Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salad Thread - ED of Concern

[Randy Butternubs]

I mean, I agree. I'm upset we didn't go for Palms. But I'm not upset we did not pay a 1st for him.

Rossi is very plugged in to Malkin, obviously. I buy it totally and it would be a boon for us if Geno took 3 years/$18M. Would be a fitting retirement contract for a legend.

I disagree with @Big Friggin Dummy on Malkin using the Ovechkin deal. Ovechkin has leverage: He's Ovechkin. But more importantly it's to chase Gretzky's record. Leonsis is not stupid and knows how much attention/money this will bring his team even once their window is fully closed.

We paid more than that for Zucker

Either Jake or Rust has to go this summer. Just has to. I want shakeups, dangit. Doesn't Burke have the whole "1 big move an offseason" thing?

Jake brings higher upside but higher risk. Is he permanently a 5'9 Marcus Pettersson at forward after the shoulder injury? In terms of benching like 105 kinda stuff?

I'm not sure why you continually go back to this. Should we have paid a 1st for a rental LW instead of Zucker last year?

Even after our window is closed people will still pile into the seats to see the end of the Sid/Geno era. I think it'd be dumb of Geno's camp to not push the envelope for the most money they can get, tbh. It's his last deal, or very likely to be his last deal. His knee is jacked up, and he's gonna be almost 36 by the time he signs, but I expect him to ask for a bunch of money and the team to oblige. Maybe not to the degree Washington/Leonsis will re: Ovechkin (Leonsis has already publicly said they'll sign Ovechkin to whatever he wants without question), but I think Geno's camp will absolutely use his contract as a starting point. I'm pretty skeptical he'll take less than $8 million, but if he did, I'd by pleasantly surprised.

I think Letang could easily take the same deal he has now, if not ask for more money. Dude's aging the best of the three and is already on a great deal.

I'm hopeful, but pretty skeptical that we're gonna see the team spending less than like $14 million AAV combined for Geno and Letang's next deals.

I think Rust is the no-brainer, but Jake makes more sense than a lot of people want to admit, apparently.

Nothing's gonna happen though. I'd be utterly shocked after the way Hexturke has been talking about how happy they are with the coach, roster, goalies, etc. The team's on cruise control until next summer, then the decisions will begin, imo.

Sig bet on this one. Pittsburgh fans are fickle and will start tuning out once we miss the playoffs. There will be a lot of empty seats when that happens, even if the team still claims sellouts.

Something about the totality of L1 was messed up by the end of last season. The gap between how they were perceived and treated by their teammates, coach and media and the actual on-ice results was staggering. The chemistry was never as great as it was made out to be and all 3 players took a big dip in form by the end individually.

It was less than the sum of its parts but the coach/fanbase/media played this "emperor has no clothes" thing in claiming they were some sort of juggernaut. Really their only saving grace is that Tristan Jarry drew attention away from their horrible performance.

So I don't know. Rust was a contributor to that line breaking but he was also a victim of it as well. If we trade Jake for a 2C and move Geno to 1LW, I think Rust could be a great RW with Sid & Geno.

Hopefully Guentzel retires next year. Career is basically over tbh.

Just as important, Malkin doesn't really have any leverage left after this injury. I don't think it was ever going to take arm twisting for him to take a good deal for the team anyway; he has always said his desire is to win and play for the same team his entire career. The people who claim Malkin will test the market because he will want more money than the Pens can offer have never understood what makes him tick IMO and have no relationship with him or sources around him. Sadly, that describes all but one person in the Pittsburgh and national media. The phrase 'talking out of your ass' is overused these days but there is no more accurate description for the media when the topic turns to Malkin.

Yeah, L1 beat up on some real bad teams and chipped in some EN points. At no point during the season was I ever really impressed with Sid or Jake, the latter especially. He took like half a dozen shots from range with any real mustard on 'em, or any real threat to score. He either had no confidence in his shoulder, or it was still physically bothering him. Either way, he had the least impressive, most forgettable PPG season I can ever remember seeing.

Rust needed to do something to contribute. If he's not gonna be scoring, he has to remember how to play the all-around game and work his ass off for puck battles and loose pucks. Kap wasn't scoring but he was hustling like crazy and doing work along the boards and in the corners. Rust just kinda existed, and happened to score on two long-range shots that should've been saved, if we're being honest.

