Sportsnet: Playing hardball with Franson will cost Leafs

[Al14]

Less than 6 months ago had Josh Gorges said yes to waiving his NTC to come to Toronto then Cody Franson would be a Hab right now, and no longer a Leaf. So within this calendar year Nonis already deemed Franson expendable recently.

Now just a few months later is he going to lock him up long term for big money and make him a core piece going forward?

Going from expendable to invaluable seems like disorganized confusion as to what direction the GM is taking the team building in.

Hasn't Nonis already shown his hand in regards to how he views Franson?

He sure has! However, the circumstance may have changed significantly based on Franson's improved play so far.

This coming trade deadline may be interesting. Or not!

 

[Daisy Jane]

A concept, some here, have an extremely hard time comprehending.

now. i will say that the Leafs should know whom specifically whom they are not keeping and trying to move them abit earlier (and get picks or something) or try to move them after elimination (ie: draft fodder etc) Management should be more aggressive on this.

However. what hurts the leafs constantly is that the players that they have play very well up until deadline day. then everyone plays like poop. so it's easy to say NOW (because we're vets at the dissapoint - be pre-emptive, and just trade players now because at theback of our minds, we feel there's going to be a crash or something)

the Leafs make it difficult for themselves on all levels

i broke it down like this.


An Asset:
Picks
Prospects
Players
Cap Mobility.

If we don't 'do anything' we automatically gain cap mobility. (which in my opinion is hard to accept) because we've been ingrained not to let people 'go' for 'nothing'.

Picks is basically getting extra cap mobility but with the whip cream on top.
Prospects can affect your cap mobility/contract limits.

and Players (especially if it's bad contract for bad contract) affects your cap mobility.

we should be thinking
"How does this player affect my cap mobility in making moves any time of theyear?" then proceed. not

"WE NEED TO MOVE PLAYERS TO GET ASSETS, SO WE GET NOTHING."

however. re; Franson i think this is a rare opportunity for adecent player who is playing very well to get cap space + other assets

 

[Morbo]

I don't think it makes any difference. Franson has always been a tough sign and I don't expect that to change no matter what team he's with next year.

 

[thewave]

Bottom line is this.

If you trade players for picks etc then you have asset maneuverability. Say at sub prime values the sum of ALL assets that walked was.

1x 1st
2x 2nds
2x 3rds

With these picks you could conceivably land a top 4 D and perhaps a C in combination with trading cap (roster player).

You could also develop. As it stands you can do neither. Now instead of making a worthwhile trade we are stuck picking up FAs that the few actually want.

Trying to argue otherwise is asinine.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I don't think it makes any difference. Franson has always been a tough sign and I don't expect that to change no matter what team he's with next year.

bingo.
get something with his play as it is now, adjust for his leaving now, if we want him re-sign him and deal with the headache later

 

[noelllll*]

Let me guess, if you only asked that pretty girl out in Science class you were sure to get a date? If the Leafs are close to playoff spot or in contention, they wont trade players that will take the chances away from making the playoffs. Go figure, the team wants to win, and would rather make the playoffs than blowing things up for a chance at a player or two.

Bitter, eh?

The point was Leafs let assets walk for nothing far too often, and if they want to get better it's a trend that needs to stop.

picks + players > players

For the math lover in you


Sure, maybe those 2 specific players they could have kept and let walk, especially since they probably wouldn't return much (Kule, yeah. And I still think they should have traded him at the TDL). But for a player like Franson where the return would be something significant letting him go for nothing should not be acceptable.

 

[thewave]

bingo.
get something with his play as it is now, adjust for his leaving now, if we want him re-sign him and deal with the headache later

The main problem with this management is they are not realistic. They see 20 good games and believe they are contenders. They cite "Earned the right" to stay together. It's a stupid concept. They had one chance of really going for it and they blew that. Yes, the shortened season we had an unprecedented 3x Ppg players. We needed another legit D (JBo and Gio were talked about) and perhaps a G. Management sat on their thumbs and did nothing except Big Sexy, Ryan... Yes he would put us over the top. Honestly we could have been a conference final team that year.

That was a legit team and Nonnis failed to seize the day. They are always out of whack that way.

Get the assets back for players you can't sign always.

 

[thewave]

Bitter, eh?

