Player Discussion: Jake Virtanen | XII (Mod warning post #722)

[AwesomeInTheory]

Maybe not, but I don't think what he does off the ice is really an issue. It's his hockey IQ and hockey smarts that is an issue, and work ethic, or whatever. I just think he may not be good enough - that's the bottom line.

If you're distracted, your work ethic is going to suffer.

I do think he's in his way to joining Taylor Pyatt, Kyle Beach, Brad Isbister et al. On the island of Misfit Toys.

Was hoping maybe he wasn't getting a fair shake with the Hitmen in his last season on the team but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Beansy*]

If you're distracted, your work ethic is going to suffer.

I do think he's in his way to joining Taylor Pyatt, Kyle Beach, Brad Isbister et al. On the island of Misfit Toys.

Was hoping maybe he wasn't getting a fair shake with the Hitmen in his last season on the team but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Wasn't he coming off some major injury that year with Calgary? Did he not put up 45 goals the year before? Is he not 19 years old now?

He needs to be in the AHL, but this continued suggestion that he is a bust is ludicrous.

 

[ghostingtaro]

Jack Skille 2.0.

 

[RandV]

Wasn't he coming off some major injury that year with Calgary? Did he not put up 45 goals the year before? Is he not 19 years old now?

He needs to be in the AHL, but this continued suggestion that he is a bust is ludicrous.

A summer injury is much less a factor in the CHL. It's a junior league, you should score more simply by virtue of being a year older. You're probably hinking of guys like Shinkaruk and Cassels who had injuries hindering them their first year going into the AHL, but in this case you're moving up into a much harder men's league.

Regardless of what you think of Virtanen now his draft+1 year was a disappointment. 45 goals as a 17-18 year old to 21 goals as an 18-19 year old is a big downswing. Also looked completely out of place for Canada at the WJC that year, not a good season for a 6th overall pick.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Wasn't he coming off some major injury that year with Calgary? Did he not put up 45 goals the year before? Is he not 19 years old now?

Yeah, he was, but he was still stuck on the 2nd line despite being an overager. The rationale was that maybe he was just recovering still and was getting lighter minutes, but he never really shifted upwards on the depth chart, which is concerning draft+ years.

He needs to be in the AHL, but this continued suggestion that he is a bust is ludicrous.

There is a big difference between saying he is tracking in a certain direction vs. saying he's a bust and I apologise if I wasn't being more clear on what I meant by that. The jury is still out on Virtanen right now. But when you're looking at players drafted around him and how they're doing, they're either in the AHL developing or are being contributors to the main club.

Virtanen isn't doing either, and if Benning is going to continue to try and force him as an NHL player, he is going to end up becoming a bust.

 

[Seatoo]

Virtanen is on his way to busting pretty damn quick. However it was still a ****** pick no matter which way you look at it

 

[me2]

Wasn't he coming off some major injury that year with Calgary? Did he not put up 45 goals the year before? Is he not 19 years old now?

He needs to be in the AHL, but this continued suggestion that he is a bust is ludicrous.

he's 20.

 

[clunk]

Wasn't he coming off some major injury that year with Calgary? Did he not put up 45 goals the year before? Is he not 19 years old now?

He needs to be in the AHL, but this continued suggestion that he is a bust is ludicrous.

You sure it isn't 'Ludacris'?

 

[B-rock]

Ray Ferraro made a great point while discussing Virtanen on the radio this week.

He said every time virtanen gets the puck he wants to get rid of it.
-If he gets the puck in the offensive zone he just shoots
- If he gets the puck in the defensive zone he passes as quick as possible when he has tons of room to carry it.

Then he says any player that is that nervous with the puck shouldn't be playing in the NHL.

Ray hit the nail on the head. This is what's most noticeable with Virtanen. He's so hesitant, and never looks like he wants the puck. He plays scared to make a mistake.
He's an enigma to me really, because he has a wicked temper on the ice and at times seems like he wants to literally kill guys. But that only very rarely translates into wanting to make a difference on the score sheet.