Jake was flat-out awful. Losing his mind all series whenever he got hit. Chopping at guys, barking at refs, etc. He was terrible defensively, like he always is, and a non-entity offensively. He can't suck across the board for 3 straight playoff appearances and have all the support in the world from fans and the FO. Just doesn't make sense. Dude's been as big a disappointment as any one factor this series outside of Jarry, imo.


I don't care enough to make a sig bet that I probably won't even remember about in like 3 years when the window is objectively, inarguably closed. Hell, I think it's closed now realistically. We're miles behind Vegas, Colorado and Tampa in terms of Cup contention and we're not gonna get any closer keeping the same roster, coach and goalies.

	PPG: 5-on-5	PP	EN	4-on-4/3-on-3	Total
Crosby '18-'19	.77	.37	.08	.1	1.27
Crosby '21	.49	.41	.15 (lol)	.22 (lol)	1.13
Diff	-.28	+.04	+.07	+.12	-.14

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Sidney Crosby - Summary - Natural Stat Trick

Some numbers may not be mutually exclusive (e.g., team pulls goalie while on PK), hence not adding to 0 in the diff, but ya get the picture. Massive decline in 5-on-5 productivity propped up by other situations at a rate that is unsustainable.

Geno doesn’t strike me as a money first guy. Hope he takes a friendlier deal.

I kinda hope Malkin bounces to another team since every offseason all we hear is nothing but disrespect against him from the media shits after the shit he's done for the team. He wont, he will wanna finish out his career on 1 team only like Crosby and probably Letang.

I mean, Geno's making $9.5 million dollars. He's definitely a money-second guy if he's not a money-first guy.

When he signed his deal, the max cap hit was $13.8 million. He left money on the table, sure, but he was the 2nd highest cap hit in the league--$500k behind Ovechkin's $10 million.

1. Ovechkin - $10 mil
2. Malkin - $9.5 mil
3. Subban - $9 mil
4. Crosby - $8.7 mil
5. Perry - $8.6 mil
6. Lundqvist - $8.5 mil
7. Giroux - $8.275 mil
8 . E. Staal - $8.25
9. Getzlaf - $8.25
10. Kessel - $8 mil

I have no problem with a player wanting to make as much as possible. Very short window to do so as a professional athlete. But to act like Geno's been a guy willing to take pennies is, uh, wrong.

We should sign Saad and trade Jake.

Freed from his prison of the flesh and petty human senses, Jake Guentzel finally ascends to the next plane of being.

If I remember correctly, Malkin was one of the first batch of players that signed their deals under the new contract limits. That plays a factor when comparing him to the rest of the league at that time.

I don't expect him to take peanuts, but I think the Pens offer should be essentially to match Crosby and Malkin's career earnings. I think it works out to 3-4 years at $6-7M per.

I think $7.1M a season for 3 years is a very fair deal for Malkin.

We should have not wasted our meager assets on something we didn't truly need.

I was just looking at that this morning. And it is tough to make that happen because Sid started playing a year earlier. To match the earnings, difference is 28.4 mil, you would have to give Malkin a 3 year deal for 9.46 mil and that is too much at this point in his career. But you could give him a 4 year deal for 7.1 mil. Sid would make something during that 4th year but does it really matter, he will be 38.

Aka, I don't believe it is realistic to make it match exactly. But a 3 year deal for 6-7.1mil a season would make it pretty close. It not being exactly the same is ok with me because Sid is always communicating with the media while Malkin chooses to be in the background.

Sid and Geno are great but let's be honest both are past their primes. Neither plays on a "generational" level at this point of their careers.

I disagree that Rust benefits from circumstance. He used to be a 20g/40pt top 9 player. But IMO his last 2 seasons he proved he's a legit 30 goal 60-70 point winger. And he didn't even play on PP1 until 2021. His production is definitely 1st line quality.
Plus add in the fact that he's a great 2 way player who excels in every situation and every in every zone. IMO he's a lock to be a top 15 RW, and can be argued as a top 10 RW depending if you believe his offensive production is a fluke or not.

Yeah it's going to be tough to match exactly since Malkin has played 1 less year despite being 1 year older. But in that ballpark.

4 years at $7.1M

3 years at $6.6M (their career earnings difference minus 1 year at $8.7M which is the standard that Crosby set.)