The point was Leafs let assets walk for nothing far too often, and if they want to get better it's a trend that needs to stop.

picks + players > players

For the math lover in you


Sure, maybe those 2 specific players they could have kept and let walk, especially since they probably wouldn't return much (Kule, yeah. And I still think they should have traded him at the TDL). But for a player like Franson where the return would be something significant letting him go for nothing should not be acceptable.

Letting him go for nothing would be criminal unless you have a legit contender.

 

[New Liskeard]

Bitter, eh?

The point was Leafs let assets walk for nothing far too often, and if they want to get better it's a trend that needs to stop.

picks + players > players

For the math lover in you


Sure, maybe those 2 specific players they could have kept and let walk, especially since they probably wouldn't return much (Kule, yeah. And I still think they should have traded him at the TDL). But for a player like Franson where the return would be something significant letting him go for nothing should not be acceptable.

As long as the Leafs are in playoff contention, they have no reason to trade players for picks that ultimately weakens the team, and hurts the overall goal, making the playoffs. Every player that leaves, has their spot filled by someone else, the Leafs never loose players for nothing. Its about as simplistic as it could be.

 

[Daisy Jane]

The main problem with this management is they are not realistic. They see 20 good games and believe they are contenders. They cite "Earned the right" to stay together. It's a stupid concept. They had one chance of really going for it and they blew that. Yes, the shortened season we had an unprecedented 3x Ppg players. We needed another legit D (JBo and Gio were talked about) and perhaps a G. Management sat on their thumbs and did nothing except Big Sexy, Ryan... Yes he would put us over the top. Honestly we could have been a conference final team that year.

That was a legit team and Nonnis failed to seize the day. They are always out of whack that way.

Get the assets back for players you can't sign always.

don't get me wrong -i agree with you.

but i am just also saying that people can't say "nothing ever comes back" because asset is a good thing it shouldn't always be the default.

i think we'll do better with a moderately aggressive GM. (NOT a Burke type) but not too much of the 'wait and see' type. either. truthfully, id like to have Tallon (though giving Bolland that money though...)

 

[thewave]

As long as the Leafs are in playoff contention, they have no reason to trade players for picks that ultimately weakens the team, and hurts the overall goal, making the playoffs. Every player that leaves, has their spot filled by someone else, the Leafs never loose players for nothing. Its about as simplistic as it could be.

Simplistic is the short sighted view you are taking to building a flash in the pan playoff team vs. a long term contending franchise.

It doesn't get ANY simpler than THAT.

 

[thewave]

don't get me wrong -i agree with you.

but i am just also saying that people can't say "nothing ever comes back" because asset is a good thing it shouldn't always be the default.

i think we'll do better with a moderately aggressive GM. (NOT a Burke type) but not too much of the 'wait and see' type. either. truthfully, id like to have Tallon (though giving Bolland that money though...)

Sorry but you have to know when to pull the trigger. If nobody does it the team will be stuck in mediocrity forever.

 

[noelllll*]

As long as the Leafs are in playoff contention, they have no reason to trade players for picks that ultimately weakens the team, and hurts the overall goal, making the playoffs. Every player that leaves, has their spot filled by someone else, the Leafs never loose players for nothing. Its about as simplistic as it could be.

Well then it looks like we found our difference in opinion.

Making the playoffs shouldn't be the overall goal. Winning the Stanley Cup should.

Until mgmt believes that their group of players can contend for the Cup, they should very much be willing to "weaken" the team a little that year to improve their chances in the following years.

Making the playoffs and maybe even winning a round is pointless in the big picture.

See, if we finish 8th, 1 point ahead of 9th, you would consider that a victory? Still the same team. Still very low chance of winning the cup. Next year will very likely be the same, a toss up to make the playoffs. That's good enough? For a few more years then our players get old and back to the bottom we go..

 

[Longshot]

Why are the Leafs being criticized for how they have dealt with Franson?

Before this season he had not shown he was worthy of a big long-term deal and the Leafs didn't give him one.

He has responded by having a great season and setting himself up for a big pay day.

I don't see where either party was wrong.

Leafs didn't cave in and give him the big deal before it was necessary and Franson responded by elevating his game (so far, still a long way to go) to another level.

To me, that's a sign of the system working properly.

 

[Purity*]

Simplistic is the short sighted view you are taking to building a flash in the pan playoff team vs. a long term contending franchise.

It doesn't get ANY simpler than THAT.