He needs to be sent down to the AHL yesterday. Hell, he should really never have been playing in the NHL to begin with. His last AHL playoff stint he managed a grand total of 1 assist in 10 games. Not at all the kind of results you want from a top 6 pick. Make the kid earn his time. The preferential treatment he is getting is crazy, and it is doing nothing to help him.

 

[David71]

send him to utica already. travis green will probably whip him into the player that he knows hes capable of being. 6th pick looking like a bust..

 

[me2]

Ray hit the nail on the head. This is what's most noticeable with Virtanen. He's so hesitant, and never looks like he wants the puck. He plays scared to make a mistake.
He's an enigma to me really, because he has a wicked temper on the ice and at times seems like he wants to literally kill guys. But that only very rarely translates into wanting to make a difference on the score sheet.

He needs to be sent down to the AHL yesterday. Hell, he should really never have been playing in the NHL to begin with. His last AHL playoff stint he managed a grand total of 1 assist in 10 games. Not at all the kind of results you want from a top 6 pick. Make the kid earn his time. The preferential treatment he is getting is crazy, and it is doing nothing to help him.

1 in 12 games at AHL level, the assist was of a rebound.

 

[F A N]

Unless he's become Kassian overnight, I still think he's playing injured. He's barely hitting anyone and certainly hasn't thrown any big hits that I can remember. He can be hesitant with the puck and completely ineffective offensively, but there's zero reason why he's not even looking to deliver a big hit. It's like his passion for hitting is completely gone.

 

[Zombotron]

FWIW, I seem to recall that the hit he took in Game One crunched his shoulder blade (or 6th/7th rib, under the shoulder blade) over the dasher. He was clutching that region on the bench immediately after the fact.

 

[yvrtojfk]

He's been a complete let down this preseason and the first few games of the season. Not sure exactly what he needs but AHL seems like the best course of action.

 

[mathonwy]

What I'm most aftraid of is that no body in this organization is teaching him anything...

Ya know... that's on Jake... not the organization.

For our collective sake, I hope to god that Jake isn't in some kind of self-imposed locker room exile BS.

Maybe we should put him with Sutter and Granlund. Our most productive line I know but if we're not going to send him to Utica AND he's not injured then getting Jake going should be priority number one for us... more important than winning games.

Both Sutter and Granlund are new to the team as well, both aren't new to the NHL, Granlund had a pretty tough time in Calgary and Sutter seems like a pretty easy going easy to talk to type of guy.

If it's a psychological problem with Jake then I think this is the right move.

 

[Shareefruck]

I'd like to see

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen
Baertschi - Horvat - Eriksson
Granlund - Sutter - Virtanen
Burrows - Gaunce - Zalewski

Edler - Tanev
Hutton - Gudbranson
Sbisa - Larsen

Miller
Markstrom

 

[Love]

The biggest problem with him is he has zero offensive confidence. He had the ability to score goals but his mentality is so far from that of an offensive player that he needs a complete psychological change in how he approaches the game. Right now he thinks, "Don't **** up... I hope the puck doesn't end up on my stick." When he should be thinking "I want the puck because I have a ****ing laser and I'm dying to use it."

 

[MS]

The biggest problem with him is he has zero offensive confidence. He had the ability to score goals but his mentality is so far from that of an offensive player that he needs a complete psychological change in how he approaches the game. Right now he thinks, "Don't **** up... I hope the puck doesn't end up on my stick." When he should be thinking "I want the puck because I have a ****ing laser and I'm dying to use it."

It's just textbook brutal handling of a young player.

His 14-15 season was a bit of a write-off because of the shoulder thing, and he needed to spend last year in the WHL scoring 50 goals and getting some offensive verve back. Instead he spends the year as an overwhelmed 4th line grinder just trying not to screw up, and his confidence is further eroded.

The guy looks shattered mentally and physically right now. I have no idea what the organization thinks they're accomplishing with him.

