Post-Game Talk: Plus-Minus Thread | Penguins 7, Canadiens 6

[Sidney the Kidney]

+The offense. Although Price was pretty bad tonight, so I'm not sure how much of a plus the team offense should get. I thought Sid and Kunitz were showing great chemistry tonight, however.

+Brandon Sutter. He stepped up offensively when the team needed him.

+Bennett and Despres. I thought the youngsters acquitted themselves quite well.

+Mark Eaton. Actually he wasn't really a plus, but compared to Orpik and Letang, I actually had more confidence when he was on the ice. That speaks volumes about Orpik and Letang's night.

-The defense. Well, mainly the whole defensive coverage, not necessarily the six guys playing defense. We're a mess in our own zone.

-Vokoun. He's been bad the past three games. Hopefully he can turn this around, otherwise he's not going to be giving Fleury a "push" come playoff time.

-Orpik and Letang. They just looked ridiculously dumb out there. Ironic that Letang ends up with 4 assists, but yet still ends up a -2 for the night. Orpik pisses me off, especially. At least Letang brings some offense. What the hell does Orpik bring?

-An additional minus for just how sloppy we look. Every single time the opposition enters our zone, it's like five guys running around scrambling to figure out where they should be.

 

[Tender Rip]

It means a lot. You have to qualify him as an RFA at $2 million. He's essentially a rental for a team right now, and he's playing terrible hockey. No contender would want that. Why would an also-ran want that?

We're wasting time with Kennedy. Sit him down and let somebody else play. Then don't qualify him and let him walk. These are diminishing returns that aren't coming back.

He's not a big guy. It's quite possible he can no longer be effective playing his style. It happens.

When I talk about making a hockey trade, I don't have Kennedy in mind. Nobody wants him.

1: For the sake of accountability alone, if we aren't scratching TK, at least he has to get 4th line minutes until he shows that his compete level and decision making merits more.
2: From an asset management point of view, I would rather that we try and see if TK can get back to normal shape before ditching him. Otherwise we are indeed going to get nothing, and I would rather he could be a throw-in in a trade. And that door isn't closed as long as he gets to producing something.... but at this time of year, granted, it has got to be bloody soon.

 

[jmelm]

For all the **** Bylsma was taking for having Cooke with Sutter and Neal, that line looked pretty damn good.

Plus for a guy who is "terrible offensively", Letang is now a point per game and leads all defensemen despite missing 3 games. Sure he's frustrating but that kind of production is, well, great.

Agreed on both counts. Letang is the leading Norris candidate right now, just like he may have been had he played the full season last year. ****, people can be so crazy and demanding on here. If you watch Doughty or Keith or Weber every night you will see holes in their game, too. You have to look at the sum and the overall impact rather than micro-analyze. If you look at it that way, Letang has been absolutely fantastic next year. And people think he won't keep getting better? He's 25 years old. I keep saying: Lidstrom won SEVEN Norris trophies, and yet he didn't even win his first until he was 30. People are spoiled & unrealistic.

And re Bylsma: yes, he finally made an adjustment in the forward lines, which paid off. Jeffrey and BB and getting to play significant minutes, and he found a better match for Neal/Sutter. But at the same time, putting Eaton in for Bortuzzo? And more importantly, why didn't he pull Vokoun after the 3rd or 4th goal against? Would have changed the complexion of the game, and been a VERY effective strategy to change the momentum, get his team's attention, and just show some strategy. But it was a step forward, I suppose.

Eaton was solid, which is good, but I also hope we never have to see him again. It's nice to know he's there, though.

I'd like to see Zatkoff called up and given a start in the next couple weeks.

Yes, and if Zatkoff keeps up his good play and Vokoun keeps up his poor play, we can bring Zatkoff up next season and use an "Amnesty Buyout" or trade Vokoun, which would save about $1.5 million against the cap. I do expect Vokoun to turn things around eventually, but it's yet another back-up plan, and another way to clear cap space for next year, if needed.

If there was ever a game endorsed by Shane Endicott, that was it.

hahaha! Dam right. This was a crazy game. The Shane Endicott thing is legendary. Who knew it would be so applicable.

