Poll: Does Babcock keep Larkin on Leafs?

[The Zermanator]

They were being sarcastic.

Joke



My head

 

[Pavels Dog]

Anyone who claims to know what would happen in these hypothetical situations is full of it.

Toronto's situation is so different from ours. And Nylander's development path is also different from Larkin's. Nylander would probably be in the AHL if he was a Red Wing, but not because he's a worse prospect. Simply because they want him developed at C, and we have no room there.

It's a pointless discussion since it says nothing about the quality of prospect.

 

[obey86]

Leafs. North American, high effort, two way, forechecks well, stays out of penalty trouble. He's pretty much Babcock's dream.

I think it's become clear in the last few years that Holland is the one holding young players back, not Babcock. It's happening in Toronto now because their plan is to imitate Holland as closely as they can.

Wait, what? It seems you are drawing the opposite of the logical conclusion based on that limited information.

*Babcock here, Holland here, good prospect stays down in AHL
*Babcock gone, Holland here, good prospect plays in NHL
*Babcock in Toronto, Toronto prospect stays down in AHL

Now, based on that information....how can one draw the conclusion that Holland is/was the one holding players back?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

A better question is would Larkin still be on this team if Babs was coach.

Id say yes (only cause Datsyuk is injured) but he sure as heck wouldnt be on the 1st line with Zetterberg.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Pretty sure he started on 3rd line. Tatar started on 3rd line (after press box, mind you). Sheahan started on 3rd line. So forth, etc. I think you get the point.

Outside of major, major injuries all the young forwards I can remember did.

Did you ever consider that Larkin is a much better player than any of those guys and that might be a factor?

 

[Actual Thought*]

Wait, what? It seems you are drawing the opposite of the logical conclusion based on that limited information.

*Babcock here, Holland here, good prospect stays down in AHL
*Babcock gone, Holland here, good prospect plays in NHL
*Babcock in Toronto, Toronto prospect stays down in AHL

Now, based on that information....how can one draw the conclusion that Holland is/was the one holding players back?

Babcock gone, Holland here, best prospect in 20 years in NHL.

 

[Frk It]

Did you ever consider that Larkin is a much better player than any of those guys and that might be a factor?

Obviously. But dont think it would've mattered.

But doesn't matter what any of us think, we'll never know.

 

[odin1981]

Babcock gone, Holland here, best prospect in 20 years in NHL.

You would say he is better than Z, or Dats, maybe even Fischer when they where young? I don't really know where he fits in the past 20 years but I think it is safe to say he is a top 5 but to flat out say he is the best is kinda a hard act to follow.

 

[Dotter]

I think Babcock would get boo'd out of Toronto if a player of Larkin's ilk didn't make the big club just because he's 19. Toronto doesn't have a player as good as Larkin is right now.

 

[Actual Thought*]

You would say he is better than Z, or Dats, maybe even Fischer when they where young? I don't really know where he fits in the past 20 years but I think it is safe to say he is a top 5 but to flat out say he is the best is kinda a hard act to follow.

I think it is safe to say he is a more promising prospect than Tatar, Nyquist, or Sheehan. These players didn't make the roster at 19 because they weren't as good as Larkin is not because Babcock hates young players.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think it is safe to say he is a more promising prospect than Tatar, Nyquist, or Sheehan. These players didn't make the roster at 19 because they weren't as good as Larkin is not because Babcock hates young players.

I think it has more to do with Babcock failing the test of okay Mike, how do you want to use him?

Well I would like to play him in slowly for 10 minutes down the lineup, not sure I can trust him...

Blashill's response was, I want to throw him on the first line and play him 15 minutes a game, I think he makes us better.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think Babcock would get boo'd out of Toronto if a player of Larkin's ilk didn't make the big club just because he's 19. Toronto doesn't have a player as good as Larkin is right now.

Their fans think Nylander is better than Larkin.... Now he isn't, but just as a reference they absolutely believe he is. They think Babcock is a Golden God though, so we will see when the heat actually ratchets up, think he has a couple years before they start asking him really hard questions.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/10/dylan_larkin_earns_spot_on_red.html

Direct quote from the Wings head coach:



Blashill 'specifically felt he makes the team better'...'was important he started on team, to an exponential amount', etc. He acknowledges that the easier choice (roster-wise obviously) would be to send him to GR. But their hands were forced.

I'm getting a strange feeling that some around here are underrating Larkin relative to how the Wings brass see him.






Well, no one around here is actually in any way involved in the running of these franchises. So everything is speculative anyway.




Couldn't disagree more with this. This 'Babcock hates the kids' narrative has grown too big. Yes, Babcock holds kids to a high standard. But he wanted Ouellet up full-time last season, he wasn't an obstacle for Tatar and Nyquist. He benched his golden boy Cleary and rode the kids in large part to the playoffs the last two seasons. Holland's hoarding of third line type depth, plus our plethora of NHL ready prospects, is what's keeping kids down. And Larkin is our best prospect, by far.

Babcock would have wanted Larkin up whether he was still with the Wings, or in TO.

Babcock deliberately played veterens over kids as often as he could until they forced his hand. Remember when Tatar was frequently a healthy scratch for no reason? As soon as all the injuries hit, they took over. Babcock really doesn't like playing young guys unless they prove themselves.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I think Babcock would get boo'd out of Toronto if a player of Larkin's ilk didn't make the big club just because he's 19. Toronto doesn't have a player as good as Larkin is right now.

