Proposal: Please Sell This Team, Melnyk.

[TheBradyBunch]

Michalek went where he wanted to, ask any Pens fan how that situation unfolded. Also, Michalek might be an upgrade but he's overpaid and not needed. He doesnt come close to putting us over the top and he's not a long term option.

You continuously describe spending for the sake of spending. They wont do that. They will continue to target players they think are worth their contract, that is the impact of the budget. They are not in the position to overpay for guys. Funny, because if they did you would certainly be the first to complain.

 

[Kickabrat]

From 2012... Melnyk said the teams done spending
http://the6thsens.com/2012-articles/eugene-melnyk-speaks-embraces-small-market-mentality.html

“I gave up with this theory about going over the top. I really did. We blew our brains out spending to the cap and what we proved last year is that we don’t have to do that. I mean, all that does is cover up our mistakes. Really, at the end of the day, if you invest into scouting, into development of these players, you’re going to get what you’re going to get. And you can’t buy that. You can’t buy heart. You can’t buy the fans. You can’t buy the dressing room. And my attitude, look, we were going to bid on a couple of these (free agents). We were prepared to. We had presentations done. We were all ready to go. We put our July 1st holidays on hold and I called Bryan two days before and I said, ‘Bryan, did you see these contracts and numbers that these people are throwing around?’ and he said ‘Yep. That is what we’re going to have to pay.’ And I said, ‘Do you want to blow your weekend with your grandkids and kids on July 1st and waste our time because we’re not going to spend that kind of money?’ And he says, ‘No, let’s enjoy our barbeques and let somebody else blow their brains out.’ And they did it. I don’t wish them bad luck, but I don’t think that (spending frivolously) is the solution.â€

Thanks for finally pointing out that Melnyk was prepared to up the budget and spend on UFA's. Melnyk was correct in his assessment that the salaries players (and I'm assuming he meant Clarkson) were looking for was ridiculous. I don't get how not spending money on stupid contracts just to appease fair weather fans like Fuhr is equivalent to small market mentality.

 

[Ouroboros]

Those quotes are from July 2012 - they're about Parise and Suter.

 

[Benjamin]

That really was not because of budget but it was to make the deal more appealing as for Gonacher that was due to there was no room for him.

If they needed a roster spot for Hemsky, why waive Conacher when Kassian(who they went out of their way of saying wont be back) could be waived?

Conacher is on a 2-way. Kassian is on a 1-way. They saved money my waiving Conacher and dont save money by waiving Kassian. Conacher was solely waived because of the budget.

 

[sam2020]

If they needed a roster spot for Hemsky, why waive Conacher when Kassian(who they went out of their way of saying wont be back) could be waived?

Conacher is on a 2-way. Kassian is on a 1-way. They saved money my waiving Conacher and dont save money by waiving Kassian. Conacher was solely waived because of the budget.

Any team would do the same thing you can go on about it being about the budget with out any proof of that but every other team would make the same move.

 

[Qward]

Michalek went where he wanted to, ask any Pens fan how that situation unfolded. Also, Michalek might be an upgrade but he's overpaid and not needed. He doesnt come close to putting us over the top and he's not a long term option.

You continuously describe spending for the sake of spending. They wont do that. They will continue to target players they think are worth their contract, that is the impact of the budget. They are not in the position to overpay for guys. Funny, because if they did you would certainly be the first to complain.

“He told me what the contract was and what he was going to do, and I said, ‘That’s great, but unless you take an equal contract back, I can’t do it,’ †Murray told the Sun Saturday. “So I was never really in it.â€

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/06/23/no-deal-for-other-michalek

Amazing what happens when you base your opinions on facts.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/06/23/no-deal-for-other-michalek

Amazing what happens when you base your opinions on facts.

I dont see how that refutes anything that I said. Go ask any Pens fan, Shero sent Michalek where he wanted. Not to mention, as I said, Michalek is would be a slight upgrade at a huge cost. We already had 8 DMen on the roster. Acquiring him made very little sense given where this team was at. He would be playing the same role as Phillips will for almost 2x the price.

They looked at him and it didnt make sense... guess what? That happens with other teams too...!

 

[StefanW]

Any team would do the same thing you can go on about it being about the budget with out any proof of that but every other team would make the same move.

I am trying to think of examples of other teams dumping RFAs who have value for nothing to save a small amount of budget space (pro-rated) and I am coming up blank. Examples please?

 

[Benjamin]

Any team would do the same thing you can go on about it being about the budget with out any proof of that but every other team would make the same move.

You have no idea what other GM's would do.

Explain to me why waiving Conacher over Kassian makes sense. Please.

 

[sam2020]

You have no idea what other GM's would do.

