Pointing the Finger at Bergevin? Part II

[optimus2861]

Your argument makes no sense.

How are you improving your team offensively by taking a 20 year old and putting him in a position where he has more non-offensive responsibility?

Therrien shelters the beejezus out of Desharnais whenever he's at #1C. He tries to give him cushy matchups and a plethora of OZ-starts. I think there was a game not too long ago where Desharnais took zero defensive zone draws.

Do something similar for Galchenyuk while he's learning the position at the NHL level. It should've been done all ****ing year, so that he would've been ready to take on the heavier burdens in the playoffs and on into next season. Hell, Galchenyuk should've been taking reps at center last year! Center is the position Bergevin says he was drafted for! So why the hell isn't he playing it?!?!

But no, we've got to start from square #1 with Galchenyuk at C next season, because little Davey needed his 48 points. Couldn't even crack 50 this year. Pathetic coach and his beloved midget pet. Bah!

 

[Lebowski]

Petry is a guy they should definitely work to retain. Vanek I think they made the right move, he disappeared at playoff time and he's gone backwards as a player the last few years. Minnesota is probably regretting that investment...

I'd take back Vanek at his current contract in the blink of an eye. Like him or not, he's a 1st line winger skill guy that's good for 50-60 points minimum a year. Add him to our current line-up and he makes one hell of a difference to the overall outlook of our offense.

He's not the greatest of warriors in the playoffs... So be it. Neither is Pacioretty, or Markov, or Plekanec, and all of these guys have been big assets on this team for years.

Habs fans always go through the same cycle. Cry their hearts out to get star players. Adore them for a while. Turn on them the minute things don't go so well without giving them a chance to get back up. Vanek would turn our poor offense into a respectable offense, I believe.

 

[Phenom]

They did manage to get Beaulieu established as a top 6 D-man, and Pateryn as at Least a 7-8 D. Also DLR had a great development year.

At some point you also have to face the fact that we didn't have a Kucherov & Johnson among our Pro-ready prospects.

While i agree with the Beaulieu situation, we're talking about our offense here.

When you have Patches+Galchenyuk and Plekanec+Andrighetto playing well together, then to demolish that and have guys like Desharnais, Parenteau and Weise playing in top 6 instead, we have some problems here.

It just feels like we're never going to be able to groom and nourish our prospects and youngsters properly.

Look at Kucherov, Johnson, Gaudreau, etc. We're far from that level of prospect development.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

In a few years, we're going to look back at the Therrien's era and say: "Such a shame, what a waste that was."

This is a "mess" for me, just a different kind of mess we were in back in the 2000s.

Fair enough. I completely agree about Therrien. His employment has hurt us beyond that last two years. He's terrible at developing talent and I can't wait until he's gone.

Maybe right now ti doesn't look that bad, but if the bumbling GM continues to use the same favourites playing hack of a coach for the foreseeable future in 2-3 years' time we could very easily be lamenting the wasted prime years from elite/franchise calibre players.

I'd say there are plenty of great pieces in place, but as long as they have an incompetent coach who shows no signs of being able to grow and mature as a coach, and as long as the have a GM who fails to address weaknesses it's hard to say they're in good shape overall.

This team should have taken a big step forward this year.

Don't let the point total on the seaosn fool you, becuase they did nothing of the sort.

The GM is in a great position now. Whether he succeeds or fails remains to be seen. But we're in a good position with what we've got.

That doesn't mean he can't screw it up...

We were in good shape 3 years ago with this same lineup, is your end game just making the playoffs and then get stomped and embarrassed?

Says the guy who just suggested we trade our best goal scorer while on a great contract...

You don't manage expectations in Montréal. We're tired of being managed. We need to be a contender. We have the goalie to be. It's the summer of truth for him.

What scares me the most is that if the Gionta and Gorges departure is called a transition year...how the heck will you call the departure of Pleks, DD, Emelin and Co? But yeah, there's so many years you can be in transition. I just feel it's another excuse. We have nothing to envy to the Bruins Wheel of excuses anymore.