No, even so they wouldn't. They're trying to mirror Detroit's image by letting a prospect tear up the ahl before they get called up.

If they had a 100 point player the fans probably wouldnt complain because toronto is trying to be detroit.

 

[19 for president]

I think it has more to do with Babcock failing the test of okay Mike, how do you want to use him?

Well I would like to play him in slowly for 10 minutes down the lineup, not sure I can trust him...

Blashill's response was, I want to throw him on the first line and play him 15 minutes a game, I think he makes us better.

I think it is 100% this. I think there is zero chance Babs starts Larkin as his 1st line winger. I doubt he starts on the top 2 lines period and Holland is a firm believer in kids getting ice time and games. The two players I think babs fought for were Jurco and Flip and I feel both were rushed and their offensive games hampered in the NHL. It's defense 100% first. You make a mistake on the offensive side you sit.

Leafs fans better hope Nylander is held in the AHL until he is ready to dominate offensively like Nyquist otherwise Babs will bench him or play him on the 4th line with plugs until he can learn perfect d.

 

[Retire91]

Babs would play him as a grinder and coach the skill out of him. Then as soon as injuries cleared up he would be sent down.

 

[14ari13]

Leafs fans are arguing that if Larkin were on the Leafs Babs would insist he go to the AHL just like he did with Nylander.

IMO they don't yet understand the preferential treatment Babcok gives to Babs types of players (Larkin, Abby..etc) over skill guys (Nylander, Nyquist, Tatar..etc)

The Wings had a coach called Bowman. How many actually remember him? He was hard on young players, much worse than Babcock if I remember right.
Babcock actually chased away older players. Yzerman (blasphemy) and shanahan come to my mind.

I also think Holland was more open to the idea being Larkin is a hometown kid and the story is great for business and PR to have a Detroit kid make the team. Creates a positive buzz and excitement for the team in a big way.

Wouldn't be the same thing in Toronto.

This is a great move by Holland/organisation. Larkin might sell tickets.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

You would say he is better than Z, or Dats, maybe even Fischer when they where young? I don't really know where he fits in the past 20 years but I think it is safe to say he is a top 5 but to flat out say he is the best is kinda a hard act to follow.

He's better than Dats and Z were at 19, that's beyond question.

Doesn't mean he will be as good as them at 25 or 30 either.

 

[PuckDynasty]

No idea, but kudos to the Wings brass and their scouting staff for again finding a potential top 5 player in the middle of the first round.

 

[Henkka]

Good players push trough no matter what.

Leafs.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Babs would play him as a grinder and coach the skill out of him. Then as soon as injuries cleared up he would be sent down.

This is pretty much my thought on Babcock as well. He loves his grinders. He's a good coach and all, but I think it was time for him to go elsewhere.

 

[Dotter]

This is pretty much my thought on Babcock as well. He loves his grinders. He's a good coach and all, but I think it was time for him to go elsewhere.

I know it's only been 2 games + preseason, but how energized this team looks playing under Blashill reminds me of the Wings of the mid 90s in terms of resilience and speed. I can't remember watching a team this exciting since the Fedorov years.

I was afraid of losing Babcock would mean the demise of this team. I completely underrated Blashill despite how he dominated the AHL every year he's coached there.

This club finally has life/pulse again. The players looked dejected under Babcock, especially the young players.

 

[FlashyG]

Larkin wouldn't have been playing with the Leafs if he was in Toronto either.

It's not a Babcock or Holland thing, its the matter of the Leafs being terrible whether Larkin, Nylander, Marner or all 3 were on the team.

All 3 would arguably be the offensive catalysts for the team and as such opposing coaches would be focusing most of their defensive efforts on stopping them. They'd also be facing the oppositions best shut down forwards and defenders.

Why subject your best players to that, while also teaching them your teams system on a team that is going to struggle with or without them?

It seems more beneficial to the team and the prospects to have them play in junior or in the AHL where they will face a more manageable level of opposition and on teams that will certainly be more successful.

On top of that the team will likely finish with an even better draft pick to continue to stock pile talent for when the team is actually ready to contend.

 

[Flowah]

The Wings had a coach called Bowman. How many actually remember him? He was hard on young players, much worse than Babcock if I remember right.
Babcock actually chased away older players. Yzerman (blasphemy) and shanahan come to my mind.

I thought Yzerman called it because of his knee? With Shanny I've heard that story before, but never for Yzerman.

 

[Houston Red Winger]

Babcock has his plus and minuses as a coach. In the minus column, he does not know how to coach young, offensively skilled players. He demands first that they play an aggressive, physical, error-free and defensively focused game. Then he starts them out on the 4th line and tells them to grind it out. When they inevitably struggle with all that, he gets inside their head and sucks their confidence right out of them. Jurco is the prime example of this, but their are many others. Babcock sets them up for failure. Glendening and Sheahan responded well to this coaching style, but most do not. With veterans, I thought Babcock was a pretty good coach.

Blashill is terrific at developing young talent, and this is the right time for him to lead a young and up coming Red Wing team loaded with young talent. I am really looking forward to watching the team this year!