 

[Illinest]

Despres needs to play every day. Can't sit him any more. I think he sees the ice better than any of our defensemen including the guy who leads the league in blue-line scoring.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Boychuk somewhat solves the Kennedy problem. Whatever people thought of Boychuk, he certainly isn't a liability on the ice.

His lack of strength and defensive awareness make him a liability on a checking line. He doesn't solve the problem, he just creates a different one. They need someone physical and defensively responsible to fill that spot.

 

[IcedCapp]

His lack of strength and defensive awareness make him a liability on a checking line. He doesn't solve the problem, he just creates a different one. They need someone physical and defensively responsible to fill that spot.

can we bench TK for a game and just watch those problems play out?

btw, Rossi penned an article today (I only read it because Yohe tweeted it out and the title was Pro-Bylsma) which to me suggested Shero might be aggressive in improving his roster before the playoffs.

We'll see.

I'm going to go bath in bleach now.

 

[wgknestrick]

His lack of strength and defensive awareness make him a liability on a checking line. He doesn't solve the problem, he just creates a different one. They need someone physical and defensively responsible to fill that spot.

I will take TK's +3 and 4pts all day, every day, instead of Glass's 0pts and -6. Keep things in perspective. Sure TK can play better, but he is nowhere near the "hot seat".

Ask yourself what has Glass done?

 

[Fire Shero*]

Brooks Orpik is horrible. Trade the guy before he loses all value.

Vokoun is atrocious. He's turning into Brent Johnson of last year.

Tanner Glass is absolutely worthless.

 

[Zen Arcade]

I will take TK's +3 and 4pts all day, every day, instead of Glass's 0pts and -6. Keep things in perspective. Sure TK can play better, but he is nowhere near the "hot seat".

Ask yourself what has Glass done?

Led the team in hits? He's a 4th liner, I'm not sure what people want from him.

Guys like Adams and Glass get more grief than they deserve on here when the main problem is Bylsma trying to use them as a shut down line.

They're a built to be a physical, forechecking line that can bring energy, not some defensive juggernaut.

 

[volcom]

Agreed on both counts. Letang is the leading Norris candidate right now, just like he may have been had he played the full season last year. ****, people can be so crazy and demanding on here. If you watch Doughty or Keith or Weber every night you will see holes in their game, too. You have to look at the sum and the overall impact rather than micro-analyze. If you look at it that way, Letang has been absolutely fantastic next year. And people think he won't keep getting better? He's 25 years old. I keep saying: Lidstrom won SEVEN Norris trophies, and yet he didn't even win his first until he was 30. People are spoiled & unrealis

He probaly is the leading candidate right now. But i just want to throw a name out there that might be a dark horse and thats Oliver Ekman-Larsson (I don't really see ppl talk about him as much). He doesn't put points like Letang, so that's why I'm giving Letang the edge and plus I think OEL is only 21

 

[Pancakes]

You know Sid is only five goals behind the league lead in that category as well. He's also taking a ton of shots despite how much we get on him for being too pass-first. He's in fact nearly at the top of the league in SOG, and has more than Stamkos.

I think that says something about just how much Sid has the puck, and how effective he is with it. I would not be the least bit surprised to see Sid heat up with goal scoring and take over the lead in that aspect of the league as well.

It's truly a shame he got hurt because he could be chasing his third ross and third rocket richard right now. He's that good, and I still think we haven't seen the absolute best from him yet this year. With the amount of chances he creates game in and game out, it's only a matter of time before he racks up a five or six point game. I'm still to this day amazed that he hasn't had a 4 goal game yet, and I feel like that's coming too.

Perhaps the scariest thing with Sid is that Malkin is hurt right now and when Malkin is in the lineup he hasn't been at full Geno level yet. If he comes back and starts playing like he did last year, and Sid maintains his current form...

Then again we said that last year and we all know how that turned out. But I think this team has the potential to be god damned terrifying, even as flawed as it is.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

can we bench TK for a game and just watch those problems play out?

btw, Rossi penned an article today (I only read it because Yohe tweeted it out and the title was Pro-Bylsma) which to me suggested Shero might be aggressive in improving his roster before the playoffs.

We'll see.