Going back to your management expectatations...I think that's what we will have in the PC. Going to say that we have a great basis, that we have key players at key positions and that while he always look to improve his team, he's not going to destroy it either. He will say that stability is important and etc. I really can't wait till this PC is done and over with so that I'd forget about it and still think he's going to make some bold moves....

You and I are on the same page.

Therrien takes the brunt of it. From the start of the season, and absolutely no later than December he should have been running this C lineup:

27 - 14 - 81 - 20

Instead after he BS'ed his excuse to put Galchenyuk back to wing, and started actively trying to destroy Eller's confidence, he ran this:

51 - 14 - 25 - 20

Vastly inferior.

Bergevin didn't make him do that. That was all Therrien, scheming to get rid of Eller and hating to undermine his beloved midget pet by letting Galchenyuk have his spot.

Bergevin does bear some blame for not getting help on the wings, but again, Therrien. Andrighetto comes up, scores 3 points in 3 games, Therrien banishes him to 6 minutes on the 4th line, Ghetto goes expectedly pointless, Therrien stops using him, demoted, never seen again. Thomas, similar. Sekac, scores first NHL goal on home ice, inexplicably benched for 7 games, never given a proper look in top-6, chased right off the roster.

Therrien, Therrien, Therrien. It all circles back to him.

He needs to go. I won't comment further because it belongs in another thread.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Says the guy who just suggested we trade our best goal scorer while on a great contract...
.

Did I say what I would trade him for? Oh wait I didn't, you were just jumping the gun to defend the honor of your beloved. Don't worry MB would never trade PAC, he doesn't have the skill or the balls.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Did I say what I would trade him for? Oh wait I didn't, you were just jumping the gun to defend the honor of your beloved. Don't worry MB would never trade PAC, he doesn't have the skill or the balls.

No, you just came out with a post that suggested that trading our best goalscorer was a good idea.

I've never understood your posts. It's black or white with all of our GMs with you. Ever since Gauthier went away you've been on this crusade about Bergevin sucking.

Maybe he does suck... I don't know. He's made some good moves and some bad. But I'm not about to write him off. So by all means continue down this path of arguing that everything he does is wrong and suggesting that a team that is hurting for goals should go out and trade Max... but you aren't going to have a whole lot of credibility doing this.

 

[Monctonscout]

Therrien shelters the beejezus out of Desharnais whenever he's at #1C. He tries to give him cushy matchups and a plethora of OZ-starts. I think there was a game not too long ago where Desharnais took zero defensive zone draws.

Do something similar for Galchenyuk while he's learning the position at the NHL level. It should've been done all ****ing year, so that he would've been ready to take on the heavier burdens in the playoffs and on into next season. Hell, Galchenyuk should've been taking reps at center last year! Center is the position Bergevin says he was drafted for! So why the hell isn't he playing it?!?!

But no, we've got to start from square #1 with Galchenyuk at C next season, because little Davey needed his 48 points. Couldn't even crack 50 this year. Pathetic coach and his beloved midget pet. Bah!

That's the problem, Desharnais isn't getting sheltered, he's used like a top offensive line(when Pacioretty is on his line) or #2 offensive line(when he isn't). Yeah they get more o-zone starts(as they should logically) but also face better d-men and shutdown forwards. I don't have the numbers, but the difference in o-zone starts is marginal except for Malhotra, who got a pile of d-zone starts due to faceoffs.

Galchenyuk is more sheltered on LW than Desharnais at C, regardless of zone starts. That's the whole reason he's currently on LW, to free him up to bloom offensively.

http://www.habsolumentfan.com/marc-bergevin-en-entrevue-dans-une-roulotte/2015/04/43750

...but I guess it's more fun to **** on Therrien than actually live in reality.

If playing center is a boost of production, let's move Pacioretty there, he'll be a 90 point center...HF boards logic

 

[Monctonscout]

I'd take back Vanek at his current contract in the blink of an eye. Like him or not, he's a 1st line winger skill guy that's good for 50-60 points minimum a year. Add him to our current line-up and he makes one hell of a difference to the overall outlook of our offense.

