Plans, Trades, and Automobiles: Fixing the Winged Wheel

[Frk It]

you would think our committment was only and exclusively based on clearys committment which would have been to be a healthy and productive nhl player for 65-70 games

the second he failed to live up to his, ours becomes null and void.


hahaha holland, what a beauty

Great point. There should have been 2 sides to that commitment. Cleary didn't hold up his end of the deal.

 

[Mwd711]

Who gives a crap if he's given a 2-way contract and tryout like Maltby was before he walked away? He'll either retire and take a front office job or decide he's fine playing in GR for the year and mentoring the team's prospects. They need vets to fill out the GR roster anyway.

A complete non-issue. It's good business to honor commitments you make to your employees. That's an organizational mandate from the self-made billionaire businessman Mike Illitch as much as anything.

There is a limit as to how many players the Wings can have under contract. Last I checked, the Wings are at 48 including Tootoo and all their potential RFAs. I'd imagine several of those RFAs won't be offered deals but regardless, that's something to keep in mind.

Really, I don't see why Cleary wouldn't sign a deal with the Griffins as a player/assistant coach. Randy Cunneyworth parlayed a deal like that into a head coaching job in Rochester. Mike Keane did that in Manitoba which led to a front office gig for the Jets. There a history of character guys signing AHL deals in anticipation of their post playing career.

 

[leova]

The Wings made a verbal commitment to him to not just toss him after the season, and they're making good on what they offered. Not happy about it, and they shouldn't have made that commitment in the first place, but I don't find fault in them honoring it.

This is the crux of the situation, and an issue that a lot of people are glossing over

The main concern here isn't really money, roster space, or playing time...they made a (verbal) promise to a player, and they NEED to follow through.
Failure to do so would be very bad for their reputation as an honest, player-friendly team, and thats one of their biggest assets now that the actual roster-composition is downgraded from their heyday

 

[Frk It]

This is the crux of the situation, and an issue that a lot of people are glossing over

The main concern here isn't really money, roster space, or playing time...they made a (verbal) promise to a player, and they NEED to follow through.
Failure to do so would be very bad for their reputation as an honest, player-friendly team, and thats one of their biggest assets now that the actual roster-composition is downgraded from their heyday

Again. There's 2 sides. From Cleary's side he was supposed to provide something too. He didn't. It changes the whole scope of the agreement. He didn't hold up his end.

Players can be bought out. Coaches can be fired. A "verbal agreement" between the Red Wings and Dan Cleary is unvoidable? You absolutely have to be kidding me.

Professional sports is an ever changing landscape. Job security doesn't exist. I can't believe this stuff to be honest.

 

[Frk It]

Jordin Tootoo's real contract, that is actually legit and legally binding is about to be bought out. But Dan Clearys pinky promise with Ken Holland is unbreakable...

Oh, the irony.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Jordin Tootoo's real contract, that is actually legit and legally binding is about to be bought out. But Dan Clearys pinky promise with Ken Holland is unbreakable...

Oh, the irony.

now thats a good point

kind of throws the whole "kenny is a loyal buisniess man which is great for the franchise" arguement right out the window

unless of course talking out both sides your mouth is what makes you a man...

 

[odin1981]

If said article was from Anser Khan I would be worried about **** stain returning. But that thing that is not even worth being called a journalist means exactly ziltch. She is about the only person other than babs who is a bigger fan and cheerleader of he who shall not be named. I hope this is just overreaction because this is summer and there isn't much worth talking about for another week or so.

 

[crashman]

Jordin Tootoo's real contract, that is actually legit and legally binding is about to be bought out. But Dan Clearys pinky promise with Ken Holland is unbreakable...

Oh, the irony.

I was saying that last year, they put 3 players on waivers and it wasn't an issue. But I guess since Cleary was a big part of that cup winning team 6 years ago, he deserves special treatment.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

now thats a good point

kind of throws the whole "kenny is a loyal buisniess man which is great for the franchise" arguement right out the window

unless of course talking out both sides your mouth is what makes you a man...

I suppose if you consider Cleary and Tootoo to have the same ties to the organization.

Is there a loyalty clause that requires Holland to apply the same loyalty to all of his players, regardless of how long they have been in the organization? I don't want Cleary to play for the team but to act like they are the same situation is just looking for reasons to bag on Holland for an "agreement" which we don't even know the full details of yet.

I was saying that last year, they put 3 players on waivers and it wasn't an issue. But I guess since Cleary was a big part of that cup winning team 6 years ago, he deserves special treatment.

I would say a guy who worked at 100% effort throughout his stay here deserves better treatment than guys like Samuelsson or Emmerton. A roster spot? No way. But if we have space for him in the AHL and he retires in the AHL and goes on to scouting or coaching or whatever, I don't have a huge problem with that.

 

[SoupNazi]

If said article was from Anser Khan I would be worried about **** stain returning. But that thing that is not even worth being called a journalist means exactly ziltch. She is about the only person other than babs who is a bigger fan and cheerleader of he who shall not be named. I hope this is just overreaction because this is summer and there isn't much worth talking about for another week or so.

