Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - I got a faulty parachute

[Flying Dego]

I think what some people are alluding to is how banged up the team is right now. Different trains of thought here. It's ALL speculative of course.

- Do we even make the playoffs with 3-4 months of having an incomplete roster? What if a Murray trade netted you someone like Hall, even as a rental? Or Nylander?

- Does Jarry continue solid NHL-level performances? Can that be gambled upon? Is gambling upon Jarry, in a potential playoff scenario with the added top-6 F/top-4 D - better or worse than having Murray here?

Bottom line is the Metro is (per usual) going to be the tightest division in hockey, and we have a couple guys doing nothing for us (Galchenyuk/Bjugstad/Schultz), a couple of potential redundancies (Jarry/Murray, Lafferty/ZAR), a potentially huge draft coming up, and decisions to make (both sooner AND later).

It's interesting and I'm sure everyone will vary on the correct path. I fall towards your line of thinking. I would see how the next few months go with goalies.

Some view Jarry as this unproven guy but he's been a pro for a little while working on his play between the A and NHL. I'm also a huge believer that our goalies will look the part depending on the team in front of them.

Back in Murray's first run, 2016, we asked him to do very little as we dominated possession. I like constructing our team with unmatchable forwards and a solid team D. That makes any goalie look like a star.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

My guess is Palmieri would cost more than Hall right now. Hall's only available because they'll lose him anyway; that's not the case with Palmieri and if they lose Hall, they really can't afford to lose him as well.

Eh, I don't think so, man. Hall's one of those rare marquee players (i.e. Hossa) in that even if he's a rental, he's going to bring a big price tag. Palmieri is a good player, but even with term, he's not going to bring back anything close to Taylor Hall's value imo.

Do the Penguins have a realistic chance at landing Hall?

Probably not due to the divisional rivals thing, but that package is good enough value-wise to land any rental, imo.

I still think the only way we get Hall is through FA. Even if Hall goes to Shero and says he will only accept a deal to Pittsburgh, I don't think Shero would trade him here.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

NHL Mailbag: Is Taylor Hall worth the massive deal he's likely to get?

 

[Gurglesons]

I think what some people are alluding to is how banged up the team is right now. Different trains of thought here. It's ALL speculative of course.

- Do we even make the playoffs with 3-4 months of having an incomplete roster? What if a Murray trade netted you someone like Hall, even as a rental? Or Nylander?

- Does Jarry continue solid NHL-level performances? Can that be gambled upon? Is gambling upon Jarry, in a potential playoff scenario with the added top-6 F/top-4 D - better or worse than having Murray here?

Bottom line is the Metro is (per usual) going to be the tightest division in hockey, and we have a couple guys doing nothing for us (Galchenyuk/Bjugstad/Schultz), a couple of potential redundancies (Jarry/Murray, Lafferty/ZAR), a potentially huge draft coming up, and decisions to make (both sooner AND later).

Have a starter and a strong back up is not a redundancy. Galchenyuk just iced the game against the best statistical team in the West.

Our roster is fine minus Bjugstad. I’d trade Schultz in February depending on his skill but don’t really care anyway.

 

[Jesse]

The GM just had some choice words for Glachenyuk. Story coming shortly.

Edit, Updated: Alex Galchenyuk not a lineup lock when Penguins get healthy

GMJR essentially saying he doesn't have a reserved roster spot when everyone gets healthy.

 

[Trade]

The GM just had some choice words for Glachenyuk. Story coming shortly.

did he rip into Galchenyuk and Lafferty for only getting one point each in their 12 minutes of collective icetime last night?

 

[Turin]

The GM just had some choice words for Glachenyuk. Story coming shortly.

Edit, Updated: Alex Galchenyuk not a lineup lock when Penguins get healthy

GMJR essentially saying he doesn't have a reserved roster spot when everyone gets healthy.

Nothing controversial there. The only parts that sounded remotely spicy were the editorializing, not anything JR said. Which is good I guess.

 

[T1K]

If Jarry somehow holds onto the starters role, then has a big playoff... maybe then you talk about moving Murray instead of handing him a sizable deal.

However, it’s a long season and we have to see how this plays out.

Things could be completely different in a couple months.

I agree. Ideally I’d like to see how this plays out through the course of the season.

Having said that, I wouldn’t hesitate to have Murray involved in a trade for Taylor Hall - assuming we have enough cap to extend him.

