Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread

[Scandale du Jour]

Last few posts:

No exhibition games last year was a issue for DOC and players with zero experience in the NHL. I think he will be a good LW this year in WB and has the size and can skate to be a good player down the road. Legare got a very good write up from Scott Young and he has slimmed down, gained needed speed and quickness especially his first couple of steps. Really like Poulin and all will benefit form the experience of the AHL as they mature and are learning to play professional hockey.

But that's not what happened last year at all? Like I do not understand how you are drawing that conclusion from the past season at all with BART + GCR.

There's been seasons where Sullivan mixes up the lines more frequently, but that's mostly been in his early tenure here.

There were far too many injuries this last year to describe anything that happened with the lines as 'rigidity'.


I do tell myself correct things all the time, thank you for the permission though.


Or I can look at other games where various other players were injured and see less effective line combinations being used.


Most people can see that Sullivan is the best coach for this team, with the lineup as it's constructed. Perhaps Hextall/Burke will significantly remake the team and we will need a coach more suited to coaching players with GRIT. As it is though, it's Sullivan.


Blueger missed 13 games this season. Tanev missed 24 games this season. ZAR missed 11 games this season. While those players were out, other line combinations were tried. They were not as effective as BART was.

We need to revamp the roster since it’s clearly not working in the postseason. Sully’s system is trash and his refusal to make any changes killed them team. How do you start Jarry in game 6? How do you bit at the very least pull him in that game? Why didn’t he try Zucker with Sid when Jake was a ghost for that entire series?

Who do you think should be the Penguins' coach, if not Sullivan?

We’ve missed out on 2 or 3 years of coaches. This team has responded twice with cup wins when the team makes a change behind the bench.

He might go elsewhere and succeed, who knows? He had a solid roster heading into the playoffs and still couldn’t get it done. He does his little forward pairings and simply does not adjust. Line 1 is set in stone even if it struggles and completely a non factor in the playoffs.

He’s also just so damn lazy with the AHL guys. Until we had the massive amount of injuries, he kept going back to guys that are barely NHL players in Jank, Sceviour, Laff without even trying an AHL players. If this team had remained fully healthy all season, none of the AHL guys would have played a min in the NHL.

I dunno why this conversation is touchy today, but hey, hope the morning goes better, buddies! I did mention that injury caused the lines to change up, that's the whole point of this discussion. My point was that, when he has a healthy Pens team Sullivan does not juggle the lines as frequently as he used to do-- maybe his coaching philosophy changed? That's not a knock against him per se (though I personally prefer more reactive coaches), but it's not my favorite aspect of him behind the bench, nor is it an asset, I think.

Which coaches in the NHL do you think would do better with this roster than Sullivan? Ignore the question, for now, of whether or not they're available.


My assumption for the reason you might think this is the case is that the longer he is here, the more the roster can be molded into what his image for it is. He no longer has to try to find a fit for players who don't fit into his system, because there are fewer and fewer of them.

The reason the lines don't change is that Sullivan is stubborn and once he gets an idea in his head, that's the way it it will be, no matter how wrong it is.

Want proof? Explain for everyone how Jack Johnson earned his regular roster spot here.

I would have went after Gallant or Lambert this summer, possibly even Boudreau. Mike Sullivan and Dan Bylsma were not well known, obvious choices for a head coaching job, so I’m sure there are others as well.

He’s only here because of his contract.

There were numerous voices in the room advocating for Jack Johnson having a regular spot here. You can certainly fault Sullivan as the final decision-maker, but it's not as though he was the only one who thought it was a good idea.


Really, Gallant or Boudreau? Interesting. Which things do you think they'd do differently (that are important to you)?

Yes, I can and I do. "Other voices in the room" doesn't change anything.

Sullivan - as the final decision maker - has shown himself more than capable of making disastrous roster decisions that hurt the team because of his rigid thinking.

I think Boudreau could find a way to make our star players not completely useless in the playoffs. He’s also a decent coach with a mediocre lineup, so when we suffer injuries, I think he could keep us afloat. His style is conducive to our star players. The only thing sully can do at this point is keep the team afloat when injuries hit.

I’m tired of losing to no-neck in the playoffs; give me the guy that has been under him for so many years. The only downside is that the team would be boring to watch.

I think Gallant would have been the best fit overall. Boudreau sometimes sucks defensively, and our d sucks and overpaid. But I like both of their uptempo systems and a new voice has been needed for two years.

The question is why are we keeping Sully? The only positive things I can see is he keeps the team afloat when we have injuries.

