. They don't do it.
 
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Perfect Human

Registered User
Dec 17, 2014
1,540
1,027
Seen some improvement but thought he would get more out of this team. Starting to sour but has been ok this far
 

heyfolks

Registered User
Apr 30, 2007
1,813
566
Calling out ANY player like this in public tells me he is losing the room. It is a rare thing.

Don't get me wrong, his comment is an accurate depiction of the play. Yet to do this in public is to say the message isn't getting through to the room or player in the room. This sort of thing sticks with all players, not just Copp. the big UNLESS is only if Copp is bad in the room. While I think he was an absolutely horrible signing, Abby 2.0, I don't get the impressions he is a locker room cancer.

Back to the point, this is why I am now skeptical on Derek. His commentary in the post season ast year, and now this public dressing down of a player.





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1711664566512.gif
 

Axel Sandy Pelikan

Jonatan Berggren is our Lord and Savior,
May 11, 2023
983
992
Playing Seider with Chiarot
Playing Larkin with Perron and Raymond instead of with Kane and DeBrincat
Not sitting Fabbri for Sprong
Starting Lyon in 2 games when Reimer was hot/lucky hand
Going back to Reimer now vs canes when his only hope is Lyon going back to January mode stealing games. We are out. Our only hope is Lyon going crazy and stealing a few games.
Reimer has not stolen a single game for us, nevertheless he is 6-1 in his last 7 and despite a semi soft goal every game.
Perron takes 2 bad penalties in 2 consecutive games, Rasmussen does the same in the next 2. This is while we are fighting for our lives.
Yzerman wanted the team to play better defensively. They don't do it.

So for half of these... just you know, do the opposite of what he did. Regardless of the fact that we lost a 1-0 game against the hottest team in hockey and were a hideous pass from Debrincat from winning a couple nights ago.

This is what Bench is pointing at. Whatever the coach did when we lost... well, that was stupid, he should have done the other thing. Not starting Reimer when he was "hot" and now "oh, Lyon should be playing because Reimer's no good!"

Calling out ANY player like this in public tells me he is losing the room. It is a rare thing.

Don't get me wrong, his comment is an accurate depiction of the play. Yet to do this in public is to say the message isn't getting through to the room or player in the room. This sort of thing sticks with all players, not just Copp. the big UNLESS is only if Copp is bad in the room. While I think he was an absolutely horrible signing, Abby 2.0, I don't get the impressions he is a locker room cancer.

Back to the point, this is why I am now skeptical on Derek. His commentary in the post season ast year, and now this public dressing down of a player.





View attachment 842711



View attachment 842715

I also don't agree at all on this. Copp made a really stupid play that led to a goal that the Wings couldn't afford to give up.
 

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
14,123
1,219
Norway
Calling out ANY player like this in public tells me he is losing the room. It is a rare thing.

Don't get me wrong, his comment is an accurate depiction of the play. Yet to do this in public is to say the message isn't getting through to the room or player in the room. This sort of thing sticks with all players, not just Copp. the big UNLESS is only if Copp is bad in the room. While I think he was an absolutely horrible signing, Abby 2.0, I don't get the impressions he is a locker room cancer.

Back to the point, this is why I am now skeptical on Derek. His commentary in the post season ast year, and now this public dressing down of a player.





View attachment 842711



View attachment 842715
I find it very stupid. Copp is underachieving big time, but Yzerman can't do anything about it now. It is very bad because DeBrincat caused 2 turnovers but he chooses to single out Copp. That is beyond stupid.
 
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14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
14,123
1,219
Norway
So for half of these... just you know, do the opposite of what he did. Regardless of the fact that we lost a 1-0 game against the hottest team in hockey and were a hideous pass from Debrincat from winning a couple nights ago.

This is what Bench is pointing at. Whatever the coach did when we lost... well, that was stupid, he should have done the other thing. Not starting Reimer when he was "hot" and now "oh, Lyon should be playing because Reimer's no good!"



I also don't agree at all on this. Copp made a really stupid play that led to a goal that the Wings couldn't afford to give up.
You completely missed my point.
My critics were not hindsight. I have pointed out these things before the games.
DeBrincat has played those bad passes for about 10 games.
When Kane tries to hit DeBrincat, he manages it 9 out of 10. When DeBrincat tries to pass to Kane he manages it 1 out of 10. DeBrincat has been a turnover machine last 10 games, easily the worst player on the team.
Lalonde should stick to Lyon now as Lyon stole several games in January. Reimer is not capable of stealing games.
 