 

[Turin]

I agree. Ideally I’d like to see how this plays out through the course of the season.

Having said that, I wouldn’t hesitate to have Murray involved in a trade for Taylor Hall - assuming we have enough cap to extend him.

You wouldn’t hesitate to trade Murray to a division rival in order to sign a winger soon exiting his prime, with questionable durability at times to a mega deal? You wouldn’t hesitate at all to do that?

 

[T1K]

You wouldn’t hesitate to trade Murray to a division rival in order to sign a winger soon exiting his prime, with questionable durability at times to a mega deal? You wouldn’t hesitate at all to do that?

He’s 28, he has plenty of years left. Who cares after Sid and Geno retire? I think he would fit in well here. The whole division rival thing doesn’t bother me, the Devils are going nowhere.

 

[Jesse]

Nothing controversial there. The only parts that sounded remotely spicy were the editorializing, not anything JR said. Which is good I guess.

I dunno man saying that the guy you just got in a trade for one of your star players doesn't have a guaranteed spot in the lineup is pretty spicy.

 

[Flying Dego]

What's the predictions here for players shuttled out by the deadline? Curious what people think we can get to better bolster the roster.

Chucky (likely)
Bjugs (maybe)
Schultz (less likely)
Simon (less likely)




Murray (....no chance don't start a crusade)

 

[Empoleon8771]

Edit: taking it to the other thread.

 

[Flying Dego]

Edit: taking it to the other thread.

Guentzel-Crosby-Kahun
?-Geno-Rust

McCann is a tough one for me bc I like him in the 3C role for better center depth but he could fit on LW up front. I'd say either a LW or 3C is what JR will look for.

We could try Bjugs on the wing, not a fan of him as a C. Still think he doesn't fit well but not sure how we move him exactly.

 

[Riptide]

We have 3 goalies who have proven to be NHL-capable goalies. Honestly not one of them has proven to be a true #1 over the stretch of a season.

Umm... Murray posted above average numbers last season. If 29-14-5 and .920 / 2.66 numbers doesn't work for you, then you have some unreasonably high and very unrealistic expectations for the type of numbers you want out of a #1 goalie.

 

[molon labe]

Umm... Murray posted above average numbers last season. If 29-14-5 and .920 / 2.66 numbers doesn't work for you, then you have some unreasonably high and very unrealistic expectations for the type of numbers you want out of a #1 goalie.

Mike Condon played 55 games in 2015-2016 on a mediocre Canadiens team and put up .903 %.

It's hypocritical of any of us to use one decent season of Murray as a means to state he's a tried and true #1 goalie in the NHL. He's got an injury history as rich as his two great postseason performances. I've loved the guy here but I'm not eager to extend him to some lengthy contract when the position of goalie is so volatile AND we have two other guys who've proven they can play at the NHL level. Simply because Jarry hasn't been given 50 starts doesn't mean he can't do it (seriously what argument is there he couldn't?)... not only that it's hard to argue that any of Murray's positive stats have had anything to do with his performance beyond the team/system in front of him. So long as we don't stick a shiv in net, the success of the Penguins won't begin or end with the performance of the goalie - it'll be on how hard the forward and defensive groups work in Sully's system.

 

[Riptide]

He’s 28, he has plenty of years left. Who cares after Sid and Geno retire? I think he would fit in well here. The whole division rival thing doesn’t bother me, the Devils are going nowhere.

Define "plenty". Because I'd be surprised if Hall is worth 8m+ in 3 years. His entire game is based on his speed/mobility and in his 9 yr career he's only played 75+ games three times (75, 76, 82). Hell even in the lockout year he couldn't play a full season. That's just a recipe for a disaster.

 

[Riptide]

Mike Condon played 55 games in 2015-2016 on a mediocre Canadiens team and put up .903 %.

It's hypocritical of any of us to use one decent season of Murray as a means to state he's a tried and true #1 goalie in the NHL. He's got an injury history as rich as his two great postseason performances. I've loved the guy here but I'm not eager to extend him to some lengthy contract when the position of goalie is so volatile AND we have two other guys who've proven they can play at the NHL level. Simply because Jarry hasn't been given 50 starts doesn't mean he can't do it (seriously what argument is there he couldn't?)... not only that it's hard to argue that any of Murray's positive stats have had anything to do with his performance beyond the team/system in front of him. So long as we don't stick a shiv in net, the success of the Penguins won't begin or end with the performance of the goalie - it'll be on how hard the forward and defensive groups work in Sully's system.

