Player Discussion: Jake Virtanen | XV

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mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,247
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Which forwards on the Canucks have worse hockey IQ than Virtanen.

My Canuck forwards hockey IQ ranking

Hank
Dank / Burr / Hansen / Kesler
Bonino / Eriksson / Higgins / MayRay / Prust / Richardson / Vrbata
Bo / Bae / Granlund
McCann / Cracknell / Matthias / Sutter
Vey / Dorsett / Booth
Virtanen / Kassian
Etem

So I guess according to my ratings, Etem has a worse hockey IQ than Jake.

What's your thoughts Pip?
 

B-rock

Registered User
Jun 29, 2003
2,375
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Vancouver
Virtanen had a good draft year and hasn't shown anything since. It's pretty telling when a high pick can't even hit PPG in his draft+1 season.

Any successful power forwards are at least successful in junior. Virtanen, based on his draft position did not have success in junior.

I could understand the optimism by some if he consistently demonstrated himself to be hard working and tenacious a la Hansen. But he's not- he floats around expecting things to happen for him. He needs to get his nose dirty and I don't mean by cheap shotting players on the opposing team when they aren't expecting it. Even this would be ok if he were doing anything else to justify it - but he doesn't.

Sure he's shown a flash here and there but pretty much every NHLer can show those from time to time. I wish that I was optimistic about Jake, but it's exceedingly more difficult to be so every day.
 

vanuck

Now with 100% less Benning!
Dec 28, 2009
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He also had Larkin at 21, Pastrnak at 25 and Fabbri at 28.

This thread is hilarious, declaring Virtanen a bust this early is just so ridiculous. There are so many examples of players, especially power forwards taking longer to develop. Virtanen has shown that he's able to play well in the NHL where he was the best player in some of the games. He may very well bust, but everybody here should know better that things change all the time in the NHL. Plenty of players have great starts to their careers and then fizzle out and vice versus. For crying out loud, look at Columbus last year and now this year.

Can you name a few of these power forward types who took longer to develop, and the quality of forward they turned out into?
 

canucksfan

Registered User
Mar 16, 2002
44,072
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British Columbia
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To the people that are mentioning players that took a bit to start producing good point totals. Have to realize those players produced st the AHL level or produced at a decent rate in the NHL level before breaking out. No one sucked like Jake has at the AHL level and then broke out. Still time left but if he can't turn it around in the AHL he's almost for sure done.
 

Kale Hulls

Registered User
May 15, 2013
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I think his decision making is better than its been because he showed alot more in his first games than he did in his last. This AHL stint has got me very worried though.
 

bbud

Registered User
Sep 10, 2008
10,886
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I think his decision making is better than its been because he showed alot more in his first games than he did in his last. This AHL stint has got me very worried though.

His NHL coach left him needing to be retrained give him time kids young certainly has the skills lets hope Green teaches the game he needs to play to succeed and that wont be overnight.
 

Roy Baby*

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
792
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Phoenix,AZ
My Canuck forwards hockey IQ ranking

Hank
Dank / Burr / Hansen / Kesler
Bonino / Eriksson / Higgins / MayRay / Prust / Richardson / Vrbata
Bo / Bae / Granlund
McCann / Cracknell / Matthias / Sutter
Vey / Dorsett / Booth
Virtanen / Kassian
Etem

So I guess according to my ratings, Etem has a worse hockey IQ than Jake.

What's your thoughts Pip?

Wow. That's dead accurate. 100% agree.
 

Orca Smash

Registered User
Feb 9, 2012
13,883
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I think his decision making is better than its been because he showed alot more in his first games than he did in his last. This AHL stint has got me very worried though.

Me as well, I have not said a bad word about him over the years and have in fact defended him, but no more. At this time we have had so few prospects turn out when fans complain about them that its almost time i start admitting defeat unless they show progress quickly after struggling. So far virtanen has struggled every step of the way, i was expecting semi decent ahl production and we have not even seen that.
 

Orca Smash

Registered User
Feb 9, 2012
13,883
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Andrew Ladd
David Backes
Max Pacioretty

A couple more that are recent and obvious.

I am sure someone can dig into these even more if they have time on their hands but andrew ladd for instance had 19 points in 25 ahl games. Virtanen has 7 in 19. I hope he proves me wrong, but i dont see the similarities and i had held out hope for awhile.
 

