Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread| 4 Days - TDL "Center" of Attention - Part III

[mpp9]

Zucker can get some goals around the net and is willing to go there, but he’s not anywhere near as aggressive a player as PH. As we are finding out now.

I wouldn’t have a problem with him if his production was shit for awhile but was being a menace on the forecheck and around the net.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Just trade some scraps for Bennett and see if/where he fits before taking a run at the Better Bennett™ in Laughton this offseason.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Doesn't Zucker still have his M-NTC? I can't see why he would allow a move to Buffalo.

Zucker has a 10 team NTC. Sure, we don't know exactly who he has on his NTC, but he can't have every team on his NTC. It may be safe to assume Buffalo is such a tire fire that they're on everyone's NTC, but Staal didn't put them on his NTC because he didn't think they'd want to trade for him. Look how that turned out for Staal.

With Zucker, I'd probably guess that he put mostly Canadian teams on his NTC. I think this is especially true due to COVID restrictions, my gut tells me that he would have been scared of being stuck in Canada away from his family in Minnesota. He didn't use his NTC to make himself untradeable last time, they weren't on his NTC at the time of the initial failed trade nor were they on his NTC when the trade was actually made (he had to revise his NTC between those two trades).

Complete speculation on my part: the 7 Canadian teams and Buffalo probably make up 8 of the 10 teams on his list. I get the vibe that Zucker is an ultra competitive player, so I think teams 9 and 10 may be bad teams. Maybe Detroit and Arizona as the other 2 teams? LA and Anaheim are probably worse than Arizona but I can't see a reasonable player putting LA or Anaheim on their NTC over Arizona, with how much of a shitshow the top of the Coyotes has been.

 

[JTG]

That was a pretty big message sent by the Isles. I think the additions of Zajac and Palms make them a REALLY good team, and the price was as low as I think we have seen in years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That was a pretty big message sent by the Isles. I think the additions of Zajac and Palms make them a REALLY good team, and the price was as low as I think we have seen in years.

I agree with you that prices are super low, but I disagree with what Palmieri and Zajac do for them. To me, Zajac and Palmieri are just adding more of what they already have. It's like the Penguins adding another PMD and another speedster 3rd line grinder. Like sure, it's a nice addition because adding good players is nice, but it's just adding more onto the pile of what you already have.

I don't think Palmieri and Zajac will have that big of impacts just because of how many other players they have for the same roles that these guys play in.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's a wild world when Travis Zajac is in a discussion about being a guy that turns a team into a really good team.

 

[66-30-33]

Palms/Zajac might not even work out for the Isles, will have to watch a few Isles games before the season ends and see how they are with that team. Pens thought they were getting a good player in Brassard but we got the start of the shit Brassard. Also those 2 don't mean shit come playoffs, look at Tampa on that godlike year only to get swept by Columbus in round 1.

 

[JTG]

I agree with you that prices are super low, but I disagree with what Palmieri and Zajac do for them. To me, Zajac and Palmieri are just adding more of what they already have. It's like the Penguins adding another PMD and another speedster 3rd line grinder. Like sure, it's a nice addition because adding good players is nice, but it's just adding more onto the pile of what you already have.

I don't think Palmieri and Zajac will have that big of impacts just because of how many other players they have for the same roles that these guys play in.

That is sort of a Lou team though. He's fine with his teams being a relatively similar. He could have used some more scoring pop, but I think those are two guys that can add some secondary scoring and defensive ability. NYI are already hard to score against. They just landed two of the better defensive forwards in the league. I think they can absolutely do some damage keeping scores low and having depth guys come through when they need them to. It was the NJD method of killing teams for years.

 

[JTG]

It's a wild world when Travis Zajac is in a discussion about being a guy that turns a team into a really good team.

When your team is looking to keep scores low, he is a big help.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

When your team is looking to keep scores low, he is a big help.

I don't know, man. I live in Jersey and have pretty much had to watch the Devils forever (blackout restrictions rock) but he's always seemed like the anti-Staal. Just sort of exists.

 

[Peat]

I agree with you that prices are super low, but I disagree with what Palmieri and Zajac do for them. To me, Zajac and Palmieri are just adding more of what they already have. It's like the Penguins adding another PMD and another speedster 3rd line grinder. Like sure, it's a nice addition because adding good players is nice, but it's just adding more onto the pile of what you already have.

I don't think Palmieri and Zajac will have that big of impacts just because of how many other players they have for the same roles that these guys play in.

I am curious about where they plan to play Palmieri. Flip him onto his opposite wing on Barzal's line? Their roster hole screamed LW, not RW.

