PK on Bergevin: a lot of people gotta lay off of him now

[Devourers]

PK is so much more mature than non-hab fans and media give him credit for. It's things like that which make me believe he'll soon be ready to be captain. At the very least an A.

 

[MtlBoxFan]

Spoken like a man who just signed for 72 million dollars.

Regardless of what was said, it's over, and he's been shown the money.

 

[Sorinth]

What do other players and other arbitrations have to do with Subban and this contract?

Our fear of an arbitrated contract and our fear of Subban feeling disrespected are not the same as an actual arbitrated contract and actual disrespect. Neither happened. All our imagined negative outcomes were in our heads, not between Bergevin and Subban.

The worst Bergevin can be accused of is being dramatic. He waited until the arbitration process started to finally agree on the numbers, knowing full well arbitration was never going to be completed.

Other players are examples of how these kinds of situations CAN cause problems. It's great that it didn't but why take that risk, what did we gain?

The idea that if something bad doesn't happen then the action was fine is stupid. If I drive home drunk and don't get in an accident does that mean it wasn't a bad decision?

 

[Habnot]

Still waiting for the hard evidence that the arbitration process was not necessary to get the deal done.....

crickets......

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Ok - here is the challenge. Come up with an iota of direct evidence that the arbitration process was not necessary to get the deal done. What we do know is that the deal occurred after the arbitration hearing - therefore making it highly reasonable to infer the hearing lead to the contract.

BTW - we do have PK's words that complete contradict everything your are imaging in your head.

I'll see your challenge and cite you the same. Where is the direct evidence it was necessary? Neither of us will ever have quantifiable proof because that information never becomes available to the public. What we do know is every other team in the last while has managed to sign their star players without arbitration. Even Doughty, who threatened to hold out on LA, eventually got a contract close to his demands. Furthermore, there is nothing to insinuate Subban was gunning for 11M, but the bridge deal prior does suggest Bergevin preferred a lower amount.

In the end, this is all just theory based on a more likely than not scenario. You are welcome to your opinion as I am mine.

As for Subban's word. Yes, because hockey players are known for their blunt honesty to the media. That's why we never hear anything about hockey cliches.

 

[Prendan Brust]

Other players are examples of how these kinds of situations CAN cause problems. It's great that it didn't but why take that risk, what did we gain?
The idea that if something bad doesn't happen then the action was fine is stupid. If I drive home drunk and don't get in an accident does that mean it wasn't a bad decision?

It's impossible to answer that question. We don't know what was initially offered by the habs and what was initially asked by Subban. And your second point is certainly true but right now we have nothing to assess whether the arbitration process was necessary or not.

Basically, the only sure thing is that Subban signed a 8 years 9 M contract and since you reject Subban's quote about his perception of the negociations and their outcome, all we are left with are conjectures about how the negociations went and how Subban perceived these negociations.

But that seems to be enough for a lot of people because many seem to believe Bergevin slighted Subban and dropped the ball big time even though he got him signed. And you seem to be one of them.

 

[Lshap]

Other players are examples of how these kinds of situations CAN cause problems. It's great that it didn't but why take that risk, what did we gain?

The idea that if something bad doesn't happen then the action was fine is stupid. If I drive home drunk and don't get in an accident does that mean it wasn't a bad decision?

Avoiding a drunk-driving accident is not a relevant example. Signing Subban was no uncontrolled risk. Bergevin had the option at any moment to say "Okay" to the deal, which he finally did before the arbitrated contract was settled. There was never a risk of a head-on crash with the arbitrator saying, "Surprise! I've decided on the amount early!". Bergevin decided it would not be arbitrated, therefore he made sure it wasn't.

As to the question of what we gained, we'll never know exactly. But by waiting until after the arbitration hearing, one side may have given up a little more. That's not disrespectful in the least -- that's a normal business tactic.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Other players are examples of how these kinds of situations CAN cause problems. It's great that it didn't but why take that risk, what did we gain?

The idea that if something bad doesn't happen then the action was fine is stupid. If I drive home drunk and don't get in an accident does that mean it wasn't a bad decision?

We gained Subban for 8 years. And a happy one.....unless you ignore his own quotes. If so, then we can just as easily say we have an angry Subban that would do anything to get back at those who disrespected him to the point he will demand a trade at the drop of the hat when he doesn't get his way.

See, that's the problem. So many here are simply using conjecture and imagination to create problems where there are none. Its like they're auditioning for a spot on L'Antichambre by inventing drama for the sake of it.

