Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salud Thread - Where We Talk About Size & ED

[Randy Butternubs]

Last few posts:

Nah, that's not it. I just don't expect Hextall to be a short-term focused GM, nor do I think this is a short-term organization anymore. Even no-brainer moves like seeing Rust sent out for a Kap or Zucker-like return in order to recoup futures with an asset that's 100% walking a calendar year from now, or shuffling things about to grab a decent goalie in FA since there are several available. It's not gonna happen because the team is comfortable, if not confident, where it's at. If something falls into our lap, sure, I expect the team to make a move, but we're not going out and searching for new guys or aggressively shopping any of our players/assets.

It's just the constant, repetitive, identical bitching and whining about inaction when the team clearly had intent behind hiring a GM known for patience and building. Maybe there's a reason we went after one of the more highly regarded free agent GMs around the league that has a polar opposite approach from the idiotic, gunslinger style of the previous GM who spent assets and overpaid for guys like there was no tomorrow.

If anything, only one of us is having a hard time accepting the likely course of action this organization is going to follow for the next several years as the era plays itself to a close, and the window already being firmly shut. Your stance is as stubborn as the coach you can't stand, with your inability to realize or accept that this team's on cruise control from here on out, or for at least this season, and has publicly said as much. They're happy with Jarry/DeSmith, they're happy with Sullivan and think he's a fantastic coach, they're happy with a supporting cast despite none of these guys being able to get it done when it matters. Accept it or don't, up to you.

Yeah, it'd be great if the team picked a lane and stuck to it--whether it be sell off assets and rebuild, or perform the major surgery needed to the roster (wings, goalie) and getting a new coach to try and vie for one last Cup--but I'm not gonna muddy up the forum with constant bitching about Hextall because I simply can't grasp or accept that realistically, the team has decided it's done doing anything of note and is more than happy letting the current roster play it out, collecting the last bit of cash from the era before the rebuild.

Some of us have desk jobs that allow us to post on here while on the clock. I can post on here and enjoy the summer enough as it is!

Call me crazy but if Zucker is available to Seattle, and they want to ice a good team, then they have to take him. He would fit their profile perfectly, he makes a little bit of money but people are acting like he is signed for 9 mil for like 6 years. He is making 5.5 mil for 2 years.

He can come in and play on their top line and top PP. He plays a well rounded game and would have to be one of the better players available. He could be their Neal or Karlsson, circa Vegas 2017. If he doesn't work out I think they can easily retain money and get decent returns back for him.

He also is in the same realm PPG wise as David Perron, Debrincat, and Pacioretty which I wouldn't label as elite.

Guentzel is also 9th because he missed about 30 more games. 5 less points in that sample.

I advocated for Guentzel for Tkachuk earlier in the year. I'm not completely against it. I just see some concerns about Tkachuk especially given his playoff performances.

I think you're the one who pointed out that Marchand playoff goal stat.

Which is why we need to protect him and gasp, try him somewhere else in the lineup next year. This is why it was beyond incompetent to not try this during last season.

Yes, but Marchand was able to be effective in the playoffs as a top six winger in 2010.

Tkachuk has never been effective in the playoffs. Can it change? Yes, short sample and all of that. But the issue is he's actively hurting his team in two of the playoffs.

Ultimately, if we had better assets and could afford Tkachuk for a future package I'd be much more keen because he'd be playing 2nd fiddle behind Guentzel who if he's given lighter d coverage probably makes the other team pay for it.

The issue is the package is probably Jake for Tkachuk.

I'd be targeting a slightly less productive but bigger net front style player in return for Guentzel. That's Tkachuk to a T. Add in his ability to legit create offense from the corners and around the net and sprinkle his agitating qualities, he's worth the risk IMO.

Obviously, if you can add a guy like that without using Guentzel, sweet. But I don't see it. Too many other teams have better prospect pools. Not many would theoretically be willing to trade a productive player like Jake.

Speaking of Tkachuks, wasn't there a rumor at some point that Keith was coming to the Pens? Or was that Kariya? Or both?

@Pens x

I'd take Tkachuk for Jake for the pure entertainment value alone. Similar players in terms of production but Jake's just so f***ing boring. At least if Tkachuk isn't producing huge numbers, he'll be annoying the shit out of the opposition and causing some havoc. When Jake isn't producing, he's miserable defensively and just kind of exists.

Oddly enough, this popped up re: Tkachuk.

If all Calgary can get for a ~24yr old Tkachuk is a battered ~30yr old Tarasenko, I dunno, man. That seems bad to me.

