Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salad Thread - ED of Concern

[Randy Butternubs]

29 days til the expansion draft.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I wonder if Seattle tries to go after the best players available in order to ice the best team, or tries to accumulate the most value asset-wise in an effort to flip guys.

Still curious about the idea brought up a week or so ago where hypothetically, Seattle wants two of our guys, so they select one and we have them select someone else from another team in order to flip that guy to us for the other Penguin player they're interested in, for a sorta expansion draft-driven three team deal. I doubt it, but that's fun to think about.

 

[Rakell67]

I wonder if Seattle tries to go after the best players available in order to ice the best team, or tries to accumulate the most value asset-wise in an effort to flip guys.

Still curious about the idea brought up a week or so ago where hypothetically, Seattle wants two of our guys, so they select one and we have them select someone else from another team in order to flip that guy to us for the other Penguin player they're interested in, for a sorta expansion draft-driven three team deal. I doubt it, but that's fun to think about.

Maybe they want to acquire someone with 2 last names?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Maybe they want to acquire someone with 2 last names?

I imagine Zucker's at or very near the top of their list. Petts is probably up there too. Cap constraints aren't really gonna be an issue so a guy like Zucker making a bit too much or a guy like Petts making a bit too much isn't as big a problem for them as opposed to us.

But I'd imagine any of our 4th liners are also probably on their radar too. Didn't Seattle scout us but suddenly stopped when TB got injured or am I thinking of another player? Either way, they're keenly interested in someone.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I imagine Zucker's at or very near the top of their list. Petts is probably up there too. Cap constraints aren't really gonna be an issue so a guy like Zucker making a bit too much or a guy like Petts making a bit too much isn't as big a problem for them as opposed to us.

But I'd imagine any of our 4th liners are also probably on their radar too. Didn't Seattle scout us but suddenly stopped when TB got injured or am I thinking of another player? Either way, they're keenly interested in someone.

You're remembering correctly. Them scouting and not scouting the Pens seemingly coincided with TB and his injury.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You're remembering correctly. Them scouting and not scouting the Pens seemingly coincided with TB and his injury.

Did that line up with someone like Zucker's injury too? I can't even really remember this past season, tbh.

 

[The Old Master]

I am guessing Tkachuk goes to the Sens to play with his brother.

if he wants out they will move him to any team but.

 

[Pens x]

I know dude, I know. "Do something Sleepy" It's not as simple as going and signing Ullmark or Raanta or whoever else. We'd have to find a taker for a goalie who just embarrassed himself and torpedoed his team's 1st round first. We'd have to find a trade partner who wants our scraps for a starting goalie, or tandem goalie--or we'd have to find a way to sign one of the FAs in a summer where we have almost no real cap room to work with and teams will be looking for goalies based on how important the position has been this playoffs.

It's been explained ad nauseum that this team's content where it's at; forwards, blueline, goalies and coach. Don't expect or hope for any significant moves, at least nothing significant enough to alter the downward trajectory this team's been on for years. Ownership got their Cups, they want to milk the era for as much cash as they can before we got a roster full of nobodies and people stop buying jerseys and showing up to games. Especially after a handful of Covid-affected years revenue-wise. That doesn't have anything to do with winning, it has everything to do with keeping the usual suspects together and rocking the boat as little as possible so as not to anger a fickle fanbase and potentially hurt revenue.

(For the record, I don't disagree. I'd like the team to pick a lane and commit to it; either blow it up and rebuild, or make changes to sort this boring, stale, predictable shitshow out. It's just not gonna happen. Minimal or lateral changes from here on out while we wait and see what the situation with Geno's knee is.)

Maybe you have to send DeSmith to the minors and eat his very small cap hit to sign another goalie. Don’t bring back ZAR and use the savings there for a goalie. We won’t be paying Bjugstad $2 million this season as well.

You act like I’m suggesting we sign a $10 million AAV player, guy. You are creating excuses and roadblocks because deep down, you don’t have much faith in Hextall to make the necessary and obvious moves in the short term.

I really don’t think management will be as useless this off season as what most of you are suggesting. Doing absolutely nothing is the worst of the three options, and any person, especially a front office, has to recognize that.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Did that line up with someone like Zucker's injury too? I can't even really remember this past season, tbh.

Zucker missed February 25 to March 27 with his injury.

Blueger missed March 16 to April 9 with his.

edit: McCann missed March 9 to March 18. Not sure who else was injured around this time. Lots, I'm sure.

Certainly an overlap. I don't have the dates Seattle was scouting the Pens. Taylor Haase, I think, was the one to point it out.

another edit: Found this fancy site: NHL Injury Viz: 2020/21 team injury breakdowns You can scroll over to Pittsburgh to see who was injured what game.

 

[SomeDude]

29 days til the expansion draft.