Axel Sandy Pelikan

Jonatan Berggren is our Lord and Savior,
May 11, 2023
983
992
I find it very stupid. Copp is underachieving big time, but Yzerman can't do anything about it now. It is very bad because DeBrincat caused 2 turnovers but he chooses to single out Copp. That is beyond stupid.
'
Debrincat made a bad pass to end the game. Andrew Copp straight up ignored his defensive responsibility and the player he was meant to be watching/covering scored. It's not the same thing.
The criticism is simple because the information the fans have access to is simple. If Lalonde was coaching the team from his couch and from the stands, he would have similarly few adjustments to offer. Saying "well what would you do?!?!?" is asinine because it's impossible to know what you would change without being on the ground with these guys and seeing how they're playing and interacting with one another.

The Wings have marginally improved from this time last year, with a significantly better roster. Further, the same issues of not starting on time and going on long losing streaks have persisted all season. That's not really acceptable. We don't need to have solutions in order to be able to say that.

It's like if a surgeon has consistently bad outcomes, and the response is "well could you do better?". No, a random person probably couldn't, because they aren't paid to be a doctor, and they don't know the intimate details of what happened. That doesn't absolve the physician of criticism...

My other problem with it is also that the criticisms being leveled here are Skip Bayless criticizing LeBron for not having a killer instinct against the Mavs while Mark Cuban is at the desk with him and Skip's saying his "LeBron didn't care enough" and Mark points out that the Mavs know LeBron is incredible so they switched up their coverage to zone so that the correct play when you're LeBron is to kick the pass out to a wide-open teammate and if his teammate knocks down the open shot, you accept the loss.

What, in particular, are you seeing in how the Wings start out that they're failing at? Is it that they're not scoring early or they're not putting on pressure and shots early? Are they dumping and chasing too much? Are they getting hemmed in the zone or giving up odd man rushes because you have Ghost out there thinking he's Alexei Kovalev spinning around as the last man back?

With Seider and Chiarot playing together... I agree that it's not optimal, but what is that pairing doing wrong that a Seider-Maatta pairing wouldn't? Or Seider-Petry?

This was a bubble team, by talent, at the start of the year. This is precisely where people thought we would be. How is that an indictment on Lalonde? I mean, shit, without Larkin going down for a couple weeks right at a key moment, the Wings were cruising to a playoff spot.
 
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saska sault

Registered User
Jun 5, 2010
3,831
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Sault Ste. Marie
Agree with others, he's been an improvement over Blashill but so has the roster. The peaks and valleys of the seats have brought the whole spectrum of thoughts on Lalonde, but it has done the same for the rest of the team and staff. Think until we get some of the kids up, and really get a #2 C and a little more talent it will be hard to tell. Think even this year we are give or take some streaks, at or near the ceiling for this team for regular season performance.
 

OldnotDeadWings

Registered User
Sep 18, 2013
295
286
Use of timeouts is a legit criticism. It's irritating when they're not used in obvious situations. However, on a list of things most important to good coaching, it is near the bottom.

Most important thing? Have the players bought n to what you're selling. Do they play with a consistently good work ethic and effort. Are there any signs that important players struggle with the role they are asked to play. I think Lalonde actually rates pretty highly by those standards. The comeback record for the team is an obvious tip-off for their high level of self-belief, commitment and trust in the system they are asked to play.

There are other obvious facts, rather than subjective evaluation of line combos or how well the Wings start games, that support Lalonde. The Wings were 13 games over .500 three-quarters through the season, despite a significant turnover of players to start the season. Their special teams were in or close to the top 10. Preseason concerns about secondary scoring were eliminated. They had a good goal differential.

What did he do differently during the losing streak that turned things around? Almost nothing. The losing streak was almost entirely caused by Larkin being out and Lyon falling apart, neither of which Lalonde had any control over. In the last six games, with Larkin back for most of them and the team getting some good goaltending, they're 3-2-1. Six or seven points from their next six games, which includes a probably must-win-in-regulation home game vs. Washington, will probably keep them alive heading into the final four.

