Confirmed with Link: PK Subban signed - 8y x 9M$ - Part II Meehan Strikes Back

[ECWHSWI]

Who cares if we save money 6 years from now? Really, what do you care about that?
Can you tell me anything that is set about our team 6 years from now?

So what's the point? Wouldn't you like to have PK for 4M cheaper over the next 3 years now?

over those three years

year 1 : MB, even before knowing how much PK would cost, said he was OK if we had a "step back year" if it meant our youngsters getting bigger roles and improving. And that also clearly means we're not going all in this season.

year 3 : there's enough players who will be without contract and enough $ freed up in the process, that what the team will look like is almost impossible to predict, therefore, least of Habs worries are how much saving will be made on a single player.

I know you have that fantazy about the next 3 years being the ones we should focus on, but the guy who runs the Habs sees it differently.

And yeah, it is fantazy, given what we know, it's pretty clear that at the very very very best we may contend in the last two of those three years, and that is, if everything goes right.

 

[jacks*]

Who cares if we save money 6 years from now? Really, what do you care about that?
Can you tell me anything that is set about our team 6 years from now?

So what's the point? Wouldn't you like to have PK for 4M cheaper over the next 3 years now?

And have a chance of not resigning him after those 3 yrs.Not a chance.
Having Subban for an 7.75 average from the age of 23 to 33 is great management.

 

[Agnostic]

If you think the Habs window is in the next three years, and that we shouldn't particularly care about what happens with Subban after that, well I've got news. The western teams aren't about to relinquish their hold on this league any time soon. This is a long term project requiring our best players to be locked up. I can't take anyone who wants to see PK become a free agent in 3 years very seriously.

 

[DAChampion]

There's no reason to assume that the Habs woukd have failed to resign Subban in four years.

 

[Sorinth]

And have a chance of not resigning him after those 3 yrs.Not a chance.
Having Subban for an 7.75 average from the age of 23 to 33 is great management.

There was a greater chance of losing Subban at an earlier age by going with the bridge deal.

We don't have Subban at 7.75 for 10 years we had him at 2.875 for 2 and now at 9m for 8.

 

[Sorinth]

If you think the Habs window is in the next three years, and that we shouldn't particularly care about what happens with Subban after that, well I've got news. The western teams aren't about to relinquish their hold on this league any time soon. This is a long term project requiring our best players to be locked up. I can't take anyone who wants to see PK become a free agent in 3 years very seriously.

Who said they don't care what happens after that? Saying the next 3 years are more important is because this has been our best window of opportunity in the last 20 years. And you want to pass it up because the west is too strong? How is anyone supposed to take you very seriously. There's no guarantee that the team will be better long term and plenty of reason to be skeptical.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

There's no reason to assume that the Habs woukd have failed to resign Subban in four years.

You are 100% right.

However, we have to acknowledge that the possibility of failing to sign Subban next year was infinitly higher if we didnt sign him long term. Just because P > 0 while P = 0 now.

I prefer assured stability over potential cap maximization over a single year.

 

[Not The One]

There was a greater chance of losing Subban at an earlier age by going with the bridge deal.

We don't have Subban at 7.75 for 10 years we had him at 2.875 for 2 and now at 9m for 8.

Who in their right mind would have thrown an almost 80 million $$$ contract offer at Subban two years ago? He would have been the top 3-4 highly paid defenseman in the league with zero accomplishments and consistency issues. And zero incentives to motivate him.

No thanks.

 

[Agnostic]

Who said they don't care what happens after that? Saying the next 3 years are more important is because this has been our best window of opportunity in the last 20 years. And you want to pass it up because the west is too strong? How is anyone supposed to take you very seriously. There's no guarantee that the team will be better long term and plenty of reason to be skeptical.

Don't be fooled by a fluke ECL appearance, this team is still a few players, and hence more than 3 years away from getting to the Hawks/Kings/Blues.

 

[Sorinth]

Who in their right mind would have thrown an almost 80 million $$$ contract offer at Subban two years ago? He would have been the top 3-4 highly paid defenseman in the league with zero accomplishments and consistency issues. And zero incentives to motivate him.

No thanks.

I think you completely missed the point of my post.

By going with a bridge deal instead of the 5 year deal there was a greater chance that Subban would hit UFA status earlier. Especially since we took such a hard line.

Look no further then O'Reilly in Colorado. He's likely gone after his 2 year deal is over. So they'll get 4 years from him. Had they signed him to the long term deal he originally wanted they would've had him for longer.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Who said they don't care what happens after that? Saying the next 3 years are more important is because this has been our best window of opportunity in the last 20 years. And you want to pass it up because the west is too strong? How is anyone supposed to take you very seriously. There's no guarantee that the team will be better long term and plenty of reason to be skeptical.