Malkin could push for more if he wants and I for one wouldn't hold it against him, but if he truly wants to be a Penguin for his entire career, to have a shot at winning a 4th Cup, and to finish this thing off with Crosby (and Letang), I think it's reasonable for both sides.

Breaking news from Kingerski: Pens won't be exposing Malkin or Jarry in the Expansion Draft.

Wild. I know.

Continue.

Click to read more...

 

[Pens x]

We will see if Malkin cares more about his legacy of playing for one team or if he wants to contend for a cup with his limited time left in the league. Does he chase the money or want to be closer to his wife and son in FL?

The Penguins continuing to pretend that nothing is wrong with the team after 3 first round losses might make the decision easier for him, unfortunately.

I wont blame him for whatever he decides to do. I imagine it would be frustrating to see coach turd come back after so many recent failures.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

@Goalie_Bob @pistolpete11 @Big Friggin Dummy

Geno contract talk.

Marleau got $6.67M and $6.25M for 3 years each on his last big deals. He was right around 36 (Geno's age next summer) when getting those deals. Those cap hits are 9.66% and 8.33% of the cap when the contracts were signed.

Given that Malkin is objectively better than Marleau, him getting 10% of the cap ($8.15M) doesn't seem out of the question.

But, I really do think he signs for around $7.1M. Which is actually 8.7% of the cap. So that's nice.

 

[Pens x]

@Goalie_Bob @pistolpete11 @Big Friggin Dummy
But, I really do think he signs for around $7.1M. Which is actually 8.7% of the cap. So that's nice.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Final stab at the Penguins' protection list for the expansion draft from Rossi at the Athletic.

Penguins protected list: Who's staying and who could be picked by the Kraken in the expansion draft?

He goes with Carter, Crosby, Guentzel, Kapanen, Malkin, McCann, Rust at forward; Dumoulin, Friedman, Letang on defense; DeSmith in goal.

Rossi outlines his thinking in detail, but the cliff notes version is that the Penguins can risk exposing Jarry because it's unlikely that Seattle takes a risk on a goalie who just had a spectacular flameout in the playoffs. Thus, the Penguins are able to "protect" both of their goalies. If Seattle does surprise and take Jarry, it frees up the cap to sign a veteran.

Protecting Friedman over Matheson/Pettersson increases the chances that the Penguins get salary relief from the expansion draft.

And Malkin's health necessitates making sure Carter and McCann are protected. You risk exposing Blueger and Tanev, but Zucker's the most logical take for Seattle.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Final stab at the Penguins' protection list for the expansion draft from Rossi at the Athletic.

Penguins protected list: Who's staying and who could be picked by the Kraken in the expansion draft?

He goes with Carter, Crosby, Guentzel, Kapanen, Malkin, McCann, Rust at forward; Dumoulin, Friedman, Letang on defense; DeSmith in goal.

Rossi outlines his thinking in detail, but the cliff notes version is that the Penguins can risk exposing Jarry because it's unlikely that Seattle takes a risk on a goalie who just had a spectacular flameout in the playoffs. Thus, the Penguins are able to "protect" both of their goalies. If Seattle does surprise and take Jarry, it frees up the cap to sign a veteran.

Protecting Friedman over Matheson/Pettersson increases the chances that the Penguins get salary relief from the expansion draft.

And Malkin's health necessitates making sure Carter and McCann are protected. You risk exposing Blueger and Tanev, but Zucker's the most logical take for Seattle.

I get his reasoning. Doesn't mean I like it. Thanks for sharing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I get his reasoning. Doesn't mean I like it. Thanks for sharing.

Oh god, you understand Rossi? Are you... feeling okay? Has your family made arrangements for the inevitable yet?

 

[Gurglesons]

I get his reasoning. Doesn't mean I like it. Thanks for sharing.

The article is confusing because it says they should protect Blueger, but he isn’t.

 

[LOGiK]

We will see if Malkin cares more about his legacy of playing for one team or if he wants to contend for a cup with his limited time left in the league. Does he chase the money or want to be closer to his wife and son in FL?

The Penguins continuing to pretend that nothing is wrong with the team after 3 first round losses might make the decision easier for him, unfortunately.

I wont blame him for whatever he decides to do. I imagine it would be frustrating to see coach turd come back after so many recent failures.