 

[Ryder71]

Palms/Zajac might not even work out for the Isles, will have to watch a few Isles games before the season ends and see how they are with that team. Pens thought they were getting a good player in Brassard but we got the start of the shit Brassard. Also those 2 don't mean shit come playoffs, look at Tampa on that godlike year only to get swept by Columbus in round 1.

Sounds like sour grapes. What should Islanders do, not try to improve? Whether it works or not remains to be seen. But I think the Isles improved themselves and like it or not that's what any team that fancies themselves as a contender should do.

 

[Ryder71]

That was a pretty big message sent by the Isles. I think the additions of Zajac and Palms make them a REALLY good team, and the price was as low as I think we have seen in years.

Absolutely, I applaud what they did. It may or may not work but relative to what they gave up I think they did well for themselves. Lots of sour grapes going on here. Lots of people who can't acknowledge a good move from another team when they see it. So jealous, so envious, so absurd.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's a wild world when Travis Zajac is in a discussion about being a guy that turns a team into a really good team.

Even Palmieri falls into that realm.

Remember when big trades used to be like Hossa, Iginla, Carter, Gaborik?

Now they are middle six wingers and 3Cs that are viewed as "going all in" or "things we should be scared about".

 

[Ryder71]

Wull... ''the islanders didn't really improve themselves''

but say.. it was the pens who got those dudes... ''bring on the cup... hextalls da best''


So sad, really sad!

 

[Gurglesons]

Wull... ''the islanders didn't really improve themselves''

but say.. it was the pens who got those dudes... ''bring on the cup... hextalls da best''


So sad, really sad!

Maybe it's the fact that we've seen how well big trade deadline deals actually pan out.

 

[Ryder71]

Maybe it's the fact that we've seen how well big trade deadline deals actually pan out.

Well, there's only ONE team that wins a cup each year, so most such moves won't put a team over. The point is the Isles are trying to put their team in a better position to win. And I, unlike the majority here who are just god awful, vile individuals, actually respect that.

Tampa got Coleman last season and it helped them. Pittsburgh has made deals that helped put them over the top as well in the past.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes it rains.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Hmm. So one moment, it's our PP is awful. But the next, it's full of talent so scoring a bunch of goals on it only means so much. A little inconsistent.

The Pens PP is underperforming relative to its talent level - this should not be a mediocre club on the man advantage. Bur it's still a helluva lot better than NJ's.

See also how you resolutely reject all signs of how our PP has been pretty good for some extended periods when players have actually been fit over the last couple of seasons, but run to make excuses on Palmieri (funny how we don't mention Taylor Hall on Palmieri's offensive support) and his down periods.

Hall averaged 31 points a season for NJ in '18-'19 and '19-'20 - the only 2 years he played with Palmieri in the timeframe you selected - due to injury and trade. So not really a factor those years.

For the record, I'm not the one who brought up the quality of team affecting a player's production, you did...and in reference to a much better team than the Devils.

See, I'm not even against the idea that Palmieri has been a very good PP goal scorer and could/probably will be again. But the contortions you will go through to discredit our power play, and bump up Palmieri's prowess, are... well, something. It's not like there aren't good argument on both scores, but everything against just disappears into a black hole.

Our PP is severely underperforming relative to what it had been when we had a legitimate threat on the left side to open up the ice. Palmieri has produced very well on the PP over an extended period despite playing for a very bad team with virtually no offensive support - he was NJ's highest scoring player last year and the year before.

I don't see what's so contentious about either statement.

Incidentally, and more to the point, the idea that Palmieri would fix the Kessel shaped hole on our PP is mildly questionable given how frequently Palmieri is stood in the slot or on the right wall on the PP. He can drift across to the left wall, but it's not his most common position or where most of his goals come from; he likes to stand in Geno's spot, nor Phil's, or work his way into Jake-esque goals. We'll see how NYI use him I guess.

Unfortunately, nobody we'd be able to afford will be able to replace what Kessel brought - that ship sailed. I agree that it's not his most common spot in NJ or where most of his goals came from. But Palmieri does have a wicked shot and he can unload it from the left circle, even if that hasn't been his bread and butter in NJ. May well be due to not having talents who can spread out the ice there, so he needs to get his nose dirty closer to the net.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Idk maybe we can also look at the Islanders roster and realize that they weren't missing a Zajac or Palmieri from their roster, so questioning if adding them really makes a difference is totally valid.

They needed a LWer to replace Lee as a net front guy more than anything. Hell, even just acquiring a top-9 LWer to bump Komarov out of the top-6 and Martin off the top PP unit would have been fine. Instead, they acquired another winger in the Eberle/Wahlstrom/Bailey mold and another defensive center in the Nelson/Pageau/Cizikas mold. While those pieces are good players, none are something that the NYI didn't have without them.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well, there's only ONE team that wins a cup each year, so most such moves won't put a team over. The point is the Isles are trying to put their team in a better position to win. And I, unlike the majority here who are just god awful, vile individuals, actually respect that.