The next three or four years are pretty critical actually. Max, Price, Beaulieu, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher will all be in their prime. Plus we're in the East were you don't need to as good as those Western teams to make it to the final.

 

[Frozenice]

The next three or four years are pretty critical actually. Max, Price, Beaulieu, PK, Galchenyuk, Gallagher will all be in their prime. Plus we're in the East were you don't need to as good as those Western teams to make it to the final.

How many of those guys are actually going to be here in 3 or 4 years from now?

You may want them to be here but it wouldn't surprise me if half of those guys are gone. Does MB really want Beaulieu? Do Price and Max really want to stay here? Can Gallagher play his style of hockey for 3 to 5 more years? If Galchenyuk is forced to take a bridge deal will he stay?

Teams change a lot more then you think, even at what you consider the core level.

 

[Sorinth]

Don't be fooled by a fluke ECL appearance, this team is still a few players, and hence more than 3 years away from getting to the Hawks/Kings/Blues.

It has nothing to due with going to the ECF last season and everything to do with our play in the regular season the past 2 seasons.

We have 75 wins during that span. By comparison LA has 73, STL has 81 and Chicago has 83. So we are comparable. Last season almost every player on the team had near career worsts except for Price and yet we still had a 100pt season. That's a sign that we are actually a good team.

And really why was our run to the ECF a fluke. We outplayed Tampa, and outplayed Boston. We didn't steal either of those series we deserved to win them.

Every team has weaknesses, Chicago had Michael freaking Handzus as their 2nd line center when they won the cup. Last season LA had one player score more than 50pts. You don't need the perfect team to win the cup, you just have to be good enough to make it far and we are that. Especially since the East is so weak.

 

[Not The One]

I think you completely missed the point of my post.

By going with a bridge deal instead of the 5 year deal there was a greater chance that Subban would hit UFA status earlier. Especially since we took such a hard line.

Look no further then O'Reilly in Colorado. He's likely gone after his 2 year deal is over. So they'll get 4 years from him. Had they signed him to the long term deal he originally wanted they would've had him for longer.

"Greater chance" is meaningless now because we didn't loose him anyway.

Even in hindsight I'd personnally do the bridge deal again. Considering he won the Norris just after he was challenged to earn his next contract (hard line and all...), it's hard to discount that as a factor in his performance and consistency improvement since then. Plus, if he HAD busted (or stalled), we could have been stuck with one of the worst contracts in the league for a decade. Again, no thanks. Not worth the risk.

Now we're paying him his "fair" market value and both sides are satisfied. And they lived happily ever after.

 

[Price is Wright]

By going with a bridge deal instead of the 5 year deal there was a greater chance that Subban would hit UFA status earlier.

But he didn't.

So it doesn't matter what you think anymore because it isn't reality. It doesn't matter what the risk was. It doesn't matter what could have been. It wasn't.

 

[zeeto]

Even in hindsight I'd personnally do the bridge deal again. Considering he won the Norris just after he was challenged to earn his next contract (hard line and all...), it's hard to discount that as a factor in his performance and consistency improvement since then. Plus, if he HAD busted (or stalled), we could have been stuck with one of the worst contracts in the league for a decade. Again, no thanks. Not worth the risk.

I really hate this thought process. So now that he's garnered his big contract do you think he's just going to coast and not improve? I don't know Subban from a hole in the wall, but he seems like the kind of guy to want to improve whether he received the big contract now or two years ago.

 

[Kriss E]

over those three years

year 1 : MB, even before knowing how much PK would cost, said he was OK if we had a "step back year" if it meant our youngsters getting bigger roles and improving. And that also clearly means we're not going all in this season.

year 3 : there's enough players who will be without contract and enough $ freed up in the process, that what the team will look like is almost impossible to predict, therefore, least of Habs worries are how much saving will be made on a single player.

I know you have that fantazy about the next 3 years being the ones we should focus on, but the guy who runs the Habs sees it differently.

And yeah, it is fantazy, given what we know, it's pretty clear that at the very very very best we may contend in the last two of those three years, and that is, if everything goes right.

And it is a fantasy, given what we know and what you even admitted, that the years 4+ (you know, those years Bergevin isn't even signed for and where the majority of the players aren't even signed past) are not the ones we should be focusing on.

Yea, you're totally right, who cares about the next 3 years. It's just the years where most of our players are going to be most effective in their careers but who cares.
I can't wait to see player X and Y excel in 4 years, they're gonna be awesome.

 

[Kriss E]

And have a chance of not resigning him after those 3 yrs.Not a chance.
Having Subban for an 7.75 average from the age of 23 to 33 is great management.

Subban is signed to 9M over 8 years, not 7.75M. There's no reason to believe we would have lost Subban in 5 years.