Wonder why he chose fl of all places. It's friggin HOT, like hot HOT. Being from russia I wonder... I guess the mega wealthy have it much better than living in some sweltering hot rancher. Not to mention bugs the size of your fist looking turn you into a meal.
Any idea _when_ he moved to FL? After a vacation? After he met his lady friend?


If I had 100m where would I put down roots..... and why..... hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The article is confusing because it says they should protect Blueger, but he isn’t.

Yeah, it needs an edit. But I get what he's saying - they're going to protect Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Rust and Kapanen. The final two forwards spots are a discussion over McCann, Carter, Blueger, Tanev and Zucker.

With Malkin's status questionable for at least the start of the season, using the final two spots to protect McCann and Carter - two centers capable of scoring in Malkin's absence - makes the most sense, even if it means risking Blueger or Tanev.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I would protect Blueger over McCann. Neither has put very many points in the playoffs, but I think Teddy has a higher upside with defensive play at center. Even if he's not scoring in the playoffs, if he could become a shutdown center then I definitely value him over McCann. Who I think we might be able to replace with Poulin or Legare or through trade/FA

 

[pistolpete11]

Final stab at the Penguins' protection list for the expansion draft from Rossi at the Athletic.

Penguins protected list: Who's staying and who could be picked by the Kraken in the expansion draft?

He goes with Carter, Crosby, Guentzel, Kapanen, Malkin, McCann, Rust at forward; Dumoulin, Friedman, Letang on defense; DeSmith in goal.

Rossi outlines his thinking in detail, but the cliff notes version is that the Penguins can risk exposing Jarry because it's unlikely that Seattle takes a risk on a goalie who just had a spectacular flameout in the playoffs. Thus, the Penguins are able to "protect" both of their goalies. If Seattle does surprise and take Jarry, it frees up the cap to sign a veteran.

Protecting Friedman over Matheson/Pettersson increases the chances that the Penguins get salary relief from the expansion draft.

And Malkin's health necessitates making sure Carter and McCann are protected. You risk exposing Blueger and Tanev, but Zucker's the most logical take for Seattle.

I.....actually agree with Rossi.

I don't think it is what they will do, but I think it is what they should do.

I think they will ultimately end up protecting Jarry and one of Petts/Matheson, but giving them a choice to take any of Zucker, Petts, Matheson, Jarry, or Tanev would be fine by me. I hate exposing Blueger, but Carter and McCann just have too much value to the team next year and/or in a trade to not protect.

 

[Gurglesons]

I would protect Blueger over McCann. Neither has put very many points in the playoffs, but I think Teddy has a higher upside with defensive play at center. Even if he's not scoring in the playoffs, if he could become a shutdown center then I definitely value him over McCann. Who I think we might be able to replace with Poulin or Legare or through trade/FA

The issue is McCann likely has more trade value.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Is Kapanen exempt?

Nevermind, just saw him on the list. I don't disagree with Rossi, although I think I would protect Matheson over Friedman. We're going to need puck-moving defensemen if we're going to make any kind of noise in the playoffs. That said, wow did he handle the puck like a grenade at times when it got tough. So, it's a toss-up. I like the list otherwise. I 100% protect DeSmith over Jarry. I get the happy talk in the media for all of the right reasons, but behind closed doors there better be a few people who are speaking reality right now about that goalie. You cannot waste the last years of Crosby and the core on a guy that could flame out spectacularly with no backup to stop the bleeding.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Is Kapanen exempt?

No.

 

[Darren McCord]

This hinges on Tb’s contract too. A good contract and value goes up. A bad contract his value goes down. McCann has a good deal at least for this year

 

[Pens x]

I would protect Blueger over McCann. Neither has put very many points in the playoffs, but I think Teddy has a higher upside with defensive play at center. Even if he's not scoring in the playoffs, if he could become a shutdown center then I definitely value him over McCann. Who I think we might be able to replace with Poulin or Legare or through trade/FA

Poulin couldn’t beat donkeys like Lafferty, Jank, Sceviour last year for a roster spot. How is he now a top 9 player?

Maybe Poulin should play in an AHL game before you hand him a roster spot?

We have no internal solutions for any top 9 player if we lose someone. McCann and Blueger were jokes in the playoffs, but I can’t see this team let them go when all ownership seems to care about winning in the regular season. McCann and Zucker likely help us get our 2 or 3 playoff games more than others.