I see what you did there.

 

[pistolpete11]

Guentzel for Tkachuk could probably be its own thread with how many pros, cons, and risks would be involved, but f***. With the current winger group, Tkachuk would be the dream.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I wonder if Seattle tries to go after the best players available in order to ice the best team, or tries to accumulate the most value asset-wise in an effort to flip guys.

Still curious about the idea brought up a week or so ago where hypothetically, Seattle wants two of our guys, so they select one and we have them select someone else from another team in order to flip that guy to us for the other Penguin player they're interested in, for a sorta expansion draft-driven three team deal. I doubt it, but that's fun to think about.

Maybe they want to acquire someone with 2 last names?

We've cracked the code, they want ZAR

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Maybe you have to send DeSmith to the minors and eat his very small cap hit to sign another goalie. Don’t bring back ZAR and use the savings there for a goalie. We won’t be paying Bjugstad $2 million this season as well.

You act like I’m suggesting we sign a $10 million AAV player, guy. You are creating excuses and roadblocks because deep down, you don’t have much faith in Hextall to make moves in the short term.

Nah, that's not it. I just don't expect Hextall to be a short-term focused GM, nor do I think this is a short-term organization anymore. Even no-brainer moves like seeing Rust sent out for a Kap or Zucker-like return in order to recoup futures with an asset that's 100% walking a calendar year from now, or shuffling things about to grab a decent goalie in FA since there are several available. It's not gonna happen because the team is comfortable, if not confident, where it's at. If something falls into our lap, sure, I expect the team to make a move, but we're not going out and searching for new guys or aggressively shopping any of our players/assets.

It's just the constant, repetitive, identical bitching and whining about inaction when the team clearly had intent behind hiring a GM known for patience and building. Maybe there's a reason we went after one of the more highly regarded free agent GMs around the league that has a polar opposite approach from the idiotic, gunslinger style of the previous GM who spent assets and overpaid for guys like there was no tomorrow.

If anything, only one of us is having a hard time accepting the likely course of action this organization is going to follow for the next several years as the era plays itself to a close, and the window already being firmly shut. Your stance is as stubborn as the coach you can't stand, with your inability to realize or accept that this team's on cruise control from here on out, or for at least this season, and has publicly said as much. They're happy with Jarry/DeSmith, they're happy with Sullivan and think he's a fantastic coach, they're happy with a supporting cast despite none of these guys being able to get it done when it matters. Accept it or don't, up to you.

Yeah, it'd be great if the team picked a lane and stuck to it--whether it be sell off assets and rebuild, or perform the major surgery needed to the roster (wings, goalie) and getting a new coach to try and vie for one last Cup--but I'm not gonna muddy up the forum with constant bitching about Hextall because I simply can't grasp or accept that realistically, the team has decided it's done doing anything of note and is more than happy letting the current roster play it out, collecting the last bit of cash from the era before the rebuild.

 

[Jackpot Jaret]

What the **** are you guys doing? Its summer time in the northern hemisphere. Go out and get some sun. Get off the keyboard. Nothing is going to happen until the playoffs are over. Enjoy the summer!

Some of us have desk jobs that allow us to post on here while on the clock. I can post on here and enjoy the summer enough as it is!

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Call me crazy but if Zucker is available to Seattle, and they want to ice a good team, then they have to take him. He would fit their profile perfectly, he makes a little bit of money but people are acting like he is signed for 9 mil for like 6 years. He is making 5.5 mil for 2 years.

He can come in and play on their top line and top PP. He plays a well rounded game and would have to be one of the better players available. He could be their Neal or Karlsson, circa Vegas 2017. If he doesn't work out I think they can easily retain money and get decent returns back for him.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not interested in semantics games.

Over the last 3 years, he's 7th in points among LWs. Guentzel's 9th. Whatever you want to call that, he's already among the most productive players at his position over a large sample size at age 23.

He also is in the same realm PPG wise as David Perron, Debrincat, and Pacioretty which I wouldn't label as elite.

Guentzel is also 9th because he missed about 30 more games. 5 less points in that sample.

I advocated for Guentzel for Tkachuk earlier in the year. I'm not completely against it. I just see some concerns about Tkachuk especially given his playoff performances.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

He also is in the same realm PPG wise as David Perron, Debrincat, and Pacioretty which I wouldn't label as elite.

Guentzel is also 9th because he missed about 30 more games. 5 less points in that sample.

I advocated for Guentzel for Tkachuk earlier in the year. I'm not completely against it. I just see some concerns about Tkachuk especially given his playoff performances.

I think you're the one who pointed out that Marchand playoff goal stat.

 

[Pens x]

Call me crazy but if Zucker is available to Seattle, and they want to ice a good team, then they have to take him. He would fit their profile perfectly, he makes a little bit of money but people are acting like he is signed for 9 mil for like 6 years. He is making 5.5 mil for 2 years.