Khan is reporting it too, sadly:

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/06/red_wings_in_contract_talks_wi.html

 

[Frk It]

If said article was from Anser Khan I would be worried about **** stain returning. But that thing that is not even worth being called a journalist means exactly ziltch. She is about the only person other than babs who is a bigger fan and cheerleader of he who shall not be named. I hope this is just overreaction because this is summer and there isn't much worth talking about for another week or so.

Yeah, pretty sure I remember St James saying there's a good chance Franzen would be bought out, and that wasn't even remotely true.

So for all of our sake, I hope she's just blowing smoke per usual.

Little concerned though that Ansar did an article on it too and included a quote from Holland.

"He's coming off a real tough season," Holland said. "I know he's working really hard to try to get some leg strength to give himself the best opportunity he can for a bounce back year."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/06/red_wings_in_contract_talks_wi.html

I don't think it's baseless, I think it warrants some concern.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I suppose if you consider Cleary and Tootoo to have the same ties to the organization.

Is there a loyalty clause that requires Holland to apply the same loyalty to all of his players, regardless of how long they have been in the organization? I don't want Cleary to play for the team but to act like they are the same situation is just looking for reasons to bag on Holland for an "agreement" which we don't even know the full details of yet.

no i consider a legally binding contract to be of a much higher importance to maintaining and promoting a healthy work enviroment over a verbal promise, a "pinky swear."

we can have him as a scout or trainer or whatever as that is showing loyalty,

 

[ArGarBarGar]

no i consider a legally binding contract to be of a much higher importance to maintaining and promoting a healthy work enviroment over a verbal promise, a "pinky swear."

Buyouts are an acceptable part of signing an NHL contract. Holland isn't using under the table shenanigans to rid the team of Tootoo.

 

[Frk It]

Deserving? Of what?

This isn't Lidstrom or Yzerman. Or even Maltby of Draper. We don't owe him anything, we've given him far more than he deserves. The fact that they are even contemplating this shows you how incapable Holland is of doing his job.

 

[Frk It]

Buyouts are an acceptable part of signing an NHL contract. Holland isn't using under the table shenanigans to rid the team of Tootoo.

But changing your mind on a completely unofficial deal with a player that can't play anymore is unacceptable?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Buyouts are an acceptable part of signing an NHL contract. Holland isn't using under the table shenanigans to rid the team of Tootoo.

sorry but thats not what we were talking about

we were talking about how maintaing a verbal promise or pinky swear is how you build business relationships and i am sorry but voiding legal contracts in the business world is a heck of a lot more damaging to ones reputation

nobody said anything about whether a buyout is part of the nhl world as we were SOLELY talking about how kenny builds a player friendly reputation

 

[ArGarBarGar]

But changing your mind on a completely unofficial deal with a player that can't play anymore is unacceptable?

Not unacceptable, no. I'm citing how the situations are different.

Z4C: voiding a legal contract through a clause in the contract which was agreed upon by the organization and the NHL isn't underhanded nor harms a GM's reputation.

 

[Frk It]

Not unacceptable, no. I'm citing how the situations are different.

Z4C: voiding a legal contract through a clause in the contract which was agreed upon by the organization and the NHL isn't underhanded nor harms a GM's reputation.

I brought it up originally.

I was saying this. If players can be bought out, and coaches can be fired... Then there should be absolutely nothing that is negative about a GM not upholding a verbal agreement with a player.

And I will stand by that all day. This whole thing is ridiculous to me. That somehow Clearys agreement is "above the law", or the rules of engagement.

 

[Claypool]

Watching Clearly try to play hockey at least provides some entertainment value. It gives you every reason to tune in.

I personally don't think he makes the team next year, unless he had an amazing offseason and can beat out Jurco or even Mantha. I'm not too worried yet.

 

[Frk It]

Watching Clearly try to play hockey at least provides some entertainment value. It gives you every reason to tune in.

I personally don't think he makes the team next year, unless he had an amazing offseason and can beat out Jurco or even Mantha. I'm not too worried yet.

He beat out Nyquist last year. The playing field is hardly level for Dan Cleary. It's like competing for a promotion with the boss's son.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Do we even know what the agreement is at this point?

 

[SoupNazi]

Do we even know what the agreement is at this point?

No. We have nothing more than a couple of articles saying the Wings are negotiating. It could be as simple as the Wings sent him a contract offer and his agent said they're going to keep their options open and get back to him later.

 

[Frk It]

No. We have nothing more than a couple of articles saying the Wings are negotiating. It could be as simple as the Wings sent him a contract offer and his agent said they're going to keep their options open and get back to him later.

I think he's referring to that agreement that was made last year.

Pretty sure there's nothing official. I envision it to be a pinky promise. Possibly an exchanging of BFF bracelets.

 

[Claypool]

He beat out Nyquist last year. The playing field is hardly level for Dan Cleary. It's like competing for a promotion with the boss's son.

He's not going take a roster place of Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, or Jurco at this point. I don't see what everyone is worried about. Sounds to me like they'll give him an opportunity to get healthy and try to make the team. I don't think he has any roster spot guaranteed if and when a contract is signed.

 

[SoupNazi]

I think he's referring to that agreement that was made last year.

Pretty sure there's nothing official. I envision it to be a pinky promise. Possibly an exchanging of BFF bracelets.

Ah. That makes more sense.

And yeah, I agree that there's nothing official.