Player rising/falling after u18

[Redwingsfan]

yah JVR defiently passed Turris IMO, but guys like Esposite, Gillies, and Couture helped raise their draft stock because of their solid play at the U-18's. But we must remember there are guys that were not at the U-18's that are still playing with their junior teams, guys like Karl Alzner, Patrick Kane, Sam Gagner, and Jon Blum.

yeah sure, but JVR passing turris has nothing to do with those guys.

 

[John Agar]

Rising...falling...Canada only...

as I only saw enough of Canada...
Rising...I'd say:

Gillies - somewhat skeptical of him, but showed he had skill and a nose for the net and the situation. Not just a big guy "with potential".

Esposito - skeptical again, but as the tournament went on, he adapted and excelled. Liked what I saw. Probably more of a North American rink guy, but that's where his bread and butter will be.

Negrin - early I wasn't impressed. But as the tournament went on, he logged more and more ice time under much duress. Franchise, no. But definately a riser in the draft.

Turris - let me just say..."Turris rocks". This guy has major upside. Creative. Dynamic. Gritty. Skills. Go to. I love this guy. He is Canadian hockey. Will he rise? Maybe not, as he has been highly touted; but he showed me lots, and more and inspite of the Sweden bronze outcome, was a threat and back on d' always. He is a high 1st pick...slight rise in my opinion.

Falling:

Logan Couture: hands of stone...until proven otherwise. Always just out of the play on both ends. A bit of an anchor whoever played with him. Sorry, not just un-impressed, running scared away from him.

Sutter - sorry, I just don't see it. I saw grit, I saw awareness, but what I saw was lot's less than let's say a Colby Armstrong, who I admired as a Dub'er, but just couldn't quite see the NHL'er in him. Sutter is much less a gamer than Colby was at his age.

Cann - down early a lot. Habits/instincts...shakey. Not a go to goalie.

Post script...this team was all about the future...and wow is Canada reloading!

Doughty, Schenn, Arniel, Boychuk, Stamkos emerged as players on a Canadian "D" team due to the CHL playoffs...they are the big movers in this year and they are not even eligible for this years draft. Canada's future is very bright.

 

[petrklima85]

2 things......

1) After seeing JVR again in this tourney, I can't wait now to see him and Kane lead the US in the WJC in December. If they can somehow add EJ into the mix then they would have to be looked at as a favourite. I had previuosly predicted that Kane would lead all scorers in the 2008 WJC, but now I feel he may get a serious push from JVR.

2) I saw Gillies play for the first time in the U18 and I was impressed, he seems unrefined a bit but the talent upside in undeniable. He seems similar to Okposo, I'll ask the experts here, if that's a fair comparison.

 

[hawksfan50]

To be fair to Turris vs. JVr's performance:

JVR played 1 more game AND he also got featured PP time while Turris did not play on Canada's PP (rather Turris was used on Canada;s #1 PK unit --which sucks off energy from a player)...........

IF you analyze JVR's stats---he had 5G+7A in &GP--BUT 1 goal was a shoot-out winner over Canada--meaning that of his 11 other points in regulation EQ strength time 5 of those were PP points --- if Turris instead of Stamkos had been on Canada's PP and played 1 more game--maybe he too would have added 5 pp points ...

Turris also hit the post with a shot and also had a very good chance on a back-hand
in a scamble just outside the crease that got deflected away--with just a bit more luck he easily could have had 2 more goals to his total without any PP time...


So really I don't think the comparisons are that apparopriate given the role differences and 1 game played less by Turris differential...


Also--I do think Turris' line played a bit not in sync--perhaps becase Couture never played LW before--he is a natural centre and always played centre in Ottawa,and also I just don't think the RW Torquato played that well either...

Rather than the JVR and Turris comparisons on stas alone--I think therefore give all the above,that POSITION consideration (LW or centre) and SIZE consideration
(right now JVR is less a risk because of his size--but if Turris can add muscle weight strength in at least 2 yrs at Wisconsin--then the Turris of 2 yrs hence might be
much more effective than he is now--he needs that strength increase to impact at the NHl level---whereas that is not a concern with JVR...