All by ignoring what the player actually said. If he wasn't happy Subban is candid enough to stay away from words like commitment or saying " I'm happy that it's done now and everybody's happy about it."..........reading that Ican see how anyone can read into it that he'sangry....it is a pretty vague statement.

 

[Habnot]

I'll see your challenge and cite you the same. Where is the direct evidence it was necessary? Neither of us will ever have quantifiable proof because that information never becomes available to the public. What we do know is every other team in the last while has managed to sign their star players without arbitration. Even Doughty, who threatened to hold out on LA, eventually got a contract close to his demands. Furthermore, there is nothing to insinuate Subban was gunning for 11M, but the bridge deal prior does suggest Bergevin preferred a lower amount.

In the end, this is all just theory based on a more likely than not scenario. You are welcome to your opinion as I am mine.

As for Subban's word. Yes, because hockey players are known for their blunt honesty to the media. That's why we never hear anything about hockey cliches.

Only difference is that you are using your opinion to blast Bergevin and you continue to wrap yourself in your argument based on fantasy.

I don't see posters coming here and calling Bergevin a genius for signing Subban. All I see is the hords of haters that bring up the bridge, the disrespecting of Subban, the shame of arbitration, etc...based on NO real facts and Subban saying all that was done was with respect and praise of MB.

The deal was done and both sides deserve praise. As they say in Italy..punto e basta

 

[groovejuice]

Only difference is that you are using your opinion to blast Bergevin and you continue to wrap yourself in your argument based on fantasy.

I don't see posters coming here and calling Bergevin a genius for signing Subban. All I see is the hords of haters that bring up the bridge, the disrespecting of Subban, the shame of arbitration, etc...based on NO real facts and Subban saying all that was done was with respect and praise of MB.

The deal was done and both sides deserve praise. As they say in Italy..punto e basta

No offense, but signing Subban was not genius. It was competency. Not signing him would have been the opposite.

 

[Sorinth]

It's impossible to answer that question. We don't know what was initially offered by the habs and what was initially asked by Subban. And your second point is certainly true but right now we have nothing to assess whether the arbitration process was necessary or not.

Basically, the only sure thing is that Subban signed a 8 years 9 M contract and since you reject Subban's quote about his perception of the negociations and their outcome, all we are left with are conjectures about how the negociations went and how Subban perceived these negociations.

But that seems to be enough for a lot of people because many seem to believe Bergevin slighted Subban and dropped the ball big time even though he got him signed. And you seem to be one of them.

Yes we don't know but pretty much everyone thinks that it was Bergevin who agreed to Subban rather then the other way around. If it's true then it was a stupid thing to do. If it was Subban then whether it was stupid or not depends on how much money we saved. If we only saved a little then it was a stupid risk, if we saved a lot then it was worth the risk.

I have no doubt that whenever Bergevin spoke to Subban that he did so in a respectful manner. I've never once said Bergevin was disrespectful or even that Subban felt disrespected. But it all comes down to how Subban perceives Bergevin's actions and not his words. His actions made it seem that he didn't value Subban as much as he should've.

Getting Subban signed long term is a win. But just because it's a win doesn't mean everything we did was right or that things couldn't have been done better.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Only difference is that you are using your opinion to blast Bergevin and you continue to wrap yourself in your argument based on fantasy.

I don't see posters coming here and calling Bergevin a genius for signing Subban. All I see is the hords of haters that bring up the bridge, the disrespecting of Subban, the shame of arbitration, etc...based on NO real facts and Subban saying all that was done was with respect and praise of MB.

The deal was done and both sides deserve praise. As they say in Italy..punto e basta

No one is debating the end result, sometimes discussing the process is equally important. Last year when the Leafs were solidly in the playoffs many thought they were on the cusp of being a real good team, even some on our board here and not just Leaf fans, but if you followed the process instead of relying solely on the results you could see that their collapse was almost inevitable.

Actually, I think MB will revisit his post ELC bridge deals and no longer use a one-size fits all strategy.

 

[Lshap]

No offense, but signing Subban was not genius. It was competency. Not signing him would have been the opposite.

The hyperbole on both sides drives me nuts. No, of course not, it's not "Genius" to sign your star dman. The bridge deal wasn't "Stupid". Subban was never "Screwed" nor "Disrespected".

The simple and far less dramatic truth is that from 2013 through this past Saturday, Bergevin & Subban got the job done. Period. And when you're negotiating a big contract, that's the best possible scenario. Any outcome that tilts too far in one party's favour will not hold.

 

[TheGoalJudge]

I can't understand this absolutely undying zeal to pit Subban against Bergevin.

