Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: FA Begins & So Does Fleury Watch

[Dipsy Doodle]

You really need to get out more

I really believe that 95% of fans who made comments like these don't actually pay attention to the statuses of other teams.

I'd be interested to see which teams have lower scoring bottom 6s based on last year's production. I imagine it's an awful short list.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd be interested to see which teams have lower scoring bottom 6s based on last year's production. I imagine it's an awful short list.

I can name at least a dozen teams with worse bottom-6 groups than Pittsburgh, without even thinking about it.

 

[mpp9]

I think that's how one could justify using him in a 4th line role. JR penciling in Jank and Erod on the 3rd line is lunacy.

Our bottom 6 scoring, if we don't add anyone before the season, is a total mess. Arguably the worst in the league.

Na. Nowhere near the worst. My issue is its too average. And average ain't enough with 87 and 71 no longer in their prime years.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Wouldn't we be counting on more or less every single "sexy" 3C target to overcome some kind of hurdle, anyway? Just for a hell of a lot more money?

Is it such an insane idea to ask the same from Jankowski? Like... Huala is an example. Amazing player uh... that one year! Lots of injuries and uncertainty since. And yet I'd wager most everyone would be nodding their heads in a satisfied manner were he signed. Jankowski (and Erod for that matter) have both shown they can be productive players (at least for our needs) in the recent past but somehow that's irrelevant to their chances of finding a 20-40 point level again? And for league minimum?

Help me understand.

Haula produced at a better place last year than Jankowski did in his career best season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I can name at least a dozen teams with worse bottom-6 groups than Pittsburgh, without even thinking about it.

Name the less productive ones from last year. Without the editorializing that comes with assuming all our guys will bounce back.

 

[Peat]

Young players having down years is pretty common and they mostly rebound from them. I'm not saying that means everything is fairy farts and lollypops with Jankowski, but I wouldn't be that bothered by him bad in a bad situation.

Re two points form last thread

@SomeDude - The problem with McCann is that all he does is shoot (usually from distance) and that makes it pretty hard to build offence when a line is relying on him to set things up. If we don't have playmakers for him to function with, he's probably going to be very erratic at best.

Which is unfortunate as there isn't really one there, which leads me to...

@CrosbyMalkin - The belief that Rutherford is relying on Poulin comes from looking at the bottom six and seeing pretty much nobody with both skill and vision. Poulin, if NHL ready, is immediately the best playmaker there by a distance. Given how much we've heard about the org being really high on Poulin, it feels like they're relying on him to come in and make it - either at RW, or at LW and forcing McCann to C (or to be traded).

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Haula produced at a better place last year than Jankowski did in his career best season.

Well I'd hope... he's the better player!

But I guess where I'm at is "how much better" and "is it worth the extra 2-3ish million to find out?"

I fully understand the value of solid depth lines but this place has always taken it too far. I agree with Empo that Staal and HBK broke ya'll.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yinzer communion.

Wow, that actually gave me the heaves. Well done.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Name the less productive ones from last year. Without the editorializing that comes with assuming all our guys will bounce back.

You're the one making the claim that the Penguins have one of the least productive bottom-6 groups in hockey. You're the one that should be showing the work, it's not my job to do the research to refute your wrong claims.

And I like how you're just completely ignoring defense, as if there's no value in defense out of your bottom-6.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well I'd hope... he's the better player!

But I guess where I'm at is "how much better" and "is it worth the extra 2-3ish million to find out?"

I fully understand the value of solid depth lines but this place has always taken it too far. I agree with Empo that Staal and HBK broke ya'll.

It's worth the extra money to have a productive 3C instead of one that got outscored by Lucic and Rinaldo last year.

The lesson to take from Staal and Bones isn't that we're irrationally obsessed with getting a good 3C. It's that our greatest successes came with a good 3C, and our biggest failures came when we didn't have one.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Wouldn't we be counting on more or less every single "sexy" 3C target to overcome some kind of hurdle, anyway? Just for a hell of a lot more money?

Is it such an insane idea to ask the same from Jankowski? Like... Huala is an example. Amazing player uh... that one year! Lots of injuries and uncertainty since. And yet I'd wager most everyone would be nodding their heads in a satisfied manner were he signed. Jankowski (and Erod for that matter) have both shown they can be productive players (at least for our needs) in the recent past but somehow that's irrelevant to their chances of finding a 20-40 point level again? And for league minimum?