 

[nanzenkills]

To be fair to Turris vs. JVr's performance:

JVR played 1 more game AND he also got featured PP time while Turris did not play on Canada's PP (rather Turris was used on Canada;s #1 PK unit --which sucks off energy from a player)...........

IF you analyze JVR's stats---he had 5G+7A in &GP--BUT 1 goal was a shoot-out winner over Canada--meaning that of his 11 other points in regulation EQ strength time 5 of those were PP points --- if Turris instead of Stamkos had been on Canada's PP and played 1 more game--maybe he too would have added 5 pp points ...

Turris also hit the post with a shot and also had a very good chance on a back-hand
in a scamble just outside the crease that got deflected away--with just a bit more luck he easily could have had 2 more goals to his total without any PP time...


So really I don't think the comparisons are that apparopriate given the role differences and 1 game played less by Turris differential...


Also--I do think Turris' line played a bit not in sync--perhaps becase Couture never played LW before--he is a natural centre and always played centre in Ottawa,and also I just don't think the RW Torquato played that well either...

Rather than the JVR and Turris comparisons on stas alone--I think therefore give all the above,that POSITION consideration (LW or centre) and SIZE consideration
(right now JVR is less a risk because of his size--but if Turris can add muscle weight strength in at least 2 yrs at Wisconsin--then the Turris of 2 yrs hence might be
much more effective than he is now--he needs that strength increase to impact at the NHl level---whereas that is not a concern with JVR...

Although stats are certainly a consideration, I don't think they are only thing people have in mind when they compare the performances of Turris and JVR. In spite of his poor production, I thought Turris played pretty well at this tournament, but he really wasn't the dominant force (on the ice, not the scoresheet) that JVR was throughout.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

To be fair to Turris vs. JVr's performance:

JVR played 1 more game AND he also got featured PP time while Turris did not play on Canada's PP (rather Turris was used on Canada;s #1 PK unit --which sucks off energy from a player)...........

IF you analyze JVR's stats---he had 5G+7A in &GP--BUT 1 goal was a shoot-out winner over Canada--meaning that of his 11 other points in regulation EQ strength time 5 of those were PP points --- if Turris instead of Stamkos had been on Canada's PP and played 1 more game--maybe he too would have added 5 pp points ...

Turris also hit the post with a shot and also had a very good chance on a back-hand
in a scamble just outside the crease that got deflected away--with just a bit more luck he easily could have had 2 more goals to his total without any PP time...


So really I don't think the comparisons are that apparopriate given the role differences and 1 game played less by Turris differential...


Also--I do think Turris' line played a bit not in sync--perhaps becase Couture never played LW before--he is a natural centre and always played centre in Ottawa,and also I just don't think the RW Torquato played that well either...

Rather than the JVR and Turris comparisons on stas alone--I think therefore give all the above,that POSITION consideration (LW or centre) and SIZE consideration
(right now JVR is less a risk because of his size--but if Turris can add muscle weight strength in at least 2 yrs at Wisconsin--then the Turris of 2 yrs hence might be
much more effective than he is now--he needs that strength increase to impact at the NHl level---whereas that is not a concern with JVR...

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.....

 

[orangeandblack]

To be fair to Turris vs. JVr's performance:

JVR played 1 more game AND he also got featured PP time while Turris did not play on Canada's PP (rather Turris was used on Canada;s #1 PK unit --which sucks off energy from a player)...........

IF you analyze JVR's stats---he had 5G+7A in &GP--BUT 1 goal was a shoot-out winner over Canada--meaning that of his 11 other points in regulation EQ strength time 5 of those were PP points --- if Turris instead of Stamkos had been on Canada's PP and played 1 more game--maybe he too would have added 5 pp points ...