It's been going on forever. Meanwhile, Subban wins Norris. Subban's ice-time dramatically increases. MTL makes ECF. Subban signs huge contract.

The way things are trending we're going to win the cup and he's going to get the Conn Smythe, have a kid and make Bergevin the Godfather and we'll still be debating the same things LOL!

 

[Halifaxhab*]

The hyperbole on both sides drives me nuts. No, of course not, it's not "Genius" to sign your star dman. The bridge deal wasn't "Stupid". Subban was never "Screwed" nor "Disrespected".

The simple and far less dramatic truth is that from 2013 through this past Saturday, Bergevin & Subban got the job done. Period. And when you're negotiating a big contract, that's the best possible scenario. Any outcome that tilts too far in one party's favour will not hold.

They are auditioning for the latest TVA post game show called Hyperbole----Episode des Canadiens.

I can't understand this absolutely undying zeal to pit Subban against Bergevin.

It's been going on forever. Meanwhile, Subban wins Norris. Subban's ice-time dramatically increases. MTL makes ECF. Subban signs huge contract.

The way things are trending we're going to win the cup and he's going to get the Conn Smythe, have a kid and make Bergevin the Godfather and we'll still be debating the same things LOL!

I see Meehan making big money creating a PPV with these two going at it MMA style.....but only after a dance off.

 

[Lshap]

No one is debating the end result, sometimes discussing the process is equally important. Last year when the Leafs were solidly in the playoffs many thought they were on the cusp of being a real good team, even some on our board here and not just Leaf fans, but if you followed the process instead of relying solely on the results you could see that their collapse was almost inevitable.

Actually, I think MB will revisit his post ELC bridge deals and no longer use a one-size fits all strategy.

I'll be very interested to see if you're right about future bridge deals, though I don't see any young Hab who could realistically expect a big contract next year. A bridge seems inevitable for Galchenyuk, Gallagher, etc.

Subban's bridge/long-term debate was very rare, because he's a very rare talent.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Only difference is that you are using your opinion to blast Bergevin and you continue to wrap yourself in your argument based on fantasy.

I don't see posters coming here and calling Bergevin a genius for signing Subban. All I see is the hords of haters that bring up the bridge, the disrespecting of Subban, the shame of arbitration, etc...based on NO real facts and Subban saying all that was done was with respect and praise of MB.

The deal was done and both sides deserve praise. As they say in Italy..punto e basta

Why would people call him a genius for doing what was expected? That is like credited a team as a stellar drafter when they pick the BPA 1st overall. As someone else said, it's competency. Trading for Vanek is something I give praise to Bergevin for not doing the obvious.

I also question why being critical of Bergevin somehow labels me a "hater." So what, he is above reproach just because he eventually did what everyone expected? I am glad we have Subban for eight years, but that does not mean we cannot analyse (or be critical of) the road it took to get there.

And I reiterate, hockey players always adhere to the positive in media. Perhaps Subban does feel that way; kudos to him if he does. I am just not going to put much weight into it when it's commonplace.

 

[Lshap]

They are auditioning for the latest TVA post game show called Hyperbole----Episode des Canadiens.

That's the single greatest, most brilliant idea since flushable toilets!!

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I'll be very interested to see if you're right about future bridge deals, though I don't see any young Hab who could realistically expect a big contract next year. A bridge seems inevitable for Galchenyuk, Gallagher, etc.

Subban's bridge/long-term debate was very rare, because he's a very rare talent.

I think we may see higher dollar amounts given even if the term remains short. Say Galchenyuk does force his way into centre and has a stellar 70 point season. I have to wonder if Bergevin will push as adamantly for a 2-3M bridge this time around.

 

[Sorinth]

Avoiding a drunk-driving accident is not a relevant example. Signing Subban was no uncontrolled risk. Bergevin had the option at any moment to say "Okay" to the deal, which he finally did before the arbitrated contract was settled. There was never a risk of a head-on crash with the arbitrator saying, "Surprise! I've decided on the amount early!". Bergevin decided it would not be arbitrated, therefore he made sure it wasn't.

As to the question of what we gained, we'll never know exactly. But by waiting until after the arbitration hearing, one side may have given up a little more. That's not disrespectful in the least -- that's a normal business tactic.

The risk was Subban saying he's had enough and deciding he'll play out the next 2 years and head to free agency. Bergevin had no way of knowing when enough is enough for Subban.