 

[mathonwy]

I'd like to see

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen
Baertschi - Horvat - Eriksson
Granlund - Sutter - Virtanen
Burrows - Gaunce - Zalewski

Edler - Tanev
Hutton - Gudbranson
Sbisa - Larsen

Miller
Markstrom

Yeah.. I like this line up.

 

[BDG123]

Give Him One More Shot

Im gonna get ripped for this. But give him 9 games with the Sedins, give him a chance to show what he can do. If he doesn't preform well, drop him to Utica.

Reasoning: I think confidence is under looked in Hockey, look at Stetcher in the preseason. A lot of it was due to his success in North Dakota.

 

[absolute garbage]

It's just textbook brutal handling of a young player.

His 14-15 season was a bit of a write-off because of the shoulder thing, and he needed to spend last year in the WHL scoring 50 goals and getting some offensive verve back. Instead he spends the year as an overwhelmed 4th line grinder just trying not to screw up, and his confidence is further eroded.

The guy looks shattered mentally and physically right now. I have no idea what the organization thinks they're accomplishing with him.

I've watched few of the Florida games and the exact same thing is going on with McCann. Just completely different player from year ago. It's like last season smacked all the confidence and swagger out of them. Just going through the motions, there's none of that joy and challenging in their game anymore. Not winning, not contributing, you lose yourself and forget you have the ability and talent to play at this level and do impactful things.

But hey, "no shortcuts".

 

[PM]

Looks like we might have been too optimistic with the Raffi Torres floor projection. It might be his absolute ceiling unless he suddenly develops hockey IQ.

 

[MS]

I've watched few of the Florida games and the exact same thing is going on with McCann. Just completely different player from year ago. It's like last season smacked all the confidence and swagger out of them. Just going through the motions, there's none of that joy and challenging in their game anymore. Not winning, not contributing, you lose yourself and forget you have the ability and talent to play at this level and do impactful things.

But hey, "no shortcuts".

Yup.

Just destroyed the confidence of both guys. I don't think I've ever seen two young players who were so important to their team handled so poorly. We basically went Full Edmonton on them. And I don't even think the Coilers ever rushed an unready player so badly.

Confidence is probably the *most important* thing for young offensive players and has to be preserved and nurtured at all costs. Hopefully both players find their games again eventually and aren't completely ruined. What we did with them last season was unforgivable. And incompetent.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

It's the coach that's mostly to blame. Willie's blood pressure is probably 220/160 right now and he knows he's on an extremely short leash himself, as many prognosticators have predicted that he'd be the first coach canned.

This team is being coached for zero margin of error defensively (which they won't succeed in, Ferraro made some good points around this) and so the young players are having a tougher time, at least to start off with.

Despite being 4-1-1 the Canucks haven't looked good, only in spurts when playing from behind. To be fair, the Sedins haven't looked good either.

I don't expect Jake to show much growth unless he has some room to make mistakes too.

It's why players like him and Horvat looked best down the stretch last season, when the pressure of playing mistake-free hockey wasn't a big deal since the team was losing most nights anyway.

I'd send him to the AHL for tutelage under Green, as playing with the big club isn't helping him right now.

 

[VanJack]

It's the coach that's mostly to blame. Willie's blood pressure is probably 220/160 right now and he knows he's on an extremely short leash himself, as many prognosticators have predicted that he'd be the first coach canned.

This team is being coached for zero margin of error defensively (which they won't succeed in, Ferraro made some good points around this) and so the young players are having a tougher time, at least to start off with.

Despite being 4-1-1 the Canucks haven't looked good, only in spurts when playing from behind. To be fair, the Sedins haven't looked good either.

I don't expect Jake to show much growth unless he has some room to make mistakes too.

It's why players like him and Horvat looked best down the stretch last season, when the pressure of playing mistake-free hockey wasn't a big deal since the team was losing most nights anyway.

I'd send him to the AHL for tutelage under Green, as playing with the big club isn't helping him right now.

Yep...Virtanen and McCann are reasons I'm so fearful about guys like Boeser and Stecher....can we please drop-kick this doofus and get a real coach in here who can develop young player?