It's funny, we play more uptempo when we're injured. It's dumb. We play further up in the zone, we chase pucks hard, we attack the puck-carrier. I'm dead set now that it's all been Sully since 2018. The reason we suck when we're healthy is because Sully genuinely thinks the stack the house and hope for a bounce to counter-punch system is better than our 2016 system and that the "key" to it is having guys healthy.

I think he has it completely ass-backwards because we got lucky in 2017 and he's sniffing his own farts a bit too much.

In the grand scheme of things, of course it doesn't change anything, because the decision was made. If we're going to assign blame for the decision, I think it does matter who was advocating for it. For all we know, Sullivan didn't like Jack Johnson at all, but was persuaded into using Johnson by Rutherford, and deferred to Martin when Martin advocated for Johnson.


That's interesting. I don't agree with your analysis of either of those coaches, but I admit I've really only watched their teams when they play the Penguins and didn't look closely at what the opposition's coach was doing.

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[Pens x]

Sullivan is very fortunate to be working for this team. With Sleepy as GM, Sully has more job security than anyone besides maybe Cooper. They seem like they won’t fire him and then have to pay someone else in his place. The team’s poor finances really benefit this clown.

I just can’t see a reason to keep the guy. Star players have been struggling for 3 years in the playoffs under this turd. At some point, winning the cup 5 years ago and counting shouldn’t be enough to keep someone employed that hasn’t done a damn thing since then.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

@OtherThingsILike We're not going to start absolving the coach of line-up decisions where he has the final say. The buck stops with him.

If he can't be accountable for that, he can't be accountable for anything.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

@OtherThingsILike We're not going to start absolving the coach of line-up decisions where he has the final say. The buck stops with him.

If he can't be accountable for that, he can't be accountable for anything.

You can absolutely hold him accountable for keeping Jack Johnson in the lineup as long as he did. As you said, the buck stops with him.
What you can't do is presume that he made that decision -or really any decision, but particularly this one- because he's just so damn stubborn. Assigning blame is reasonable; assigning motive is not.

 

[Tender Rip]

.... I would like to start the season with a 4th line of Zohorna Gaudreau Poulin.

Just saying.

... and the Cap says “Yay!”.

 

[SEALBound]

I vote we stop talking about Jack f***ing Johnson in the Prospects thread. You want to bitch and moan about a guy that's no longer here? Then f*** off to one of the other threads about him.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You can absolutely hold him accountable for keeping Jack Johnson in the lineup as long as he did. As you said, the buck stops with him.
What you can't do is presume that he made that decision -or really any decision, but particularly this one- because he's just so damn stubborn. Assigning blame is reasonable; assigning motive is not.

We can always narrow it down to the most likely options.

He's either stubborn, a bad judge of talent, inclined to give vets far more rope than they're entitled to...I'm open to more, but none of these are attributes that recommend a coach, and any of them could apply to his poor line-up decisions these last playoffs.

 

[Gurglesons]

We can always narrow it down to the most likely options.

He's either stubborn, a bad judge of talent, inclined to give vets far more rope than they're entitled to...I'm open to more, but none of these are attributes that recommend a coach, and any of them could apply to his poor line-up decisions these last playoffs.

Or an NHL coach.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I vote we stop talking about Jack f***ing Johnson in the Prospects thread. You want to bitch and moan about a guy that's no longer here? Then f*** off to one of the other threads about him.

I feel like this is the year Jack "I'm Sadly Named After an Amazing Early 20th Century Boxer" Johnson is going to turn a corner and finally make the jump to the NHL!

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Did somebody say Jack Johnson?!?

As in THE Jack Johnson?

I'm just itching to open up a dialogue about that guy!

 

[HandshakeLine]

Did somebody say Jack Johnson?!?

As in THE Jack Johnson?

I'm just itching to open up a dialogue about that guy!

Hell yeah! I think it's criminal that his fight against James J. Jeffries is so little discussed these days.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hell yeah! I think it's criminal that his fight against James J. Jeffries is so little discussed these days.

Fight of the century, my man!

But the race riots afterward... not... so... cool.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Or an NHL coach.

I'm well past ready for one that will make different mistakes.

 

[steelcityassault]

.... I would like to start the season with a 4th line of Zohorna Gaudreau Poulin.

Just saying.

... and the Cap says “Yay!”.

Why would Poulin start on a 4th line instead of 25 mins + in WBS

 

[DesertedPenguin]

.... I would like to start the season with a 4th line of Zohorna Gaudreau Poulin.

Just saying.

... and the Cap says “Yay!”.

That's ridiculous.

If Poulin or Legare make the team out of camp, I think it's more likely they play with Carter.

It makes too much sense to put the rookies with a solid, veteran two-way center.

