OT: Pittsburgh sports hierarchy

[Winger for Hire]

It's really hard to compare playoff success between the two sports.

 

[plaidchuck]

You can't be serious.. 16 teams make the nhl playoffs for christs sake... and the pens.division was complete garbage that one year. So.bad that they clinched it with 20 games left or something.

With the resources available to them, the penguins have been a huge disappointment. Just because you hate Nutting doesn't take away what the pirates have done.

Anyways the one thing the pens do great is market to a younger demographic, especially the college one. I really do wonder what will happen when.crosby and malkin or.at the end of their careers.

 

[brewski420]

1) Penguins
2) Pirates
3) Steelers

That's just my personal one. I obviously love hockey so much more than anything and would love to go to a Pirates playoff game deep in the postseason. I like the Steelers and follow hard, but NFL is such a turn off to me at this point, i'd go with Pirates over them.

I totally agree with this on all points. The NFL has really lost what it once was for me. I saw the Steelers play at Pitt Stadium so been a fan a long time but cancelled Sunday Ticket a couple years ago after many years. No comparison to a playoff hockey game in any other sport imo.

 

[sycamore]

Baseball is basically a bunch of adults role-playing a spreadsheet without the charm of dungeons and dragons and severely overpriced beer. Football is a masterclass in irreversible head trauma, medical malpractice, and ******** military analogies.

Well said. Baseball is too boring, football is too violent.

 

[sycamore]

Fair enough, but hockey isn't?

Not nearly to the extent that football is.

 

[Shockmaster]

The penguins pissed away years of having top players in their prime, while.the pirates have a shoestring budget in a non cap league and still compete. Big difference there.

And what happens if the Pirates never win anything while McCutchen is in Pittsburgh?

 

[HandshakeLine]

You can't be serious.. 16 teams make the nhl playoffs for christs sake... and the pens.division was complete garbage that one year. So.bad that they clinched it with 20 games left or something.

With the resources available to them, the penguins have been a huge disappointment. Just because you hate Nutting doesn't take away what the pirates have done.

Anyways the one thing the pens do great is market to a younger demographic, especially the college one. I really do wonder what will happen when.crosby and malkin or.at the end of their careers.

You're really defensive about your favorite spreadsheet simulation there, dude. I just don't get the appeal nor bagging on the Pens for doing something the Pirates rarely do (make the post-season).

 

[Winger for Hire]

Well said. Baseball is too boring, football is too violent.

More or less violent than football?

 

[HandshakeLine]

More or less violent than football?

Still less.

The problem isn't fights or hitting, it's the constant repeated hits to the head every football player takes from pee-wee onwards, plus the cover-up of concussions that's done in college and NFL.

Football is a terrible sport that destroys its players. Hockey is rough on the body, but there really is no comparison. My sister did her phd research in concussions at University of Nebraska and she and her colleagues came to the conclusion that it was by far the most brutal sport we have sanctioned. Even MMA had lower rates of brain injury.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I hate football as much as the next person, but don't say it's less violent.

Less head trauma, sure. It's just as violent.

 

[plaidchuck]

And what happens if the Pirates never win anything while McCutchen is in Pittsburgh?

They still for the most part made the best of what they had and made good moves as far as the fo goes.

Meanwhile the penguins surrounded Crosby with garbage for years and allowed a coach and gm to stay way past their expiration date, while hiring yet another unproven coach.

For the record I.still love hockey the most, but the penguins have squandered their gifts for the most part. They managed to mitigate the advantage of having the top two players in this league.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

The entire game of football is essentially based on hitting poor people in the head over and over and over from high school through the pros, and then lying about how well they're dealing with concussions. Besides, love it or hate it, the NHL has at least been concerned enough about the legal ramifications of head trauma to institute more robust concussion protocols and to change the rules to discourage the more dangerous hits to the head. The NFL lied repeatedly about head trauma and has tried to wiggle out of its own responsibility for creating a new neurological disease, and that's not even taking into consideration the exploitation circus that is college football.