There are some Lalonde peculiarities, aside from the time-out issue. He, like Yzerman, place a huge value on depth. No other WC contending team in the East, and very few if any good teams, have such little variance in ES TOI between the most-used and least-used regular players, or such little difference between their most and least productive regular players. This is good or bad, depending on how you look at it, but IMO it has contributed to the players' sense of ownership and self-belief that it's not just up to the star players (of which the Wings have precious few anyway) to bail the team out.

I doubt very much that Lalonde is in any danger of being fired, unless the team collectively throws in the towel the rest of the way as easily as some of the fans have. It's a mishmash team of a few keepers and a lot of place-holders and nearly-dones. They're brutal in their own end, which is mostly the result of too many of the few skill players being fairly useless in board battles and tight spaces, and too many of the heavier non-skill players being fairly useless with the puck. The result is that forechecking teams eat them up. Whether by design or player inability, they too often just give away board possession and load up the middle of the ice, hoping a blocked shot or pass somehow trickles outside the blue line. This is not a coaching issue, it's primarily a quality of player issue.

Apart from the players just throwing in the towel, which doesn't seem likely, I don't see any distance between Yzermans's beliefs and expectations and Lalonde's execution of those beliefs and expectations. There is nothing similar about Lalonde's situation now, and the circumstances that led to SY firing Guy Boucher in his third season in TB. The team is improving and has met the publicly stated, and admittedly low, preseason goals of both the GM and the coach to be more competitive and playing meaningful games in late March. The lack of rookie impact is by SY's design and with Lalonde's apparent support. I expect he'll still be coaching the team when six or seven of SY's draft picks are finally on it.
 
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LongTimeDRWF

Registered User
Feb 10, 2024
202
118
NS
I am in the plus side of middle crowd. This is still a bubble rebuilding / post rebuilding team, so I am willing to lend some support. I do think he needs a mentor, this is his first NHL Head Coach gig, someone to lend a real time hand for behind the bench calls, he needs to know when to burn his time outs instead of saving them for a bigger dumpster fire, an once of prevention.
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
21,252
15,047
Since the Wings are doing their annual limp towards the finish line of the regular season, I wanted to get a sense of how everyone feels about Lalonde. I have very mixed feelings: the roster will look quite different in 2-3 years and that may be the best time to judge his performance, but I feel like we have enough talent right now to make the playoffs. So I think it's safe to say I'm starting to sour on him a bit. What are your feelings on him as the Red Wings coach?

As far as what "get the job done" means, it's making the Red Wings a consistent playoff team who have a shot at a long playoff run.
Send this man into the sun.

Someone needs to tell him timeouts aren’t like vacation days, you can’t carry them into the next year
 
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ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
15,041
7,250
i'm not crazy about Lalonde but I do think it's a little unfair to blame him for how bad the Wings have been in this current stretch without also giving him credit for good performance in other stretches this year

so I guess he gets a resounding "meh" out of me
 

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
15,919
10,465
Honestly he has a much better roster than Blashill ever had, and we aren't that much better in the standings. He also doesn't seem to be great for Seider as Seider played a much different and better style before Lalonde came. He also sticks with things that don't work for far longer than seems sane or reasonable.
 

aar000n

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
9,937
784
Playing Seider with Chiarot
Playing Larkin with Perron and Raymond instead of with Kane and DeBrincat
Not sitting Fabbri for Sprong
Starting Lyon in 2 games when Reimer was hot/lucky hand
Going back to Reimer now vs canes when his only hope is Lyon going back to January mode stealing games. We are out. Our only hope is Lyon going crazy and stealing a few games.
Reimer has not stolen a single game for us, nevertheless he is 6-1 in his last 7 and despite a semi soft goal every game.
Perron takes 2 bad penalties in 2 consecutive games, Rasmussen does the same in the next 2. This is while we are fighting for our lives.
Yzerman wanted the team to play better defensively. They don't do it.
This also add the dump and chase strategy that the team is not built for.
 
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PavelDatsyuk13DET

Registered User
Jun 21, 2019
28
22
Lalonde has been an ok coach so far but if we don't make the playoffs next year, he should be fired. Imagine if we didn't get a PPG Patrick Kane in the middle of the season. We would probably be where Ottawa is.
 
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