The hard T "Tah-chuck".

You speak with great authority and certainty that very little will happen, almost as if the off season already happened.

I still have a shred of hope that sleepy knows he can’t rely on our goalies next season. Also, Hextall was canned in Philly largely for sticking with an awful coach. I really hope he was told he can’t fire coach clown or wow, he failed to learn from past mistakes. Burke and Sleepy have to know that the top 6 wingers need a change as well.

Signing a free agent goalie and making a trade isnt unreasonable. Signing a goalie this off season is very easy.

Then cue Jake tearing it up in Calgary and Tkachuk looking like James Neal with the cheap shot bullshit.

This is boring. Take care.

Haha agreed.

Go Pens

Probably the biggest concern I'd have with Tkachuk is his contract. I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice some production for some of the other stuff he would bring, but he's already making $1M more than Guentzel and will be due a new contract. Does it make sense to spend millions more in cap to have less production? I don't know. Maybe, but it's a huge risk and given Guentzel has worked amazingly well with both Crosby and Malkin, I can't see Hextall pulling that trigger.

If they could build something around Rust or McCann and maybe add POJ or something?

Right, so since that's subjective, it's more useful to talk about his contributions in concrete terms, like top 10 production at his position...which he has. At age 23.



Anybody who's heard my spiels about Kessel knows I value durability too.

And obviously, one was playing with Crosby while the other played with Calgary's centers.



I think there's risk associated with any deal moving Guentzel. He's a great winger. But Tkachuk is on the short list of wingers I'd move him for, given what he could bring this team.

I would only move for Tkachuk if he expressed interest in staying. Not trading Jake for a guy who wants to peace out after a year.

He is an RFA.

Who will take at least 9 million to sign. If he doesn't want to stick around he could still make it very tough and not worth it.

Agreed. I think people overrate what Tkachuk actually does and are valuing his performance based on Sportsnet chatter.

Its hard to take anything you say seriously when you call the new GM "sleepy", its pretty immature and ruins any points you try to make

It doesn’t matter what I call him, most of the board is fine with the dont do anything to improve the obvious holes narrative. Hextall wasn’t hired to help the team in the short team, even if it’s so obvious what they need to do; am I right?

It’s just like last off season when the majority of the board defended Jank, Sceviour/Laff, Rodrigues, BART as the bottom six. Like how could you not see those 6 would be a joke? Many people probably still think BART is a legit third line.

I feel the same way this off season when seemingly most people are cool with the team standing pat and defending our crap coach.

Has the goalie market ever been flooded with so many players? Literally close your eyes and pick someone and he would be better than Jarry. Hopefully some of these guys played for the Kings or Flyers so that Hextall knows who they are. If you are unable to sign a free agent goalie this summer, you shouldn’t be a GM.

The only thing I really want done is Rust shipped out for a Kapanen/Zucker-like return. Mid-1st rounder and a good prospect.

Thing is, nobody even disagrees with PensX. They're arguing with f***ing phantoms. Just bitching and moaning to hear their own voice. Everyone, like down to the last person, probably agrees this team needs some form of change. Some of us think more major moves are needed, but to my knowledge nobody is like "Yo, this team rocks! Cup is on the way baybeeeeee!"

The disparity here is that PensX just can't wrap their head around the fact that this team has said, verbatim, they're happy with where they stand on everything. Coaching, goalies, skaters. Everything is peachy. Whether they actually believe it, I doubt it, but that says the team is fully prepared to ride this thing out with minimal to no changes whatsoever. At the very least, until we know for certain what the deal is with Geno's knee. There's no real point in stomping our feet and demanding action, or throwing around stupid facebook boomer nicknames like Sleepy--as if that's the f***ing height of cleverness or something. PensX just can't grasp that, or simply refuses to, because it'd take away their one schtick--bitching about the GM's inaction.

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[Pens x]

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[Tom Hanks]

So now we understand why @Randy Butternubs girlfriend is pissed when he says he’ll be a FEW minutes late

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[66-30-33]

What would it take to get Wood and Zacha out of NJ? Rust (with extention) and what else?

Zacha can play LW and C, Malkin is out for a while so Zacha and Carter are the 2C and 3C.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Seems appropriate given the Tkachuk talk and the thread title

 

[ChaosAgent]

Seems appropriate given the Tkachuk talk and the thread title

Is that just about the Heinz ketchup or about position of said Ketchup bottle and its implications for Long Pants Hockey?