Football is never gonna change, as long as the NFL is in business. Changing tackling rules and instituting better injury protocol would deprive the average fan of his big hits and viewership will decrease. That's bad for business. And the NFL is nothing but a corrupt-ass bidnes with absolutely no regard for the health and well-being of its employees.

In summary, **** football and **** the entire football industry. It's a mug's game and I refuse to be a part of it.

Despite being a Steelers fan, I agree with the general sentiment of your post, however the bolded is false. Recently they have outlawed headshots. Compare today's NFL to 10 years ago to 40 years ago when WRs would just get forearm shiver to the head after forearm shiver to the head. It has changed.

 

[Shockmaster]

They still for the most part made the best of what they had and made good moves as far as the fo goes.

Meanwhile the penguins surrounded Crosby with garbage for years and allowed a coach and gm to stay way past their expiration date, while hiring yet another unproven coach.

For the record I.still love hockey the most, but the penguins have squandered their gifts for the most part. They managed to mitigate the advantage of having the top two players in this league.

Okay, but guess what? The Penguins core actually won something, the Pirates core hasn't even come close. Maybe it's time to stop looking at the Pirates as the little engine that could and start having greater expectations for them.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Okay, but guess what? The Penguins core actually won something, the Pirates core hasn't even come close. Maybe it's time to stop looking at the Pirates as the little engine that could and start having greater expectations for them.

Like being the 2nd best team in baseball currently? With a window just opening, kind of like how the Penguins started out?

This is slowly degenerating into "let's **** on the other sports/teams we don't like".

 

[Shockmaster]

Like being the 2nd best team in baseball currently? With a window just opening, kind of like how the Penguins started out?

Nobody would pat the Penguins on the back for being a strong regular season team after their third year of making the playoffs.

Again, what is wrong with raising expectations for the Pirates in the postseason?

 

[plaidchuck]

The expectations are there. And they've still done better the last three years than the penguins.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Okay, but guess what? The Penguins core actually won something, the Pirates core hasn't even come close. Maybe it's time to stop looking at the Pirates as the little engine that could and start having greater expectations for them.

You're comparing the Pirates while they're not at their peak to a Penguins team that peaked in 2009. How is that a good comparison? That's like saying the Pens of 2008 were worse than the Pens now because the Pens now actually won a cup in 2009.

Playoff baseball is completely different than playoff hockey. When you're stuck in the division with the best team in baseball, you're relegated to a 1 "win and in" game. Sometimes, you get stuck going against a god mode pitcher (Bumgarner last year). The Pirates have only been to the playoffs twice so far (lost to eventual world series champions both times), so let's wait a little before we start criticizing them for lack of playoff success.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Nobody would pat the Penguins on the back for being a strong regular season team after their third year of making the playoffs.

Again, what is wrong with raising expectations for the Pirates in the postseason?

Nothing, and we've gladly raised them, but it's a different beast comparing hockey playoff success to baseball playoff success. You don't get penalized in hockey for being the 2nd best team in the league with the best team stuck in your division. Not to mention pitching rotations and such further penalizing that.

If you think the Pirates fans aren't raising their expectations of the team, you should come on over to the Pirates thread and see how sky high the expectations are.

A strong regular season is something to be proud of when only 4 teams in your league make the playoffs.

 

[Shockmaster]

The expectations are there. And they've still done better the last three years than the penguins.

lol. How?

 

[SwordofStMichael]

These alleged "diehard" Pirates fans have no damn clue of how they got to this point. And the corrupt media suddenly has amnesia.

A few questions for Bucco Nation:
-in 2007, why did it take so long to hire a new president?
-who were some candidates for Pirates president job?
-where did Frank Coonelly come from, where did he work prior to becoming Pirates president?
-who hired Frank Coonelly? Bob Nutting or was it really Bud Selig?