I'm going to go bath in bleach now.

So we should expect the exact opposite to happen?

 

[ColePens]

Orpik was BRUTAL. Just brutal. I'm convinced he can go away and we wouldn't miss him. He was awful.

Our entire defense is back to watching the play and not being aggressive. What gives? It's so frustrating to watch Penguin games. Just so frustrating.

 

[ColePens]

can we bench TK for a game and just watch those problems play out?

btw, Rossi penned an article today (I only read it because Yohe tweeted it out and the title was Pro-Bylsma) which to me suggested Shero might be aggressive in improving his roster before the playoffs.

We'll see.

I'm going to go bath in bleach now.

They can bring in whoever they want - it won't make a difference. After seeing tonight's game and watching the same ****ing mistakes for years now, does it even matter? This team needs a serious wake up call and their accountabilibuddy to actually start coaching again.

It will be a minor miracle with everything clicking at the right time for us to win a Cup. We are a hot mess out there.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

This play by Orpik is exactly why I was pissed when we skipped on Trouba and picked Pouliot. I believe every defensive corps needs a hitter, at least one, and Orpik has been declining for years. He was abysmal last season, and has been pretty awful this one as well at times.

 

[turd]

This play by Orpik is exactly why I was pissed when we skipped on Trouba and picked Pouliot. I believe every defensive corps needs a hitter, at least one, and Orpik has been declining for years. He was abysmal last season, and has been pretty awful this one as well at times.

Have no fear, we got Harrison Ruopp for Michalek......

 

[JTG]

Niskanen is doing his best Goligoski impression. Awesome strings of games, followed up by ****.

Paul Martin's value can be seen when he's playing - huge ES mins, PP mins, and SH mins. Paul Martin's value can be seen even more when he's not playing. I think he's been our MVP this season.

 

[JTG]

This play by Orpik is exactly why I was pissed when we skipped on Trouba and picked Pouliot. I believe every defensive corps needs a hitter, at least one, and Orpik has been declining for years. He was abysmal last season, and has been pretty awful this one as well at times.

Shero will find himself a big hitting defenseman in this next draft. Probably in the first 2 rounds.

 

[ILikeTurtles]

Niskanen is doing his best Goligoski impression. Awesome strings of games, followed up by ****.

Paul Martin's value can be seen when he's playing - huge ES mins, PP mins, and SH mins. Paul Martin's value can be seen even more when he's not playing. I think he's been our MVP this season.

There is no doubt he was not his best last season, but he was missed tonight. He is a solid player when playing the right way, as a fan I am very glad he has turned his game around.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Shero will find himself a big hitting defenseman in this next draft. Probably in the first 2 rounds.

Probably both picks in the first 2 rounds actually.

 

[Captain Hook]

Impressive offense and an entertaining game. The brand of hockey they are playing is still alarming. They really do remind me of the Caps under Boudreau. They can score a crap load of goals and will win lots of games but it's hard to take them seriously because of their meltdowns on the defensive side.

I thought Niskanen and Letang did far better separated in this one than they had been doing together.

Eaton also looked solid. He looked more mobile than I thought he would.

 

[SID87BORG]

"Daypray" is actually the correct way of saying Despres' name, or at least it is when speaking in French...

Back on topic:

wild game and thank God for Sutter, & Sid's line this game cuz defense and Vokoun were clearly not there......

 

[Alesle]

Sutter with his best game as a Penguin, and I also thought Neal had his best game of the last month or so. Kunitz seems to have found his game lately after a poor start to the season. Desprès yet again shows why he should be in the lineup.

Vokoun with a rough night. Kennedy with two mind boggling penalties in addition to his less than stellar play, and on defense neither Orpik nor Niskanen looked particularly sharp.

I also have to mention that Eaton didn't look any worse than Engelland have so far this season, so I guess he gets a pass.

 

[DoktorZaius]

+ Composure, despite the fact that the sky was falling. We didn't go out of control and take a bunch of frustration penalties. In the past, and especially against Philly, we've taken really stupid penalties even when games are even or only down by 1.

 

[Steve Durbano]

It was 1980's hockey night in Montreal.

Mario would have had 9 points last night.