Pip

Registered User
Feb 2, 2012
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I am sure someone can dig into these even more if they have time on their hands but andrew ladd for instance had 19 points in 25 ahl games. Virtanen has 7 in 19. I hope he proves me wrong, but i dont see the similarities and i had held out hope for awhile.

29 in 37 for Pacioretty in his first year.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,773
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Virtanen is kind of a weird player. His upside was that of a goal scoring power forward. Hockey IQ, board play, and defense wasn't his strength at the time of the draft. He basically hasn't been the same goal scorer after his shoulder surgery. But in his rookie NHL season, he was a strong possession player and defensive player, two things he wasn't suppose to be good at. This season, he seemed to have injured his shoulder and his hitting game was gone and his advanced stats were no where near what it was in his rookie season. So what do we have in Virtanen? I really don't know. I do think that playing in the AHL is good for Virtanen. He probably does need to be humbled and work on what he needs to do to be successful.
 

Bad Goalie

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Jan 2, 2014
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I am sure someone can dig into these even more if they have time on their hands but andrew ladd for instance had 19 points in 25 ahl games. Virtanen has 7 in 19. I hope he proves me wrong, but i dont see the similarities and i had held out hope for awhile.

Technically, if you add his 10 games in the 2015 AHL playoffs and 2 GP last season to the 19 this year, he totals 8 points in 31 AHL GP. He has looked as clueless in every one of them.

I have stated repeatedly that Jake's development course was not the right one. He should have done Jrs last season and the AHL this year and had no sniff of the NHL yet other than preseason camps. If his greatness was showing, he should've have had the fan base drooling by now for his addition to the team next year along with the arrival of Boeser and his team mate in Utica, McCann. However, that's a whole other discussion.

His demotion this season was warranted, but the tool box hasn't revealed much in Utica. His speed is only seen on an occasional shift. His shot only once or twice a game and from too far out. He does not hit like the dump truck mentioned a few posts back. His hitting has barely been what you would call hitting. It's more bump and run. He coasts all over the place and hangs out on the periphery of all the action. It's like he thinks the puck will be acquired by others and then delivered to him.

He has to cover the points, but approaches the point man like he's skating on mica thick ice and it will break if he pushes too hard and thus never gets to the point and never blocks the shot. Even his attempts at interfering with passes in the neutral zone are ill completed half assed reaching dangles with his stick on a coasting half circle somewhat in the direction the pass might go. He never touches the puck in these efforts. I don't think he has broken up or intercepted a single pass.

He does muck along the half boards in his own end. I wouldn't strongly define it as battling, but he holds his own there. At least he doesn't blind backhand the puck into the field of play to be intercepted and become scoring chances like Gaunce used to do and Grenier still does several times a game.

Speaking of Grenier, I do so wish I could report having seen this high NHL level hockey IQ I'm reading about here this morning, but I have seen little evidence of it from Jake's play. Right now he is rivaling Grenier for the bottom of the list of Utica players and that's not good. I mean that's really not good. It's the #1 reason a player with all the natural tools of an NHL player remains mired in the AHL.

I will say that the so called feeling of entitlement has not been evident here. I think what many are calling his lack of humility is his lack of IQ. He's been a hockey player all his life, not a top notch academic. He isn't skilled in public speaking and doesn't understand the concept of giving the right answer and keeping what you really think to yourself. He's a kid who wants to be an NHL player and I don't really think he knows just how that will happen. He's stated here that he has lots to learn. I firmly agree. I, for one, hope it works out for him.

As a huge fan of a minor league team, I wish every one of these kid's achieves their dream, but also realize most of them won't and the reasons are as numerable as the number who fail. I hope Jake figures it out, but it won't happen overnight. This isn't going to be a 30-day refresher course and then a retake of the exam. I think he is the kind of player who can be lost due to mismanagement. BO was the type who could fight through the brasses BS. Jake wasn't. What it will take for him to catch up will be a tough climb. I will continue to factually describe his progress or lack of it, but realize I'm in his corner, even if it at times it may not sound it.
 
