Gauthier will never be Bergeron, or even close to him for that matter. PB was a jack of all trades in junior, he had a well rounded offensive package and sound skating.Bergeron has had a good career and scored 73 points in 70 games in his draft year.
Gauthier scored 60 points in 62 games his draft year.
PPG rate is not that much different. 1.04 versus 0.97
We don't know what Bergeron would have done if he stayed in junior, so we can't compare.
Gauthier will never be Bergeron, or even close to him for that matter. PB was a jack of all trades in junior, he had a well rounded offensive package and sound skating.
Absolutely hated the Gauthier pick when it happened; going into the draft he was the only player in the Leafs' range that I did not want.
But you have to make due with what you have. Gauthier is most likely going to be an NHL'er, but I think the only question at this point is whether he becomes a reliable 3rd liner, or a 4th line specialist.
He's a total Steckel/McClement hybrid.
PPG in the Q, on the biggest powerhouse team in the league, as a 3rd year player is not perfectly fine. His PPG has not improved since he was drafted.Gauthier is a real good skater, and has elite defensive skill. His IQ is through the roof. He hovers at PPG in junior, which is perfectly fine.
I really don't get why people rag on the guy. It makes no sense. Sorry he isn't scoring 130 points like 2012 6th Round Pick, Conor Garland, or 102 like undrafted 20 year old, Danick Martel.
The Leafs used that logic on Gauthier and likely used it with Biggs. They will likely have used two first round picks (+ with the Biggs trade) to get one 4th liner and one borderline AHLer.
Does that sound like a smart way to draft a team?
Nylander ranked 11th in HF prospect rankings.
Conversely, show me a list of well established players who have 2 or more seasons in the CHL just at or slightly below PPG. There are very few that go on to be more than dime a dozen players.To you, maybe.
He's a very good skater for a big player. Scouts rave about is IQ.
You don't need to score buckets of points in junior to have an effective offensive skillset. Bergeron was only PPG in the QMJHL too.
There are TONS, and TONS of players who score like crazy in juniors and never make it.
Why?
They don't have the IQ that Gauthier has.
They don't have the awareness that Gauthier has.
They don't have half of the defensive game Gauthier has. Maybe not even 1/4.
I didn't even mention how good Gauthier is in the faceoff dot.
People HATE this guy because he isn't scoring 1.5 points a game. It's the oddest thing.
Am I supposed to be impressed by Colborne putting up 28 and 36 point (pro-rated to 82 games) seasons since we traded him? (3 points in 11 games in these playoffs too)He is way bigger without the offensive game which takes longer in big players (see Colbourne.)
Not a huge fan of the Gauthier pick, but I think it's a bit unfair to assume he'll be a Steckle level player. Steckle is awful at every aspect of the game other than faceoffs. Let's just wait and see how he turns out
Tyler Johnson went undrafted. Palat went un-selected for two years and then was picked in the 7th round. You can absolutely let these guys "cook" in the AHL.
Kucherov(2nd round) however did not spend much time "cooking". He only spent 17 games in the AHL and was in the NHL at 20 years old.
There is a big difference between these 2 situations. You can absolutely let your long-shot prospects spend lots of time in the AHL but your top prospects like a guy like Nylander or Kucherov you dont leave down in the minors for an extenden period of time.
Yeah I've been trying to point that out. Steckel and McClement both were awful at pretty much everything except for faceoffs and PK ability. Gauthier looks like he can actually be very good defensively 5-on-5 as well.
I just don't see much of a chance that he turns into one of those two, yet they are the ones most often mentioned.
PPG in the Q, on the biggest powerhouse team in the league, as a 3rd year player is not perfectly fine. His PPG has not improved since he was drafted.
A real good skater? IQ through the roof? Nah.
He has efficient top end speed because he's huge and has a massive stride. Skating is multi-faceted; agility, top-end speed, acceleration. He is respectable in 1 of the 3 facets listed. Draisaitl won the Oilers' skating competition with Hall, Nuge, etc, etc. on the team. It's a linear drill that has little significance.
His HIQ is good in seeing the play without the puck. He can predict movement and intercept lanes, but his awareness in the offensive sense is average. He can find open linemates but he leaves a lot to be desired.
Won't argue about his defensive game, because it's really impressive. Outside of that, he's very underwhelming.
Conversely, show me a list of well established players who have 2 or more seasons in the CHL just at or slightly below PPG. There are very few that go on to be more than dime a dozen players.
Also, you're making it sound like he's Zezel in the dot. He's pretty good, but as someone else pointed out, he's only around 50 some percent...
I've been saying for a while that a mix of Handzus/Kelly type of forward is a solid expectation for Gauthier and his future role/production.
Not a huge fan of the Gauthier pick, but I think it's a bit unfair to assume he'll be a Steckle level player. Steckle is awful at every aspect of the game other than faceoffs. Let's just wait and see how he turns out
HF rankings are a joke anyhow.
The Leafs used that logic on Gauthier and likely used it with Biggs. They will likely have used two first round picks (+ with the Biggs trade) to get one 4th liner and one borderline AHLer.
Does that sound like a smart way to draft a team?
Yeah I've been trying to point that out. Steckel and McClement both were awful at pretty much everything except for faceoffs and PK ability. Gauthier looks like he can actually be very good defensively 5-on-5 as well.
I just don't see much of a chance that he turns into one of those two, yet they are the ones most often mentioned.
Well, McClement was over a PPG as a 19 year old ...
Yeah, I mostly meant that McClement as an NHL player never had the skill set to be effective defensively. Gauthier has that skillset already. He might never produce better than McClement did, but we can be rather sure he'll be a good shot suppressor.
This all seems eerily similar to Kenny Ryan being called a defensive monster a few seasons back as Ryan put up mediocre offensive stats on a very good OHL team.
While I'm sure there are some posters who just delight in the probability of Gauthier flaming out as a pro prospect, there are some of us who don't delight in it but are realistic about what we're looking at. I'd love nothing more than to be completely wrong about Gauthier. I say put your hopes on better Leafs' prospects.