 

[Not The One]

I really hate this thought process. So now that he's garnered his big contract do you think he's just going to coast and not improve? I don't know Subban from a hole in the wall, but he seems like the kind of guy to want to improve whether he received the big contract now or two years ago.

I would tend to think from what we know of his personality that this is true but, again, we can only judge what actually happened.

The fact that upper management took a harder stance with him than with Desharnais, Eller, Markov et al. AND that MT does seem to take a different approach vs. Subban than with some other players at least indicates that the people who DO know him think that this is the best way to motivate him.

So far, the results on the ice seem to validate that theory. Of course as he matures, I would expect that this will go away and the Subban will emerge as a leader on this team.

 

[Kriss E]

If you think the Habs window is in the next three years, and that we shouldn't particularly care about what happens with Subban after that, well I've got news. The western teams aren't about to relinquish their hold on this league any time soon. This is a long term project requiring our best players to be locked up. I can't take anyone who wants to see PK become a free agent in 3 years very seriously.

In 3 years, we would have re-signed PK. Most of the rest of the team would be completely unknown. So ya, it's pretty darn irrelevant to discuss and we have no idea if we could use cap savings. I also doubt 9M will be considered cap savings.

 

[Sorinth]

"Greater chance" is meaningless now because we didn't loose him anyway.

Even in hindsight I'd personnally do the bridge deal again. Considering he won the Norris just after he was challenged to earn his next contract (hard line and all...), it's hard to discount that as a factor in his performance and consistency improvement since then. Plus, if he HAD busted (or stalled), we could have been stuck with one of the worst contracts in the league for a decade. Again, no thanks. Not worth the risk.

Now we're paying him his "fair" market value and both sides are satisfied. And they lived happily ever after.

Yet your original post claimed that the chance of Subban leaving after a 5 year deal was a major reason why the bridge deal was a good idea. How come that "chance" counts as a negative but the one I brought up is meaningless?

There was a greater chance of Subban leaving doing what we did, so if Subban leaving is your prime concern then it was dumb to do. If you thought Subban was going to bust then that's a different argument. If you couldn't see Subban for what he was 2 years ago then you were wrong in your evaluation of him.

And how exactly would a 5x5 contract be one of the worst contracts in the league for a decade?

But he didn't.

So it doesn't matter what you think anymore because it isn't reality. It doesn't matter what the risk was. It doesn't matter what could have been. It wasn't.

If you play Russian roulette and don't shoot yourself do you then say it doesn't matter what the risk was?

 

[JohnLennon]

Subban is signed to 9M over 8 years, not 7.75M. There's no reason to believe we would have lost Subban in 5 years.

But from a management perspective, it just makes more sense to sign your player through as many UFA years as possible. Even if you're willing to risk UFA after 5 years, it is still just that: a risk. And not a smart one to take with the face of your franchise.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

How many of those guys are actually going to be here in 3 or 4 years from now?

You may want them to be here but it wouldn't surprise me if half of those guys are gone. Does MB really want Beaulieu? Do Price and Max really want to stay here? Can Gallagher play his style of hockey for 3 to 5 more years? If Galchenyuk is forced to take a bridge deal will he stay?

Teams change a lot more then you think, even at what you consider the core level.

Gallagher, Beaulieu and Galchenyuk are all coming into their prime in the next three years. PK, Price and Max are there now. The window over the next three years is going to be better than its been in the last 20.

Could guys leave or get hurt? Sure. You can't plan for that. But when I look at the core we've got right now, it's a good group that's up and coming. And the next three to four years is easier to see than the years proceeding them.

As for Beaulieu, I'm pretty high on that guy based on what I've seen. As long as he can keep his head, he's going to be a really good blueliner for us.

As for forcing Galchenyuk to take a bridge or leave... let's just say that if/when that happens, it will be WWIII here.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

Who in their right mind would have thrown an almost 80 million $$$ contract offer at Subban two years ago? He would have been the top 3-4 highly paid defenseman in the league with zero accomplishments and consistency issues. And zero incentives to motivate him.

No thanks.

You probably mean "zero material incentive"

Because i have no doubt that Subban, at his very core, wants to improve and become the greatest competitor in this sport. He's got the character for it, and the ambition.

To say that no money incentive would mean he'd have no reason to compete is, in my opinion, damn insulting. Do you see Subban as nothing more than a mercenary?

 

[Sorinth]

But from a management perspective, it just makes more sense to sign your player through as many UFA years as possible. Even if you're willing to risk UFA after 5 years, it is still just that: a risk. And not a smart one to take with the face of your franchise.

And the way we handled it was also a risk. It was arguably a bigger risk since Subban ended up sitting out 6 games thinking about his future with the team before the bridge deal, and then ending up in an arbitration hearing and being very close to him being 1 year removed from UFA after two difficult negotiations. That's a much bigger risk then giving him what he wants as an RFA and then re-signing him before he becomes UFA.