He's not the greatest of warriors in the playoffs... So be it. Neither is Pacioretty, or Markov, or Plekanec, and all of these guys have been big assets on this team for years.

Habs fans always go through the same cycle. Cry their hearts out to get star players. Adore them for a while. Turn on them the minute things don't go so well without giving them a chance to get back up. Vanek would turn our poor offense into a respectable offense, I believe.

Did you sleep through last year's playoffs when Vanek played softer than toilet paper and produced almost night?

 

[The Nightman]

I'd take back Vanek at his current contract in the blink of an eye. Like him or not, he's a 1st line winger skill guy that's good for 50-60 points minimum a year. Add him to our current line-up and he makes one hell of a difference to the overall outlook of our offense.

He's not the greatest of warriors in the playoffs... So be it. Neither is Pacioretty, or Markov, or Plekanec, and all of these guys have been big assets on this team for years.

Habs fans always go through the same cycle. Cry their hearts out to get star players. Adore them for a while. Turn on them the minute things don't go so well without giving them a chance to get back up. Vanek would turn our poor offense into a respectable offense, I believe.

Go read the Wild forum, they hate Vanek and want him gone. He was absolutely terrible in the playoffs this year.

 

[optimus2861]

Galchenyuk is more sheltered on LW than Desharnais at C, regardless of zone starts. That's the whole reason he's currently on LW, to free him up to bloom offensively.

As has been said repeatedly in the Galchenyuk threads, his skillset is much better suited to playing C than W. He tore it up during his brief stint at C this season, then Therrien got tired of him showing up little Davey and kicked him back to W.

...but I guess it's more fun to **** on Therrien than actually live in reality.

Whatever.

If playing center is a boost of production, let's move Pacioretty there, he'll be a 90 point center...HF boards logic

I'm done.

 

[LaP]

I'm done.

I was about to write something but then in the process I came to the same conclusion as you

 

[Richiebottles]

Did I say what I would trade him for? Oh wait I didn't, you were just jumping the gun to defend the honor of your beloved. Don't worry MB would never trade PAC, he doesn't have the skill or the balls.

This is really a first I think. Let's trade our 40 goal scorer when we can't score goals.

Great plan.

 

[Andy]

I'm really not sure why people are actually defended the notion of keeping Galchenyuk at the wing, all the while defending the status of quo of DD remaining at centre. There will be an adjustment period for Chucky for sure, but it's worth the investment. We've invested the last three years in an aging diminutive centre who is average offensively. It's absurd.

 

[lamp9post]

This is really a first I think. Let's trade our 40 goal scorer when we can't score goals.

Great plan.

I wouldn't write the idea off completely, but it wouldn't be something I would seek out to do. Of course like everything it would depend on the return.

If we can get something similar to what Philly got for Carter (Voracek + top 10 pick), I think you'd at least have to think about it.

 

[BLONG7]

I'm really not sure why people are actually defended the notion of keeping Galchenyuk at the wing, all the while defending the status of quo of DD remaining at centre. There will be an adjustment period for Chucky for sure, but it's worth the investment. We've invested the last three years in an aging diminutive centre who is average offensively. It's absurd.

Agreed....I would like to see Chucky and Eller as 1-2 guys, and Pleks in the shutdown role as a 3rd line centre, who kills penalties....ala Carbo in his days....

DD cannot be part of the team going forward...he just can't...

 

[phoque taupe]

Since this year was pretty much wasted (picks on Petry and for depths, defeated in round 2)
I guess that year would have been great for AG to learn the hard way how to play C in the big show.

Transition year, my ass

Note2myself : will have to stop refreshing those threads about MT & MB or it will be a loooooooooong summer

 

[Grant McCagg]

LOL at the suggestion Galchenyuk is supposed to bloom offensively on the wing. Chucky needs the entire ice to properly develop..he's great east west, has terrific puck possession skills, and vision..he was born to play center.

As a certain scout has repeated to me time and again this season...Chuck was drafted to play center...he is being hamstrung severely by Therrien who for reasons only known to him is absolutely enamoured with Desharnais.