 

[Zirakzigil]

The Tkachuk talk is a complete joke, some random ex NHLer runs his mouth off and people freak out. Just about every Flames insider and their dog stated these rumors were hilariously inaccurate. Pat Steinberg put it best when he said that yeah Tkachuk was not happy his minutes were cut and he shouldnt of been. He had some really garbage stretches and has to be better.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Is that just about the Heinz ketchup or about position of said Ketchup bottle and its implications for Long Pants Hockey?

 

[wheelz87]

Who says no..
McCann for Fleury (retained)

 

[Gurglesons]

Who says no..
McCann for Fleury (retained)

Why though?

 

[Pens x]

Why though?

Fleury is not amused.

 

[wheelz87]

Why though?

Vegas needs a center. I know McCann isn’t great but he’s the best ‘available’ we have. Freakin chandler stephenson is playing 1c there I mean come on. How much longer is Vegas going to employ fleury and lehner? Clearly deboer prefers lehner.

It’s not something I’m necessarily advocating for, for the record. Just think fleury does end up here again one day. We’re at a crossroads with our goaltending situation right now. You want to go for it with Sid/Geno/Tang for another couple years.. have to ask if Jarry is that guy.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Clearly deboer prefers lehner.

So clearly that hes played MAF almost every game? Cmon.....

Lehner is their guy long term and I can easily see MAF moving before expansion, but lets not act like hes not the guy in net right now.

 

[Pens x]

have to ask if Jarry is that guy.

Hes not. Just sign one of the many free agent goalies. Again, if you need a goalie, which we clearly do, this off season is a great opportunity to sign a free agent.

It’s such an easy fix.

GoTTa StAY tHe COurSe

 

[Empoleon8771]

Who says no..
McCann for Fleury (retained)

Both sides say no.

Vegas can't eat that much dead cap space and the Penguins shouldn't be trading McCann for a goalie.

 

[LOGiK]

Fleury is not amused.

Too bad that camera wasn't 1foot higher you could almost see the guy in the grey sweatshirt's o face... hah!

 

[LOGiK]

delete

 

[pistolpete11]

What goalies are going to be exposed in the ED? I have a feeling that Seattle and Vegas will have a deal worked out where Seattle will select someone of Vegas' choosing and then trade them to Vegas for Lehner/Fleury. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't imagine there's a better goalie that will be left unprotected. At least a better proven goalie.

 

[Pens x]

What goalies are going to be exposed in the ED? I have a feeling that Seattle and Vegas will have a deal worked out where Seattle will select someone of Vegas' choosing and then trade them to Vegas for Lehner/Fleury. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't imagine there's a better goalie that will be left unprotected. At least a better proven goalie.

Khudobin will be available as well.

It’s comical that a fair amount of posters here were worried that Seattle would take DeSmith not too long ago.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What goalies are going to be exposed in the ED? I have a feeling that Seattle and Vegas will have a deal worked out where Seattle will select someone of Vegas' choosing and then trade them to Vegas for Lehner/Fleury. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't imagine there's a better goalie that will be left unprotected. At least a better proven goalie.

Vegas is exempt from the expansion draft this year.

 

[LOGiK]

What goalies are going to be exposed in the ED? I have a feeling that Seattle and Vegas will have a deal worked out where Seattle will select someone of Vegas' choosing and then trade them to Vegas for Lehner/Fleury. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't imagine there's a better goalie that will be left unprotected. At least a better proven goalie.

Maybe muff will make history and be expansion drafted into being the face of yet another franchise.
He'd probably like Seattle more than the desert.

 

[LOGiK]

Vegas is exempt from the expansion draft this year.

Aww damn... and I just posted he'd get picked.


While we are on that subject... why tf exactly are they exempt after getting to the stanley cup finals, making playoffs, lost in conference finals, currently in conference finals...
Also with 1st, 3rd, 1st, 2nd regular season finishes and in their 4th season.

After 3 seasons they should be considered as a normal regular NHL franchise.
How long are they exempt? It's not like they have expansions every year... they should be included in this one.

 

[pistolpete11]

Vegas is exempt from the expansion draft this year.

I know. I think you misunderstood my point.

Vegas would say "Hey Seattle, take this guy from Team X and we will trade you Lehner/MAF for him."

 

[Pens x]

I dunno, having good goaltending is crucial, so I could see Vegas keeping both.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Khudobin will be available as well.

It’s comical that a fair amount of posters here were worried that Seattle would take DeSmith not too long ago.

Yeah now we should be protecting him.