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Ryp37

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
7,525
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Technically, if you add his 10 games in the 2015 AHL playoffs and 2 GP last season to the 19 this year, he totals 8 points in 31 AHL GP. He has looked as clueless in every one of them.

I have stated repeatedly that Jake's development course was not the right one. He should have done Jrs last season and the AHL this year and had no sniff of the NHL yet other than preseason camps. If his greatness was showing, he should've have had the fan base drooling by now for his addition to the team next year along with the arrival of Boeser and his team mate in Utica, McCann. However, that's a whole other discussion.

His demotion this season was warranted, but the tool box hasn't revealed much in Utica. His speed is only seen on an occasional shift. His shot only once or twice a game and from too far out. He does not hit like the dump truck mentioned a few posts back. His hitting has barely been what you would call hitting. It's more bump and run. He coasts all over the place and hangs out on the periphery of all the action. It's like he thinks the puck will be acquired by others and then delivered to him.

He has to cover the points, but approaches the point man like he's skating on mica thick ice and it will break if he pushes too hard and thus never gets to the point and never blocks the shot. Even his attempts at interfering with passes in the neutral zone are ill completed half assed reaching dangles with his stick on a coasting half circle somewhat in the direction the pass might go. He never touches the puck in these efforts. I don't think he has broken up or intercepted a single pass.

He does muck along the half boards in his own end. I wouldn't strongly define it as battling, but he holds his own there. At least he doesn't blind backhand the puck into the field of play to be intercepted and become scoring chances like Gaunce used to do and Grenier still does several times a game.

Speaking of Grenier, I do so wish I could report having seen this high NHL level hockey IQ I'm reading about here this morning, but I have seen little evidence of it from Jake's play. Right now he is rivaling Grenier for the bottom of the list of Utica players and that's not good. I mean that's really not good. It's the #1 reason a player with all the natural tools of an NHL player remains mired in the AHL.

I will say that the so called feeling of entitlement has not been evident here. I think what many are calling his lack of humility is his lack of IQ. He's been a hockey player all his life, not a top notch academic. He isn't skilled in public speaking and doesn't understand the concept of giving the right answer and keeping what you really think to yourself. He's a kid who wants to be an NHL player and I don't really think he knows just how that will happen. He's stated here that he has lots to learn. I firmly agree. I, for one, hope it works out for him.

As a huge fan of a minor league team, I wish every one of these kid's achieves their dream, but also realize most of them won't and the reasons are as numerable as the number who fail. I hope Jake figures it out, but it won't happen overnight. This isn't going to be a 30-day refresher course and then a retake of the exam. I think he is the kind of player who can be lost due to mismanagement. BO was the type who could fight through the brasses BS. Jake wasn't. What it will take for him to catch up will be a tough climb. I will continue to factually describe his progress or lack of it, but realize I'm in his corner, even if it at times it may not sound it.

You're the man BG, thanks for all the detailed updates.

Really gotta wonder how much damage rushing him into the NHL did.
 

m9

m9
Sponsor
Jan 23, 2010
25,107
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Thanks fir that report from Utica. Unfortunately, it sounds like what we saw here earlier this season.
 

ghostingtaro

Registered User
Nov 2, 2013
1,515
716
Bust written all over this.

Blame it on any other excuse in the book.

The fact that he can't even score goals like he was touted or the fact that he has no work ethic was trouble from the beginning.
 

BenningHurtsMySoul

Unfair Huggy Bear
Mar 18, 2008
25,634
11,935
Port Coquitlam, BC
He was a bad pick from the start.

You don't use a top pick on a PPG player in junior with bad shoulders, 45 goals or not. Most of those goals were off the rush anyways, Jake can't even carry the puck far enough to drive the net on a regular basis against defencemen that aren't 160lbs.

Add the rumours of entitlement and being disliked among his peers, and you got yourself a problem.

He was a gamble at 6 that they made because he was from BC...if he was Jokka Virtanen from Espoo, Finland there's no way they would have taken him. It would have been Ritchie and we wouldn't be quite as pissed right now.
 

CherryToke

Registered User
Oct 18, 2008
26,735
8,218
Coquitlam
What has Ritchie done that is so good? Produce in the AHL?

He has identical NHL numbers as Virtanen and he's fat and slow.

Ritchie 17 points in 69 games.
Virtanen 14 points in 65 games.
 
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