Explain to me why waiving Conacher over Kassian makes sense. Please.

Kassian is a vet now right or wrong teams as a rule will keep a vet for that reason the experence.

 

[sam2020]

I am trying to think of examples of other teams dumping RFAs who have value for nothing to save a small amount of budget space (pro-rated) and I am coming up blank. Examples please?

My point is many teams dump players due to salary this idea big clubs will eat salarys is 100% false.

 

[Benjamin]

Kassian is a vet now right or wrong teams as a rule will keep a vet for that reason the experence.

This makes no sense. Reasoning and grammar.

 

[StefanW]

My point is many teams dump players due to salary this idea big clubs will eat salarys is 100% false.

I agree that big clubs eating salary is false, but I said nothing about that. I am trying to think of some other situation where another team dumped a player in the same way. We waived Conacher to make budget room for Hemsky, even though half of Hemsky's salary was eaten by the Oilers (which cost us an extra pick) and all salaries were pro-rated. If that is not an example of a extremely firm budget with absolutely no flexibility then nothing is.

 

[Micklebot]

You have no idea what other GM's would do.

Explain to me why waiving Conacher over Kassian makes sense. Please.

Perhaps they wanted to give Conacher the chance to play knowing he was no longer in their plans? Burke did this with Bryzgalov. At the time, he looked very promising but didn't fit into Anaheim's plans, so Burke gave him a chance to play.

Kassian wouldn't have been picked up, so waiving him just means being able to sending him to the minors.

 

[StefanW]

Perhaps they wanted to give Conacher the chance to play knowing he was no longer in their plans? Burke did this with Bryzgalov. At the time, he looked very promising but didn't fit into Anaheim's plans, so Burke gave him a chance to play.

Kassian wouldn't have been picked up, so waiving him just means being able to sending him to the minors.

I buy that BM helped him out, but it seems weird that we did not get a pick for him. I realize that putting him on waivers meant that he could not be sent down again, but it seems unlikely that Buffalo would have sent him down anyway considering the state of their roster at the end of the season. Besides, TM would not have claimed him purely as a minor leaguer.

 

[sam2020]

I agree that big clubs eating salary is false, but I said nothing about that. I am trying to think of some other situation where another team dumped a player in the same way. We waived Conacher to make budget room for Hemsky, even though half of Hemsky's salary was eaten by the Oilers (which cost us an extra pick) and all salaries were pro-rated. If that is not an example of a extremely firm budget with absolutely no flexibility then nothing is.

As for Hemsky's thats nothing to do with the budget no matter where he went that would have been the case more then likely teams do this and try and make the deal more appelaing that does happen we were not the first team and won't be the last.

 

[Micklebot]

I buy that BM helped him out, but it seems weird that we did not get a pick for him. I realize that putting him on waivers meant that he could not be sent down again, but it seems unlikely that Buffalo would have sent him down anyway considering the state of their roster at the end of the season. Besides, TM would not have claimed him purely as a minor leaguer.

Perhaps nobody was willing to offer a pick for him. Even then, the fact he didn't get a pick has no impact on budget. Waiving or trading for a pick clears his salary off just the same.

My point about sending someone down only related to the option of waiving Kassian, as he likely would have cleared, so it's not really giving him the opportunity to play.

The other potential explanation was that some teams did offer a pick for him, but only if he cleared waivers first. This would make sense for a team that saw long term potential, but had no immediate need at the NHL level. By trading for him after he clears, they could send him down to help the farm and hopefully progress enough for another shot later on. I don't think he would have cleared even if TM didn't bite, but it is a possible explanation of waiving him.

 

[The Fuhr*]

Thanks for finally pointing out that Melnyk was prepared to up the budget and spend on UFA's. Melnyk was correct in his assessment that the salaries players (and I'm assuming he meant Clarkson) were looking for was ridiculous. I don't get how not spending money on stupid contracts just to appease fair weather fans like Fuhr is equivalent to small market mentality.

I would like the Sens to spend as much as 2/3 of the league is spending.

If the Sens need to add 3-4 million dollars to upgrade a position like defense in season, I'd like to have an owner who would spend that to fix the problem.

If Ottawa is 20 or higher in spending I will not complain about the budget.

I simply don't think it's acceptable for a Canadian team to be a bottom cap team in the nhl today.

 

[Micklebot]

I would like the Sens to spend as much as 2/3 of the league is spending.

If the Sens need to add 3-4 million dollars to upgrade a position like defense in season, I'd like to have an owner who would spend that to fix the problem.

If Ottawa is 20 or higher in spending I will not complain about the budget.

I simply don't think it's acceptable for a Canadian team to be a bottom cap team in the nhl today.