Waiting until after the hearing isn't disrespectful standing before the arbitrator and saying Subban is only worth 5.25m can be. Saying that individual accomplishments were due to you making them a better person. Having serious reservations about committiment. These are all straws being put on the camel's back, we have no idea when enough would've have been enough, putting another a day before your about to commit 72m seems dumb.

We gained Subban for 8 years. And a happy one.....unless you ignore his own quotes. If so, then we can just as easily say we have an angry Subban that would do anything to get back at those who disrespected him to the point he will demand a trade at the drop of the hat when he doesn't get his way.

See, that's the problem. So many here are simply using conjecture and imagination to create problems where there are none. Its like they're auditioning for a spot on L'Antichambre by inventing drama for the sake of it.

All by ignoring what the player actually said. If he wasn't happy Subban is candid enough to stay away from words like commitment or saying " I'm happy that it's done now and everybody's happy about it."..........reading that Ican see how anyone can read into it that he'sangry....it is a pretty vague statement.

Where did I say he's angry? He just made 72m I'm sure he's ecstatic.

We didn't gain 8 years, he said from day 1 he wants to spend his whole career in Montreal. Or are you saying we can't take his word on that?

 

[Sorinth]

No one is debating the end result, sometimes discussing the process is equally important. Last year when the Leafs were solidly in the playoffs many thought they were on the cusp of being a real good team, even some on our board here and not just Leaf fans, but if you followed the process instead of relying solely on the results you could see that their collapse was almost inevitable.

Actually, I think MB will revisit his post ELC bridge deals and no longer use a one-size fits all strategy.

Exactly.

 

[ottawahabs]

I'll be very interested to see if you're right about future bridge deals, though I don't see any young Hab who could realistically expect a big contract next year. A bridge seems inevitable for Galchenyuk, Gallagher, etc.

Subban's bridge/long-term debate was very rare, because he's a very rare talent.

Galchenyuk, tinordi and beaulieu will get bridge contracts for sure in my opinion, and i don't see them opposing any resistance to it as I believe it's in the team and their interest as well given their anticipated ongoing development that should enable them to squeeze a bigger contract later once more proven. The only guy that I could imagine getting or wanting a longer contract right away is Gallagher, since I believe that what we currently see is what we get, which is great. However, I also wouldn't be surprised to see them stick closely to team policy, it will be interesting.

 

[habsfanatics*]

I'll be very interested to see if you're right about future bridge deals, though I don't see any young Hab who could realistically expect a big contract next year. A bridge seems inevitable for Galchenyuk, Gallagher, etc.

Subban's bridge/long-term debate was very rare, because he's a very rare talent.

True, but even for the gallys I think he might move away from it. You don't have to wait for these guys to break out completely to lock them up, actually, it's better to lock them up before they break out if, if you can and the player is willing to.

They should have enough idea if they Gally's are someone they want around for awhile by the end of next season.

 

[Habnot]

Why would people call him a genius for doing what was expected? That is like credited a team as a stellar drafter when they pick the BPA 1st overall. As someone else said, it's competency. Trading for Vanek is something I give praise to Bergevin for not doing the obvious.

I also question why being critical of Bergevin somehow labels me a "hater." So what, he is above reproach just because he eventually did what everyone expected? I am glad we have Subban for eight years, but that does not mean we cannot analyse (or be critical of) the road it took to get there.

And I reiterate, hockey players always adhere to the positive in media. Perhaps Subban does feel that way; kudos to him if he does. I am just not going to put much weight into it when it's commonplace.

My point is that you are being critical without factual basis, spinning the sequence of events to fit your fantasy scenario. How can you be critical of the process if you have none of the facts concerning the negotiations? It's useless drivel as far as I am concerned - that's what I am calling you out on.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

The hyperbole on both sides drives me nuts. No, of course not, it's not "Genius" to sign your star dman. The bridge deal wasn't "Stupid". Subban was never "Screwed" nor "Disrespected".

The simple and far less dramatic truth is that from 2013 through this past Saturday, Bergevin & Subban got the job done. Period. And when you're negotiating a big contract, that's the best possible scenario. Any outcome that tilts too far in one party's favour will not hold.

They are auditioning for the latest TVA post game show called Hyperbole----Episode des Canadiens.

I can't understand this absolutely undying zeal to pit Subban against Bergevin.

It's been going on forever. Meanwhile, Subban wins Norris. Subban's ice-time dramatically increases. MTL makes ECF. Subban signs huge contract.

The way things are trending we're going to win the cup and he's going to get the Conn Smythe, have a kid and make Bergevin the Godfather and we'll still be debating the same things LOL!

I see Meehan making big money creating a PPV with these two going at it MMA style.....but only after a dance off.