Help me understand.

The concerns with Haula should be health. As a player, he’s more dynamic, has 4 seasons with a better ppg than Jankowski’s best and his peak season suggests an ability to step up and play with talent. Rodrigues has an interesting history of producing decently but I’d loathe to count on it when they’re counting on so many “if it works out we’ll be fine” cases. I wouldn’t be happy counting on Haula’s health but I consider it preferable to “hey, he might bounce back into an alright 3C even if he’s bland.”

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You're the one making the claim that the Penguins have one of the least productive bottom-6 groups in hockey. You're the one that should be showing the work, it's not my job to do the research to refute your wrong claims.

And I like how you're just completely ignoring defense, as if there's no value in defense out of your bottom-6.

I'm not the one who said I could rifle off a dozen without thinking about it, but okay.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lol Bonino was USELESS here outside of when his ass was getting carried by Kessel and Hagelin. Get this crap of "we only had good times when we had a good 3C!" out of here. He was a perfectly average 3C that got carried by an elite winger.

I'm not the one who said I could rifle off a dozen without thinking about it, but okay.

You were the one who claimed that they were one of the worst. Show your work. And oh yeah, make sure you show why it should be expected that those guys will produce at the same levels next year as they did last year.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Like OK... normal brain shit = blowing whatever wad you have to bring in some unknown 2ish/3ish center in FA.

big brain shit = rolling with more or less what you got and swinging a trade in-season for a nice top six RW to bump some quality down the lineup like Rust or Kap.

Problem solved... AND you potentially solve some consistency, chemistry and possibly even powerplay issues.

Where's my damned office already?!?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's that our greatest successes came with a good 3C, and our biggest failures came when we didn't have one.

There are so many ways to win. Look around the league and the last few Cup winners. Don't fall into that trap.

It's the same nonsense as "wE cAnT Do TeH PoWeRpLaY wItHopUt HoRnY!1!"

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Young players having down years is pretty common and they mostly rebound from them. I'm not saying that means everything is fairy farts and lollypops with Jankowski, but I wouldn't be that bothered by him bad in a bad situation.

People have to stop calling 26 year old forwards with 3 seasons under their belt young players. It’s the same for McCann and Blueger. They really aren’t that young, they’re just not old. Blueger is more green but these aren’t 20 year olds or even defensemen or goalies,. Players can have down seasons but this isn’t a young player thing with someone like Jankowski.

 

[Shady Machine]

Lol Bonino was USELESS here outside of when his ass was getting carried by Kessel and Hagelin. Get this crap of "we only had good times when we had a good 3C!" out of here. He was a perfectly average 3C that got carried by an elite winger.



You were the one who claimed that they were one of the worst. Show your work. And oh yeah, make sure you show why it should be expected that those guys will produce at the same levels next year as they did last year.

Bonino was “useless” outside of HBK? Lol come on. I’m personally okay with trying out a few guys as bottom 6 centers and see where it shakes out because many of these guys have talent and upside (unlike the McKegg year). That said, you don’t need to shit on Bones to make your argument.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

I think that's how one could justify using him in a 4th line role. JR penciling in Jank and Erod on the 3rd line is lunacy.

Our bottom 6 scoring, if we don't add anyone before the season, is a total mess. Arguably the worst in the league.

I think that is hyperbolic. Last year the ZAR-Blueger-Tanev line played 3rd line duty for 95% of the games due to injuries and they had very impressive metrics in almost every category. In all accounts that was a very good shut down line. McCann is also a very good defensive player that brings good offense on a 3rd line and I wouldn't mind seeing Poulin get a shot. Jankowski can also be an effective 3rd line Center which he proved in his last two full years in the league. Last year he lost his playing time and was shuffled around but just two years ago he had 14 goals and 32 points while playing good defensively. All take that from my 3C. Pens have plenty of players that can play on a 3rd line and make a very strong one.

Pens will be fast and hard to play against. I love the players brought in this off-season and late last year. Zucker and Kapanen are huge improvement's over last years start of the season wingers in our top six and bring much more speed and skill than Simon and Galchenyk who we started with last year in those spots. How people can't see the vast improvement in our top six is astounding. Blueger is getting better and better and could very easily be an effective 3C and I would argue he already proved that last year going against other teams top lines and playing more defensive zone starts. Blueger's line did everything you would want in a shut down 3rd line. Tanev was amazing last year and a very good add and has played 3rd line and has had double digits goals most of his career.