The FACT is in 2007 NO ONE wanted the job. A president of a major league baseball franchise is a license to print money, yet NO ONE wanted the Pittsburgh Pirates job.
Why not?
The FACT is in 2007 Bud Selig sent Frank Coonelly, a lawyer with NO experience, to Pittsburgh with instructions that the club be run as a legitimate baseball TEAM instead of a family college fund.
By 2007 the Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Club was the laughing stock of North American sports. There was a well publicized fan walkout that summer, one that the corrupt regime and local media hoped no one would notice.
But Major League Baseball leadership sure did take notice.
The Pirates were an embarrassment and drag on the entire game. Hell, some considered the club a borderline criminal enterprise, pilfering the local community and humiliating the other owners.
Major League Baseball had to step in and takeover.
Bud Selig hired Frank Coonelly. MLB turned the Pirates around.
So, instead of praising analytics, wiz kids, advanced stats, voodoo pitching coaches(pharmacists) and other ******** TRUE Pirates fans should instead give all glory where it is due: to the hated Bud Selig, he saved the Pirates.

 

[ColePens]

I stopped reading at "no one wanted the job" because that's completely ridiculous. A lot of people would have taken that gig. A lot of people.

 

[Winger for Hire]

These alleged "diehard" Pirates fans have no damn clue of how they got to this point. And the corrupt media suddenly has amnesia.

A few questions for Bucco Nation:
-in 2007, why did it take so long to hire a new president?
-who were some candidates for Pirates president job?
-where did Frank Coonelly come from, where did he work prior to becoming Pirates president?
-who hired Frank Coonelly? Bob Nutting or was it really Bud Selig?

The FACT is in 2007 NO ONE wanted the job. A president of a major league baseball franchise is a license to print money, yet NO ONE wanted the Pittsburgh Pirates job.
Why not?
The FACT is in 2007 Bud Selig sent Frank Coonelly, a lawyer with NO experience, to Pittsburgh with instructions that the club be run as a legitimate baseball TEAM instead of a family college fund.
By 2007 the Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Club was the laughing stock of North American sports. There was a well publicized fan walkout that summer, one that the corrupt regime and local media hoped no one would notice.
But Major League Baseball leadership sure did take notice.
The Pirates were an embarrassment and drag on the entire game. Hell, some considered the club a borderline criminal enterprise, pilfering the local community and humiliating the other owners.
Major League Baseball had to step in and takeover.
Bud Selig hired Frank Coonelly. MLB turned the Pirates around.
So, instead of praising analytics, wiz kids, advanced stats, voodoo pitching coaches(pharmacists) and other ******** TRUE Pirates fans should instead give all glory where it is due: to the hated Bud Selig, he saved the Pirates.

Sources?

Because if I recall correctly, at the beginning of 2007 Nutting became the principle owner. In mid-2007 (July-ish) McClatchy decided to resign. And Frank was hired in September, not exactly a long time if you want to properly go through the hiring process. You're not hiring a cashier or waiter, this someone you're entrusting a multi-million dollar team/business to. Forgive them for taking 2 months to decide.

On July 6, 2007, it was announced that McClatchy would step down as CEO after the 2007 MLB season. On September 8, 2007, Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports reported that baseball executive Frank Coonelly will be hired by the Pirates to replace McClatchy as CEO. This report comes just one day after the Pirates fired General Manager Dave Littlefield. The hiring of Coonelly was announced September 13. http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/2007/09/13/Pirates-to-make-it-official-today-Coonelly-is-club-s-new-president/stories/200709130282

 

[plaidchuck]

Lol just when you think you've heard it all..

 

[DJ Spinoza]

We're going to ride really hard into the antinomies of comparing different professional sports. There just are not reasonable metrics for doing this - pretending otherwise and pitting one against the other is nothing more and nothing less than exerting personal preference and dressing it up as an argument, or worse, an astounding conspiracy theory.

 

[ColePens]

The idea of the OP was just to discuss the topic. Being in the city, I just judge the vibe. I don't think there is any real way to find the answer. We can all just speculate and give our opinion.