 

[Tender Rip]

That's ridiculous.

If Poulin or Legare make the team out of camp, I think it's more likely they play with Carter.

It makes too much sense to put the rookies with a solid, veteran two-way center.

Well, in my more recent post I suggested Zohorna Gaudreau Angello and that Poulin would be a call-up.
In any event I don't think it is all that weird, far less ridiculous, to suggest that the young players will start in the bottom 6 if they start with the team. Most unproven guys. Guentzel was a special case and had been scoring for fun with WBS and Sully knew him well
With Malkin out, Carter will center the second line.

 

[Jesse]

I spent a lot of this weekend catching up on Filip Hållander. Boy, did this kid learn how to shoot out of nowhere. Pretty clear he invested his time off from knee injury in improving that aspect of his game. His shot was sort of forgettable prior to last year, but he scored some absolutely beautiful wristers for Lulea, in addition to continuing to be an absolute terror in front of the net.

He is Patric Hornqvist with more offensive skill and less of that bats**** crazy element that Hornqvist had. Arguably could be as effective in front of the net by virtue of size alone.

One piece of evidence to back up my point about his shot. Lulea took him from his traditional spot in the low slot/net front on the power-play and shifted him to the half-wall. He started scoring a ton of one-timer goals off of cross-ice passes. Says a lot that they thought the net-front specialist was better served being a trigger-man on the power-play.

I tweeted about a four minute montage if anyone is interested.

 

[The Old Master]

I spent a lot of this weekend catching up on Filip Hållander. Boy, did this kid learn how to shoot out of nowhere. Pretty clear he invested his time off from knee injury in improving that aspect of his game. His shot was sort of forgettable prior to last year, but he scored some absolutely beautiful wristers for Lulea, in addition to continuing to be an absolute terror in front of the net.

He is Patric Hornqvist with more offensive skill and less of that bats**** crazy element that Hornqvist had. Arguably could be as effective in front of the net by virtue of size alone.

One piece of evidence to back up my point about his shot. Lulea took him from his traditional spot in the low slot/net front on the power-play and shifted him to the half-wall. He started scoring a ton of one-timer goals off of cross-ice passes. Says a lot that they thought the net-front specialist was better served being a trigger-man on the power-play.

I tweeted about a four minute montage if anyone is interested.

how's his skating?

 

[Jesse]

how's his skating?

Really strong. Doesn't have a really high top end gear, but he won a ton of loose pucks with a first step that was faster than I anticipated and he was quick enough that he could use his base/reach to puck protect extremely well. No concern from me there and no sign of ill from that injury awhile back.

 

[The Old Master]

Really strong. Doesn't have a really high top end gear, but he won a ton of loose pucks with a first step that was faster than I anticipated and he was quick enough that he could use his base/reach to puck protect extremely well. No concern from me there and no sign of ill from that injury awhile back.

that deal is starting to sound better.

 

[HandshakeLine]

@Jesse, do you think he could realistically challenge for a bottom 6 spot in camp?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Incidentally, this reminds me, we didn’t fire any of JR’s scouts, did we? I wonder if we’re going to see a reorganization of the scouting department following the draft or if Hexturke are throwing their weight behind them?

 

[cygnus47]

Don't do this to me Jesse. Don't get me all excited.

 

[Jacob]

Hallander does like going right to the front of the net and is even used there on the PP but, whether it’s the bigger surface or style of game, he’s not really challenged much there. Just not a lot of boxing out or net front scrums. They just let you park in front of the goalie.

He was called one of the better skaters in his draft class so it’s weird to read people question his skating. His speed isn’t always evident because he doesn’t fly around like an idiot and stops and starts a lot. I’d say it’s at least fine if not good.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I spent a lot of this weekend catching up on Filip Hållander. Boy, did this kid learn how to shoot out of nowhere. Pretty clear he invested his time off from knee injury in improving that aspect of his game. His shot was sort of forgettable prior to last year, but he scored some absolutely beautiful wristers for Lulea, in addition to continuing to be an absolute terror in front of the net.

He is Patric Hornqvist with more offensive skill and less of that bats**** crazy element that Hornqvist had. Arguably could be as effective in front of the net by virtue of size alone.

One piece of evidence to back up my point about his shot. Lulea took him from his traditional spot in the low slot/net front on the power-play and shifted him to the half-wall. He started scoring a ton of one-timer goals off of cross-ice passes. Says a lot that they thought the net-front specialist was better served being a trigger-man on the power-play.

I tweeted about a four minute montage if anyone is interested.

A trigger-man from the left circle, yet.

I feel even better about the trade after watching that vid. His release does look much quicker now.