Turris also hit the post with a shot and also had a very good chance on a back-hand
in a scamble just outside the crease that got deflected away--with just a bit more luck he easily could have had 2 more goals to his total without any PP time...


So really I don't think the comparisons are that apparopriate given the role differences and 1 game played less by Turris differential...


Also--I do think Turris' line played a bit not in sync--perhaps becase Couture never played LW before--he is a natural centre and always played centre in Ottawa,and also I just don't think the RW Torquato played that well either...

Rather than the JVR and Turris comparisons on stas alone--I think therefore give all the above,that POSITION consideration (LW or centre) and SIZE consideration
(right now JVR is less a risk because of his size--but if Turris can add muscle weight strength in at least 2 yrs at Wisconsin--then the Turris of 2 yrs hence might be
much more effective than he is now--he needs that strength increase to impact at the NHl level---whereas that is not a concern with JVR...

why are you trying to nit pick through van reimsdyks stats? bottom line, he was voted the top forward at the tournament, and that wasnt just based on stats. the consensus among onlookers was jvr was a man amongst boys out there. in a short tournament if canada really felt they needed turris on the power play, he would have been out there. they didnt, so he wasnt, they thought stamkos was better there, and i cant say i dont disagree with them.


jvr hit the post too, a few times, whats your point? this whole argument is ridiculous. jvr was voted best forward, turris wasnt, and no one should have to make excuses for either one. jvr didnt play with schroeder most of the year either. i dont know who will be drafted higher, but your argument and excuses are very lame.

 

[An Ape called Yoko]

Obviously the biggest riser has to be Hjalmarsson--that was some eye-opening skill AND determination +a "killer instinct" to pile it on when he was in the zone ---big upside there....To be that dangerous and dominant for so many shifts in that final look scouts would have at him--that was elevating his game to the max..so he just has to rise bigtime...as the TSN commentators said---Hjalmarsson is now the "wildcard" of the draft.

Can´t say im surprised. Hjalmarsson has been dominating pretty much the whole season in J20 SuperElit, and especially after christmas he has been on fire. I haven´t been posting too much on the hfboards this season, otherwise i would have given comments earlier about this nice prospect.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

why are you trying to nit pick through van reimsdyks stats? bottom line, he was voted the top forward at the tournament, and that wasnt just based on stats. the consensus among onlookers was jvr was a man amongst boys out there. in a short tournament if canada really felt they needed turris on the power play, he would have been out there. they didnt, so he wasnt, they thought stamkos was better there, and i cant say i dont disagree with them.


jvr hit the post too, a few times, whats your point? this whole argument is ridiculous. jvr was voted best forward, turris wasnt, and no one should have to make excuses for either one. jvr didnt play with schroeder most of the year either. i dont know who will be drafted higher, but your argument and excuses are very lame.

Agreed. It's just a bunch of cop-out ********. But once Hawksfan has his favorite, he defends him over ANYTHING.

Seriously, JVR was supposedly incredible at this tourney. He most likely solidified himself as a top 3 pick.

 

[toastman344*]

Yes I think JVR is Top 3...and he might even go Top 2...Hell he could even go first overall...it wouldn't be all that outlandish...stranger things have happened before...

Kane...for all his tremendous offensive abilities...is still pretty small by NHL standards....

Cherry, for his part, is handicapped by the lack of a Russian-NHL transfer agreement ( not a huge handicap, to be sure, but still a headache nonetheless ) plus he didn't outshine JVR at the U18's, and he did seem to disappear at times in the U20's, and even in the U18 game vs. Canada ...admittedly, he also scored some really clutch goals ...

Turris, to put it bluntly, is too damn skinny ...

That only leaves Vorachek...( i suppose Alzner might also be considered top 5 , but surely not much higher than 5th ...) but is Varachek really a better pick than JVR ?

***
More and More, JVR is looking like the safest, the surest and perhaps even the smartest pick , of the top 5 ...

He's not only Top 3 IMO...HE'S TOP 3 WITH A BULLET !!!

CHEERS ET AL