He can come in and play on their top line and top PP. He plays a well rounded game and would have to be one of the better players available. He could be their Neal or Karlsson, circa Vegas 2017. If he doesn't work out I think they can easily retain money and get decent returns back for him.

Which is why we need to protect him and gasp, try him somewhere else in the lineup next year. This is why it was beyond incompetent to not try this during last season.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think you're the one who pointed out that Marchand playoff goal stat.

Yes, but Marchand was able to be effective in the playoffs as a top six winger in 2010.

Tkachuk has never been effective in the playoffs. Can it change? Yes, short sample and all of that. But the issue is he's actively hurting his team in two of the playoffs.

Ultimately, if we had better assets and could afford Tkachuk for a future package I'd be much more keen because he'd be playing 2nd fiddle behind Guentzel who if he's given lighter d coverage probably makes the other team pay for it.

The issue is the package is probably Jake for Tkachuk.

 

[mpp9]

He also is in the same realm PPG wise as David Perron, Debrincat, and Pacioretty which I wouldn't label as elite.

Guentzel is also 9th because he missed about 30 more games. 5 less points in that sample.

I advocated for Guentzel for Tkachuk earlier in the year. I'm not completely against it. I just see some concerns about Tkachuk especially given his playoff performances.

I'd be targeting a slightly less productive but bigger net front style player in return for Guentzel. That's Tkachuk to a T. Add in his ability to legit create offense from the corners and around the net and sprinkle his agitating qualities, he's worth the risk IMO.

Obviously, if you can add a guy like that without using Guentzel, sweet. But I don't see it. Too many other teams have better prospect pools. Not many would theoretically be willing to trade a productive player like Jake.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Speaking of Tkachuks, wasn't there a rumor at some point that Keith was coming to the Pens? Or was that Kariya? Or both?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Jake is a ghost in the playoffs though. The Jake from 2027 is gone.

@Pens x

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd take Tkachuk for Jake for the pure entertainment value alone. Similar players in terms of production but Jake's just so f***ing boring. At least if Tkachuk isn't producing huge numbers, he'll be annoying the shit out of the opposition and causing some havoc. When Jake isn't producing, he's miserable defensively and just kind of exists.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Oddly enough, this popped up re: Tkachuk.

If all Calgary can get for a ~24yr old Tkachuk is a battered ~30yr old Tarasenko, I dunno, man. That seems bad to me.

The hard T "Tah-chuck".

 

[Pens x]

Nah, that's not it. I just don't expect Hextall to be a short-term focused GM, nor do I think this is a short-term organization anymore. Even no-brainer moves like seeing Rust sent out for a Kap or Zucker-like return in order to recoup futures with an asset that's 100% walking a calendar year from now, or shuffling things about to grab a decent goalie in FA since there are several available. It's not gonna happen because the team is comfortable, if not confident, where it's at. If something falls into our lap, sure, I expect the team to make a move, but we're not going out and searching for new guys or aggressively shopping any of our players/assets.

It's just the constant, repetitive, identical bitching and whining about inaction when the team clearly had intent behind hiring a GM known for patience and building. Maybe there's a reason we went after one of the more highly regarded free agent GMs around the league that has a polar opposite approach from the idiotic, gunslinger style of the previous GM who spent assets and overpaid for guys like there was no tomorrow.

If anything, only one of us is having a hard time accepting the likely course of action this organization is going to follow for the next several years as the era plays itself to a close, and the window already being firmly shut. Your stance is as stubborn as the coach you can't stand, with your inability to realize or accept that this team's on cruise control from here on out, or for at least this season, and has publicly said as much. They're happy with Jarry/DeSmith, they're happy with Sullivan and think he's a fantastic coach, they're happy with a supporting cast despite none of these guys being able to get it done when it matters. Accept it or don't, up to you.

Yeah, it'd be great if the team picked a lane and stuck to it--whether it be sell off assets and rebuild, or perform the major surgery needed to the roster (wings, goalie) and getting a new coach to try and vie for one last Cup--but I'm not gonna muddy up the forum with constant bitching about Hextall because I simply can't grasp or accept that realistically, the team has decided it's done doing anything of note and is more than happy letting the current roster play it out, collecting the last bit of cash from the era before the rebuild.

You speak with great authority and certainty that very little will happen, almost as if the off season already happened.

I still have a shred of hope that sleepy knows he can’t rely on our goalies next season. Also, Hextall was canned in Philly largely for sticking with an awful coach. I really hope he was told he can’t fire coach clown or wow, he failed to learn from past mistakes. Burke and Sleepy have to know that the top 6 wingers need a change as well.

Signing a free agent goalie and making a trade isnt unreasonable. Signing a goalie this off season is very easy.