Tampa got Coleman last season and it helped them. Pittsburgh has made deals that helped put them over the top as well in the past.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes it rains.

If we can get a Coleman, I'll be excited. Palms doesn't fit that realm and I don't think he even fits on their top PP which is where his value comes from.

Nelson, Pageau and Cizikas are all better centers in my opinion. So you're like sacrificing one of them to LW or putting Zajac at LW which just slows their bottom six down.

As a Pens fan I'm happy tbh. Palms going to Boston would've been worse for us.

 

[Andy99]

This summary brought to you by another poster...

“Some trade deadline rumblings, Penguins and league wide:

--Kingerski lists Mantha, Bennett, and Virtanen as the 3 players that should be top targets for the Penguins. Penguins would have to ship out salary plus a good prospect to land Mantha, reports are that Bennett's relationship with Calgary is much better under Sutter, and that Virtanen cost might be high (why, no idea) plus Vancouver cannot take much back as they have no cap space. The one thing I will say is, I believe Detroit was the team that most heavily scouted Pittsburgh this season, easily making 5-7 visits, with assistant GM Pat Verbeek making 2-3 of those trips. Detroit must have had their eye on someone from Pittsburgh, but will it lead to a deal?

--Sean Gentile just released a piece with some center options. Pretty good piece actualy.
----Cody Eakin - only mentioned him because his name popped up. Gentile stated to stay far, far away. His analytics were so bad some people thought they were looking at Jack Johnson charts.
----Vlad Namestnikov - Not overly physical but will use the body. Not sure of the price because he has another year left. Stated with a lot of draft capital in 2021, Wings might be more apt to take a 2022 pick. Maybe a 2022 4th and one of the Penguins goalie prospects (noted that Wings goalie pipeline is very weak).
----Luke Glendenning - Basically, said his defensive ability is overrated. Namestnikov actually has better shot suppression numbers and better, but not great offensive ability.
----Sam Bennett - mentioned how he ramps it up in the playoffs, but mentioned same thing that even though he requested a trade this year, he seems to be doing better and happy under Sutter in Calgary. Also strong feeling that Calgary severely overvalues him, especially as a player any acquiring team isn't likely to protect and at age 24, someone Seattle will likely have interest in.
----Scott Laughton - says Laughton is the best fit out of anyone he mentioned. Obviously says PIT-PHI lack of trading is a complication, and that they may have to find a 3rd team willing to take Pettersson for a high pick that then moves onto Philly(although he doesn't think Penguins would move Pettersson mid-season to do something like this).....or Hextall might have to strongly consider giving up the 2021 2nd round pick that he claims he won't.

My take on these is, if the Flyers would actually deal with us, I would move the 2021 2nd in a heartbeat for Laughton. Penguins will have the summer to try and move guys like Riikola, Pettersson, or even Zucker to pick up some extra draft capital.

--Add David Savard to the list of trade deadline scratches. Heavy interest in Savard, so he is being pulled from tonight's lineup.”

 

[JTG]

Even Palmieri falls into that realm.

Remember when big trades used to be like Hossa, Iginla, Carter, Gaborik?

Now they are middle six wingers and 3Cs that are viewed as "going all in" or "things we should be scared about".

There are two separate things you are touching on. This wasn't a "big fish" type deal where an elite talent is being exchanged, but it's a strong move by a team trying to get deeper and more stout defensively. I think the Isles identified their strength as a team, and they found two strong players to fit into what they want to do.

I think they are trying to do exactly what the Devils did and win those close games and try to choke teams out, and frankly, when whistles get swallowed it's probably the better way to go about things.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Just trade some scraps for Bennett and see if/where he fits before taking a run at the Better Bennett™ in Laughton this offseason.

Not happening. You guys really need to move past him.

 

[JTG]

Double post

 

[Gurglesons]

There are two separate things you are touching on. This wasn't a "big fish" type deal where an elite talent is being exchanged, but it's a strong move by a team trying to get deeper and more stout defensively. I think the Isles identified their strength as a team, and they found two strong players to fit into what they want to do.

I think they are trying to do exactly what the Devils did and win those close games and try to choke teams out, and frankly, when whistles get swallowed it's probably the better way to go about things.

That has never been Palmieri's game. I get the idea with Zajac, but tbh. I see him slowing that team down which excites me. We were already killing them with speed. Throwing off their top six by adding another RH shot in addition to Bailey and Eberle instead of adding a legit top six LW like Hall and leaving either their LW hole in the top nine with Komarov or one of Bailey or Eberle moved over sounds like a win for me.