Pre-Game Talk: Play-In Round: Vancouver Canucks vs. Minnesota Wild - Game 1 - Aug 2 - 7:30PM PST

[Fedz]

Really? How did he get so unpopular?

Have you been inside a dressing room of a team preparing for a playoff run?

I mean the guy was a first rounder so the guys who earn it already are jaded watching him get opportunity after opportunity. He's reported out of shape to camp multiple times, doesn't buy in, etc, etc.

It's painfully clear on the OUTSIDE looking in that he doesn't put the logo before the name on the back. His teammates to the right or left ahead of him....I can only imagine how painfully clear it is INSIDE the dressing room.

At this time of the year, that shit matters man. FWIW, I'm not even suggesting to not play Virtanen, but we can't pretend for a second to know what the mood in the room surrounding Virtanen is other than some of the quotes guys have said. Nobody has thrown him under the bus but nobody has thrown him a bone either.

 

[Fedz]

While all the guys are making personal sacrifices (off the ice) to be ready to play, was Jake doing the same? Did Jake come to camp ready to play?

Right? Bo Horvat is in the bubble as his wife is raising his newborn baby.

Meanwhile, Jake is out partying in downtown Vancouver while reporting to camp out of shape.

There is NO chance that doesn't piss guys off. He's a 5 year pro now...80+% of guys who make the NHL don't even get a 5 year career.

 

[RussianRacket]

Load management is a thing especially in intense playoff hockey. As others have said, PK is physically taxing. I don't think it is worth it to have Miller and Boeser and Pettersson expend their energy killing penalties when you are counting on those guys scoring goals. There are plenty of other bodies that do it more than well enough.

But you're right about Virtanen. I wonder to what extent the leadership group of players like Edler, Horvat, Tanev, etc went to Green and told him its BS that this kid is out having a good time while everyone else is making sacrifices.

 

[RussianRacket]

Also I should clarify that yes I am aware the Canucks PK is league average but I don't think the potential improvement is worth gassing the players you're relying on winning you games offensively.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

All I wanna say is
I don’t mind Matt Dumba scores some goals

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Have you been inside a dressing room of a team preparing for a playoff run?

I mean the guy was a first rounder so the guys who earn it already are jaded watching him get opportunity after opportunity. He's reported out of shape to camp multiple times, doesn't buy in, etc, etc.

It's painfully clear on the OUTSIDE looking in that he doesn't put the logo before the name on the back. His teammates to the right or left ahead of him....I can only imagine how painfully clear it is INSIDE the dressing room.

At this time of the year, that shit matters man. FWIW, I'm not even suggesting to not play Virtanen, but we can't pretend for a second to know what the mood in the room surrounding Virtanen is other than some of the quotes guys have said. Nobody has thrown him under the bus but nobody has thrown him a bone either.

This sums up the Virtanen situation to a T. Well said. I want him to succeed and I want him to play, but I think it’s pretty clear he’s upset people in the organization with some of his behaviour.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

You'd think with all the veteran leadership this team's shelled out for over the last 5 years this kind of thing wouldn't be coming up...

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

Elias better play 20+ minutes If this team wants the best chance to win. If we are winning in the 3rd period you need to play Elias more. There really is no excuse to not play your best player that controls the game when he’s on the ice. I will cringe if I see green use beagle as some defensive specialist if/when we have a lead in the 3rd period. Beagle should be limited to pk duty and the odd shift.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Sutter is either hurt or out of shape. I saw an interview during break where he said he wasn't doing much. It rubbed me the wrong way then and more so now. Jake is far better than Sutter. Erickson is better if it is just for penalty kill. All I can say team better win and Sutter, Beagle better perform.

 

[Fedz]

You'd think with all the veteran leadership this team's shelled out for over the last 5 years this kind of thing wouldn't be coming up...

One could argue that all of this leadership is EXACTLY why this shit isn't accepted anymore.

Again, I get your sarcasm and appreciate it. I'm not necessarily a big fan of some of that "veteran leadership" but there is something to be said about a team's culture and building it the right way.

Don't have to look too far East to see what a poor team culture can look like..

 

[VanJack]

Sutter is either hurt or out of shape. I saw an interview during break where he said he wasn't doing much. It rubbed me the wrong way then and more so now. Jake is far better than Sutter. Erickson is better if it is just for penalty kill. All I can say team better win and Sutter, Beagle better perform.

The only thing that saves Sutter from having the worst contracts on the Canucks is that it's for less money than Eriksson's and only has one more year to run.

But if you were to base it strictly on performance, then you argue it is a worse contract than Eriksson's. At least Eriksson is an effective penalty killer, and good defensively in his own zone.

Sutter, on the other hand, looks done as an NHL player.....whether it's the cumulative effect of all the injuries, who knows? But it's hard not to cringe when you remember Jimbo proclaiming him a 'foundational player' when he traded a better third line center in Bonino and draft picks to acquire him from Pittsburgh.

 

[CherryToke]

This sums up the Virtanen situation to a T. Well said. I want him to succeed and I want him to play, but I think it’s pretty clear he’s upset people in the organization with some of his behaviour.

Yeah but scratching him from the lineup is not how to handle it. That just reeks of poor leadership to me. Let him play and call him out in front of his teammates if he plays like trash.