The defense is also much better getting rid of Schultz who was actually worse than JJ last year and I can't believe he got $4 million a year. JJ is also gone and Matheson is a huge upgrade over him in every way. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised how good Matheson will do with the Pens if put with the right defense partner like Marino or the correct UFA defenseman hopefully still to come.

I am very comfortable going into this season with our great too 6 and players like McCann, Blueger, Tanev, Jankowski, Poulin, Sceviour, Rodriguez, and ZAR fighting for those 6 spots in the bottom 6. The only add I really want is a better RD for the 3rd pairing. If Rutherford pulls that out I will be very happy with this off-season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

There are so many ways to win. Look around the league and the last few Cup winners. Don't fall into that trap.

It's the same nonsense as "wE cAnT Do TeH PoWeRpLaY wItHopUt HoRnY!1!"

We've got a long track record to support the need for a good 3C.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

We've got a long track record to support the need for a good 3C.

Yeah well we also have a long track record of reaching hard and falling directly on our faces trying to find one...

I'm good not spending like 2-4M+ trying to figure that little riddle out.

 

[pistolpete11]

Wouldn't we be counting on more or less every single "sexy" 3C target to overcome some kind of hurdle, anyway? Just for a hell of a lot more money?

Is it such an insane idea to ask the same from Jankowski? Like... Huala is an example. Amazing player uh... that one year! Lots of injuries and uncertainty since. And yet I'd wager most everyone would be nodding their heads in a satisfied manner were he signed. Jankowski (and Erod for that matter) have both shown they can be productive players (at least for our needs) in the recent past but somehow that's irrelevant to their chances of finding a 20-40 point level again? And for league minimum?

Help me understand.

My sexy 3C pick was Wennberg, but I think it probably applies to Haula, Turris, etc...

Wennberg struggling is what we are hoping to get out of Jankowski. Wennberg clearing his hurdles, he is a borderline 2C who plays a good 2-way game. And most importantly for me, Wennberg is a playmaker which we still lack on L3 now. Maybe I don't know Jankowski well enough, but he's scored more goals than he's had assists in 2 of his 3 years in the NHL.

I'm not mad at the Jankowski (or E-Rod) signing because it is such low risk, but JR is taking the shotgun approach to the bottom 6 instead of the sniper approach. It would have cost more money, but I would have felt much better with McCann-Wennberg-Poulin/Tanev going into the season. Now, unless he's got something else up his sleeve, there's going to be a whole lot of hoping.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You were the one who claimed that they were one of the worst. Show your work. And oh yeah, make sure you show why it should be expected that those guys will produce at the same levels next year as they did last year.

I guess it's not so easy to list off a dozen without thinking.

 

[HandshakeLine]

People have to stop calling 26 year old forwards with 3 seasons under their belt young players. It’s the same for McCann and Blueger. They really aren’t that young, they’re just not old. Blueger is more green but these aren’t 20 year olds or even defensemen or goalies,. Players can have down seasons but this isn’t a young player thing with someone like Jankowski.

Eh, I dunno. I feel like players develop all over the map. Some never do. Some come out of the gate at 27 like they were top 5OA draft picks. So, while I don't really expect Jankowski to make some huge stride forward this year, I think being fairly confident that he will improve on an obvious outlier season isn't being a yinzer idiot like some would suggest. It's an educated guess, but one that's more likely than not, IMO.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah well we also have a long track record of reaching hard and falling directly on our faces trying to find one...

I'm good not spending like 2-4M+ trying to figure that little riddle out.

We're going to fail until we get it right.

 

[Shady Machine]

There are so many ways to win. Look around the league and the last few Cup winners. Don't fall into that trap.

It's the same nonsense as "wE cAnT Do TeH PoWeRpLaY wItHopUt HoRnY!1!"

There are more ways to win, but depth scoring is a must. I think JR has assembled an interesting collection of players with Jankowski and ERod back, in addition to upgrading on Sheary with Kap, but they are going to need a 3rd line to click because there isn’t an obvious candidate to drive the scoring down there.