Jesus Christ.

He's played 3 full NHL seasons as a starter. He's posted #1 caliber (and above league average) numbers in two of those 3 seasons. That's far from only having "one decent season".

16/17: 32-10-4, .923 / 2.41
17/18: 27-16-3, .907 / 2.92
18/19: 29-14-6, .919 / 2.69

What argument is there that he could? If that's the angle you're going to use.

 

[molon labe]

Jesus Christ.

He's played 3 full NHL seasons as a starter. He's posted #1 caliber (and above league average) numbers in two of those 3 seasons. That's far from only having "one decent season".

16/17: 32-10-4, .923 / 2.41
17/18: 27-16-3, .907 / 2.92
18/19: 29-14-6, .919 / 2.69

What argument is there that he could? If that's the angle you're going to use.

The argument is that Matt Murray returns a legitimate top-4 D or top-6 F right now. That the gamble of Jarry + that help > Matt Murray, with his current performance @3.75 - and future unknown at 6M+.

Who's better? Completely subjective. Who's got the better contract? Well - Jarry in a landslide. A gamble is a gamble, and it doesn't matter if we have Lundqvist in net or DeSmith come playoffs...they have about equal likelihood of both catching fire and impacting THIS team. I'm not trying to say that Murray sucks, but paying the goalie position based on some silly #1 notion is an antiquated way of thinking (and hasn't worked out for ANY team recently). I'd much rather have two guys making (combined) HALF of what this alleged #1 goalie makes - especially when he's proven to be prone to ups and downs / injuries...the same as any other goalie. It's a stupid bet.

Again, how much did Rinne's numbers mean against an offensively-lethal Penguins team? Bobs? Lundqvist? Jones? Remember how they were all too hot for us to handle? The evidence that offensive weapons > one goalie has been right in front of us for a number of years/playoff series yet we still cling to the idea that letting our #1 guy go is a huge mistake. All we need is a guy to hold the fort. Not do too much (Fleury) - but just enough to let our offensive weapons go to work and for Sully's system to imprint itself upon the ice. Do we need 6M over 6-7 years for that? Probably not..

 

[Riptide]

I'm not trying to say that Murray sucks, but paying the goalie position based on some silly #1 notion is an antiquated way of thinking (and hasn't worked out for ANY team recently).

Define this please. Because I can think of several teams just in the past couple of season's it's worked out for rather well. Boston, Washington and Vegas, all of whom went to the finals over the past 2 seasons, and all of whom have a well paid and well established #1 goalie. The only team over the past 2 years who went to the finals with a platoon is STL, and thats only because Allan lost his starting job to Binnington who then carried the load the rest of the season.

 

[molon labe]

Define this please. Because I can think of several teams just in the past couple of season's it's worked out for rather well. Boston, Washington and Vegas, all of whom went to the finals over the past 2 seasons, and all of whom have a well paid and well established #1 goalie. The only team over the past 2 years who went to the finals with a platoon is STL, and thats only because Allan lost his starting job to Binnington who then carried the load the rest of the season.

Boston is the only one of those three that didn't rely on their backup for a stretch though? Even then Rask has had some tremendous up and downs. The fact that those 3 goalies (Fleury, Rask, Holtby) caught fire is not indicative of them being a "#1 goalie"...because all 3 had mediocre season stretches AND playoffs before that. For every #1 that gets to the finals there's guys like Anderson, Binnington, Murray, etc who are either "weak #1s" or unproven "#1s" who also get their teams there.

Some clubs rely more on their goalie than others as well. The Penguins system isn't geared towards stay at home defenders and a strong goalie.

The argument would be different if those clubs (or others) gambled big on big name goalies (that's all they are...beyond the titled "#1"), who never make the playoffs but when they do - those goalies perform well every time. It's overrated and overanalyzed... good goalies are just as prone to a 'bad playoffs' as unknown goalies are to 'good playoffs' - because in large part their performance is moreso about the team in front of them. The platoon you mentioned is a poster-child situation to the goalie position in the NHL. Allen/Elliott were the bees knees of the NHL until they weren't. They performed as well as they did that year because they had a Hitchcock system in front of them loaded with big heavy forwards and defensemen. Any surprise they pretty much sucked or were average when they left?