This x1000... Keeping Franson is only going to further the notion that this management still under all insanity believes this core can accomplish something. I don't know if the last 3 years can be a more telltale sign that this team needs changes, but Nonis is incredibly short-sighted, so you truly never know with him. I could easily seeing him not wanting to trade Franson off because "but zomg playoffs!" even though this core has thoroughly shown they can't accomplish anything.

You're right, it doesn't get any simpler than that.

 

[Maple Leaf]

As long as the Leafs are in playoff contention, they have no reason to trade players for picks that ultimately weakens the team, and hurts the overall goal, making the playoffs. Every player that leaves, has their spot filled by someone else, the Leafs never loose players for nothing. Its about as simplistic as it could be.

I would love to hear what we got for Kulemin, Grabovski, and MacArthur.

Replacing them by signing other players is terrible asset management.

 

[New Liskeard]

Well then it looks like we found our difference in opinion.

Making the playoffs shouldn't be the overall goal. Winning the Stanley Cup should.

Until mgmt believes that their group of players can contend for the Cup, they should very much be willing to "weaken" the team a little that year to improve their chances in the following years.

Making the playoffs and maybe even winning a round is pointless in the big picture.

See, if we finish 8th, 1 point ahead of 9th, you would consider that a victory? Still the same team. Still very low chance of winning the cup. Next year will very likely be the same, a toss up to make the playoffs. That's good enough? For a few more years then our players get old and back to the bottom we go..

Last I checked a team has to make the playoffs first if they ever hope to win the cup.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

$4m over 5 years, otherwise trade him for a 1st/2nd+ at the deadline.

 

[New Liskeard]

Well then it looks like we found our difference in opinion.

Making the playoffs shouldn't be the overall goal. Winning the Stanley Cup should.

Until mgmt believes that their group of players can contend for the Cup, they should very much be willing to "weaken" the team a little that year to improve their chances in the following years.

Making the playoffs and maybe even winning a round is pointless in the big picture.

See, if we finish 8th, 1 point ahead of 9th, you would consider that a victory? Still the same team. Still very low chance of winning the cup. Next year will very likely be the same, a toss up to make the playoffs. That's good enough? For a few more years then our players get old and back to the bottom we go..

Yup, you should tell the shareholders that their multi million dollar company should "weaken" their team and not strive for playoff revenue if they are not cup contenders? Im sure all the other 29 NHL owners would embrace your view and not want to generate additional revenue. Absolutely hilarious.

 

[noelllll*]

Last I checked a team has to make the playoffs first if they ever hope to win the cup.

Oh my, honestly I KNEW you were going to say some ******** like that. Had it written out in quotes and everything but decided to erase to not be a dick.

Ignore my questions and the points and make a smart ass remark.

Simple minds..

 

[New Liskeard]

I would love to hear what we got for Kulemin, Grabovski, and MacArthur.

Replacing them by signing other players is terrible asset management.

Unless the Leafs have empty cap space, their cap hits were allocated to other players. Pretty straight forward stuff to comprehend. Odd coming from a poster with an avatar of an ex player who nearly got laughed out of MLSE for suggesting he should be the next GM. Poor Glen's ego still hasn't recovered yet,

 

[studebaker17]

Could Kulemin, Raymond have been traded for picks/prospects and Leafs still signed Komarov, Santorelli to replace them on the immediate roster?.

Would the Leafs organization be better off, worse or the same as far as asset management goes?

the fact they let guys walk away for cap relief is ok if they're being replaced by guys who only cost money. replacing them with guys like bolland who costs assets though is a compound mistake.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Same old story is probably a good bet. We'll be a bubble team around the deadline so we will keep him, probably miss the playoffs, then lose him for nothing. Or we will pay him 5-6 million and we will be told to be patient again.

The Maple Leafs in a nutshell

 

[Hocks95*]

Last I checked a team has to make the playoffs first if they ever hope to win the cup.

look at the bigger picture man.

 

[Dugath]

The Leafs do not loose assets for nothing. If a player leaves, that hole then gets filled by someone else. Let me guess, the Leafs let Kulemin and Raymond walk for nothing right??

So, when a player leaves as a UFA thier former spot being filled by someone else means the Leafs did not loose an asset for nothing? Does not make a lot of sense.

They could have at least traded Kulemin for a draft pick, that would have been considered an exchange of assets.