Either way, the expansion draft will be used as an excuse when we flame out in the first round again. That and we just didn’t get any bounces!

 

[JRS91]

I don't really see Seattle taking a 36 year old Jeff Carter with one year left on his deal who's hinted at retirement in the past.

Personally, I think the Penguins will protect Zucker. He had a decent playoffs, but he's still being misused. It would hurt to lose him for nothing, but at the same time I almost sort of hope he sticks around and finds chemistry on Carter's LW (If Carter doesn't retire) so Sullivan keeps them together when Malkin returns.

I don't think Zucker is a bad player, the guy just doesn't fit at all with Malkin. McCann does, Kapanen does, Guentzel does. Zucker fit well with Crosby. It should be easy to put pieces where they belong, but here we are again. If Sullivan is so fixated on keeping Guentzel, Crosby and Rust together, so be it. I just want McCann with Malkin and Kapanen. Do I think it would've made a huge difference given Jarry's meltdown in the playoffs? No, but it just makes way more sense to at least have your lines all playing efficiently.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think that is good sense. But I also think they will immediately re-attach him to Malkin as soon as humanly possible so I'm fine with him gone.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh I'd be entirely fine with protecting Carter over Blueger if you can get assurance from Carter that he'd re-sign after his current deal. Even if that means the Penguins lose Blueger in the expansion draft.

If you re-sign Carter, I honestly don't think you "need" Blueger anymore. Your top-9 centers are set with Sid, Geno and Carter, plus you have McCann as injury insurance for any of those guys. You have Poulin coming up from the minors who appears to have shifted to center. In the short term, you can rely on Zohorna, Gaudreau or Lafferty to be your 4C.

I'm fine with all of those expansion picks by Rossi except for protecting Friedman. That's a nonsensical idea, pick whichever one of Matheson or Pettersson you want to keep and protect them.

 

[JRS91]

Also, management seemed to be pretty content with Jarry.

I mean, saying and doing are two different things. I think if Jarry is exposed and picked up by Seattle, they'll make a very hard run at Andersen.

 

[Rakell67]

Tbh I'd be entirely fine with protecting Carter over Blueger if you can get assurance from Carter that he'd re-sign after his current deal. Even if that means the Penguins lose Blueger in the expansion draft.

If you re-sign Carter, I honestly don't think you "need" Blueger anymore. Your top-9 centers are set with Sid, Geno and Carter, plus you have McCann as injury insurance for any of those guys. You have Poulin coming up from the minors who appears to have shifted to center. In the short term, you can rely on Zohorna, Gaudreau or Lafferty to be your 4C.

I'm fine with all of those expansion picks by Rossi except for protecting Friedman. That's a nonsensical idea, pick whichever one of Matheson or Pettersson you want to keep and protect them.

O’Connor played a lot at C for WBS as well and Bellerive seems to fit the mold of a gritty 4th C.

 

[pistolpete11]

Tbh I'd be entirely fine with protecting Carter over Blueger if you can get assurance from Carter that he'd re-sign after his current deal. Even if that means the Penguins lose Blueger in the expansion draft.

If you re-sign Carter, I honestly don't think you "need" Blueger anymore. Your top-9 centers are set with Sid, Geno and Carter, plus you have McCann as injury insurance for any of those guys. You have Poulin coming up from the minors who appears to have shifted to center. In the short term, you can rely on Zohorna, Gaudreau or Lafferty to be your 4C.

I think there is a conversation to be had even if you know Carter is gone after next year. I like Blueger a lot and think he is a capable 3C...but Carter is a difference making 3C even if he understandably regresses from what he has done in Pittsburgh.

I think it would partially depend on the contract Blueger is looking for, but would I rather have Carter at $2.5M for 1 year or Blueger at $3.5M for 3 years.....? I don't know.

I'm fine with all of those expansion picks by Rossi except for protecting Friedman. That's a nonsensical idea, pick whichever one of Matheson or Pettersson you want to keep and protect them.

I think the thought process would be that you want Seattle to take one of them instead of Blueger, Zucker, Carter, etc. If they would take one of them but not the other, you don't want to end up protecting the wrong one and thus pushing them towards Blueger, Zucker, etc.

 

[K Fleur]

I think Blueger could be a much more impactful player with better linemates.

But he's also one of our depth players that doesn't show up in the playoffs so I don't really care if he gets exposed.