Why spend when the return on investment isn't yet there? Our core is not ready to push for a cup run, so our spending in the top 2 thirds right now would do very little. If we're still bottom 5 in spending when Karlsson Turris, Zibanejad, Ceci, and Cowen (provided he reaches potetial) are into their peak years, then we'd have a problem.

An extra 10 mil in cap hits would put us in the top 5, but I doubt the players we could add would bring us on par with Pittsburgh, Boston, SJ, Chicago, St.Louis, Los Angeles, or Anaheim.

Until then all these complaints about the budget are just noise.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Why spend when the return on investment isn't yet there? Our core is not ready to push for a cup run, so our spending in the top 2 thirds right now would do very little. If we're still bottom 5 in spending when Karlsson Turris, Zibanejad, Ceci, and Cowen (provided he reaches potetial) are into their peak years, then we'd have a problem.

An extra 10 mil in cap hits would put us in the top 5, but I doubt the players we could add would bring us on par with Pittsburgh, Boston, SJ, Chicago, St.Louis, Los Angeles, or Anaheim.

Until then all these complaints about the budget are just noise.

Its actually incredible how few people seem to grasp or even consider this.

 

[thinkwild]

It’s always a funny criticism of GM’s to suggest that they could have gotten more for a player in trade. Perhaps arrogant impudence better describes it. Presumably the person making the criticism would have been grittier in negotiations and forced the other GM to give him what he wants?

Conacher added some peskiness during the pesky run, but clearly he wasn’t a prospect we were going to invest in developing, he had no trade value, he was a longshot to start with, and he was taking up roster space from bingo players we wanted to give opportunities to down the stretch.

Conacher, on the two-way, would have had a cheaper salary in the ahl if he cleared waivers. Unlike Kassian on a one-way who would have saved no money and cleared no roster spots if he wasn’t claimed. Seems kinda, like, d’uh? We had an opportunity to waste money for nothing and deny a good kid chance to play and we wasted it thus proving we are on a budget? Umm, i apologize, surely im missing something.

Fuhr do you think we should sign Mr. $3.7 mil or do we need to get $4.4 mil? Personally i think $3.7 mil is just as good a goal scorer plus he has more grit. However, we cant forget the intangibles of good ol' $2.1 mil. Now there's leadership. These spending decisions are tough.

 

[Qward]

I dont see how that refutes anything that I said. Go ask any Pens fan, Shero sent Michalek where he wanted. Not to mention, as I said, Michalek is would be a slight upgrade at a huge cost. We already had 8 DMen on the roster. Acquiring him made very little sense given where this team was at. He would be playing the same role as Phillips will for almost 2x the price.

They looked at him and it didnt make sense... guess what? That happens with other teams too...!

You mean they asked a guy with a NTC where he wanted to go? Hmmm, weird.

How would it have been a huge cost? a 3rd and two ECHL prospects.

It would have meant no need to sign Coro, Mike Lundin, Gilroy.

 

[harvey]

I think also that waiving Conacher was actually being nice to him (him ending up in a place he probably will play next year) and a favour to Tim (who i think really liked him in the first place). Always good to be nice to your relatives.

 

[Micklebot]

You mean they asked a guy with a NTC where he wanted to go? Hmmm, weird.

How would it have been a huge cost? a 3rd and two ECHL prospects.

It would have meant no need to sign Coro, Mike Lundin, Gilroy.

Well, he was 4 mil per and didn't look worth it while playing for the pens imo.

Aside from that, people are complaining that we didn't pick up a guy that has only played 70% of the last 3 seasons. Maybe that will change or would have been different for the sens, but I'm not losing sleep of missing that boat.

 

[The Fuhr*]

Why spend when the return on investment isn't yet there? Our core is not ready to push for a cup run, so our spending in the top 2 thirds right now would do very little. If we're still bottom 5 in spending when Karlsson Turris, Zibanejad, Ceci, and Cowen (provided he reaches potetial) are into their peak years, then we'd have a problem.

An extra 10 mil in cap hits would put us in the top 5, but I doubt the players we could add would bring us on par with Pittsburgh, Boston, SJ, Chicago, St.Louis, Los Angeles, or Anaheim.

Until then all these complaints about the budget are just noise.

Sens have
- 1C
- second line
- Franchise defenseman
- Game breaking offensive winger
- Number 1 G

If right now is not a good time to spend having all those pieces then it will never be a good time.

Spezza, MacArthur, Ryan, Methot and Anderson all UFA a year from now

Why would those UFAs want to stay here when ownership is not committed to win?

If the core is not good enough to win then the team needs to trade it's UFAs to be for youth... Can't let assets walk for nothing