 

[Fedz]

No kidding , having EP on the PK would be the height of stupidity...Millers actually good PK'er, but I think that players in the bottom 6 should be on the PK.

The height of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Is the idea of playing your top 6 on the PK the right one in a perfect world? Of course not!

We aren't in a perfect world and the reality is our bottom 6 doesn't provide enough PK ability for us to sit a player that obviously does not deserve a roster spot. (Sutter)

 

[Fedz]

Yeah but scratching him from the lineup is not how to handle it. That just reeks of poor leadership to me. Let him play and call him out in front of his teammates if he plays like trash.

Do you think this MIGHT have happened at some point in the last 5 seasons..?

I'm gonna go ahead and assume this approach has been tried...a few times.

 

[CherryToke]

Do you think this MIGHT have happened at some point in the last 5 seasons..?

I'm gonna go ahead and assume this approach has been tried...a few times.

Well he just had a career year so letting him play seems to work... why stop now?

 

[Fedz]

Well he just had a career year so letting him play seems to work... why stop now?

Because an offseason later he showed up terribly out of shape, played poorly, and rubbed his teammates the wrong way before, during and after camp...

I'm not even suggesting he shouldn't playing. Just justifying the clearly obvious reason he didn't/potentially isn't.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The height of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Is the idea of playing your top 6 on the PK the right one in a perfect world? Of course not!

We aren't in a perfect world and the reality is our bottom 6 doesn't provide enough PK ability for us to sit a player that obviously does not deserve a roster spot. (Sutter)

Canucks PK (at the time of the shutdown) was middle of the pack..16th...Not the best ,not the worst.

 

[Fedz]

Canucks PK (at the time of the shutdown) was middle of the pack..16th...Not the best ,not the worst.

Precisely my point.

Imagine how much better it could be if we weren't relying on bottom 6 players that are slow, overpaid and statistically below average on the PK.

 

[racerjoe]

Because an offseason later he showed up terribly out of shape, played poorly, and rubbed his teammates the wrong way before, during and after camp...

I'm not even suggesting he shouldn't playing. Just justifying the clearly obvious reason he didn't/potentially isn't.

umm we don’t know most of this... this is implied from you, from a few things said.

I personally think for the most part we haven’t handled him very well overall and a large part of that is on green.

 

[datboichoi]

This “terribly out of shape” notion keeps getting posted in here without a shred of evidence...

 

[Fedz]

umm we don’t know most of this... this is implied from you, from a few things said.

I personally think for the most part we haven’t handled him very well overall and a large part of that is on green.

Has anyone said he showed up in tip top shape?

Has anyone said Virtanen played above average at all during camp?

Multiple Canucks quoted saying Jake made a mistake blah blah blah, canned answers. Behind scenes bigger deal than you obviously think.

During camp he got into multiple skirmishes including loudly being called out by the team captain after throwing a hissy fit after missing a breakaway. If this is normal or we can't conclude this makes Jake different, why didn't anyone else get yelled at like that by the Captain?

I'd argue at least 3/4 things I said in that post are very much public knowledge.

 

[Fedz]

This “terribly out of shape” notion keeps getting posted in here without a shred of evidence...

In shape Jake = 18 goals and a PP spot
Out of shape Jake = poor camp and a healthy scratch in Exhibition

Green pays his bills by winning games. He's not sitting Jake because he's proving a point. Green sat Jake because he thought he wasn't in the best 13F to win a game. He said so in his post game presser.

PLUS - Multiple media members stated Jake looked slow at camp...I wonder why?

Something changed...and I don't think it was Green's desire to win and have a job.

 

[notsocommonsense]

umm we don’t know most of this... this is implied from you, from a few things said.

I personally think for the most part we haven’t handled him very well overall and a large part of that is on green.

I’m curious as to how he hasn’t been handled well.

In my opinion, he never should have been in the league as early as he was, they def rushed him . . That’s on the organization, but that’s also a long time ago

Jake isn’t a pro, he shows that consistently. At the risk of sounding juvenile, Jake is a dummy, just doesn’t get the simple shit that I expect leaves his teammates and coach extremely frustrated.

So, they’re holding him accountable. . . Again. It’s part of creating a culture of dedication rather than selfishness. All of the other young players in Van seem to get this. Why should they allow Jake to step outside of the expectations that the rest of them are all fulfilling?

What should they be doing differently with him?

 

[datboichoi]

Brandon Sutter looked completely lost, slow and sluggish. If Travis Green watched this player play and concluded he should play over Virtanen than he’s a terrible talent evaluator.

If you’re gonna throw a statement around, back it up with actual reports, Patrick Johnson claimed Virtanen’s shape wasn’t an issue. If you can find something to debunk it, post it. If you can’t stop making slanderous claims.

 

[Fatass]

Brandon Sutter looked completely lost, slow and sluggish. If Travis Green watched this player play and concluded he should play over Virtanen than he’s a terrible talent evaluator.

If you’re gonna throw a statement around, back it up with actual reports, Patrick Johnson claimed Virtanen’s shape wasn’t an issue. If you can find something to debunk it, post it. If you can’t stop making slanderous claims.

First it’s not slander. Second, Jake has never showed up to a Canuck’s camp at weight, fit, or ready to play.
Why would you think this camp would be any different?