 

[Habit11]

LOL at the suggestion Galchenyuk is supposed to bloom offensively on the wing. Chucky needs the entire ice to properly develop..he's great east west, has terrific puck possession skills, and vision..he was born to play center.

As a certain scout has repeated to me time and again this season...Chuck was drafted to play center...he is being hamstrung severely by Therrien who for reasons only known to him is absolutely enamoured with Desharnais.

Which has been obvious to everyone for 3 seasons. Making Galchenyuk play north/south on left wing doesn't make the most of who he is, it simplifies and limits who he is, and hasn't benefited him or the team this season or playoffs.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Which has been obvious to everyone for 3 seasons. Making Galchenyuk play north/south on left wing doesn't make the most of who he is, it simplifies and limits who he is, and hasn't benefited him or the team this season or playoffs.

Never mind his skating is not threatening at all. He needs to use the east-west space on the ice a la Joe Thornton.

And give him time on the PP. You don't have to defend much on a power play.

 

[Lebowski]

Did you sleep through last year's playoffs when Vanek played softer than toilet paper and produced almost night?

Go read the Wild forum, they hate Vanek and want him gone. He was absolutely terrible in the playoffs this year.

I'm well aware of that. Doesn't change the fact having him on the first line, knocking down Gallagher on the 2nd and Weise on the 3rd, would be huge for our team.

 

[phillytennis]

Agreed....I would like to see Chucky and Eller as 1-2 guys, and Pleks in the shutdown role as a 3rd line centre, who kills penalties....ala Carbo in his days....

DD cannot be part of the team going forward...he just can't...

Pacioretty plays better with Desharnais than Eller or Galchenyuk...DD is the best passer on the team.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Pacioretty plays better with Desharnais than Eller or Galchenyuk...DD is the best passer on the team.

DD is not. Galchenyuk is better. There is no way a 50 points center is the perfect complement for a 35 goal scorer.

 

[Lebowski]

Pacioretty plays better with Desharnais than Eller or Galchenyuk...DD is the best passer on the team.

How would you know how Pacioretty would play with Eller? I don't recall ever seeing them together.

As far as I know, Max played some of his best hockey when Galchenyuk was his center.

DD isn't the best passer on the team. It's just that he refuses to shoot, to an irritating level, I'd add.

 

[DaHabMan]

That's the problem, Desharnais isn't getting sheltered, he's used like a top offensive line(when Pacioretty is on his line) or #2 offensive line(when he isn't). Yeah they get more o-zone starts(as they should logically) but also face better d-men and shutdown forwards. I don't have the numbers, but the difference in o-zone starts is marginal except for Malhotra, who got a pile of d-zone starts due to faceoffs.

Galchenyuk is more sheltered on LW than Desharnais at C, regardless of zone starts. That's the whole reason he's currently on LW, to free him up to bloom offensively.

http://www.habsolumentfan.com/marc-bergevin-en-entrevue-dans-une-roulotte/2015/04/43750

...but I guess it's more fun to **** on Therrien than actually live in reality.

If playing center is a boost of production, let's move Pacioretty there, he'll be a 90 point center...HF boards logic

Wait......isnt Galchenyuks natural position C and not W? Dont get the comparison with Patches...hes a natural winger...he plays on the wing to maximize his efficiency. You should play players at their natural positions...isnt thar what caps fans were *****ing about during ovys down years when he was put at right wing instead of left wing...how about seguin playing the wing instead of C in boston? If not playing at your natural position affects those players...some of the best in the league...how the heck do you not think it affects a young developping, not established player like Galchenyuk? How do you explain his burst of confidence and stats from that position? He had a hat trick playing center for christ sake. Bottom line...put him at center, its where hes comfortable and where he should be. Weve already wasted two yrs of development for nothing...its time to stop wasting it and let him develop

 

[Phenom]

Pacioretty plays better with Desharnais than Eller or Galchenyuk...DD is the best passer on the team.

Hi Michel. May god help us all.