Pittsburgh Penguins own large, young group of prospects at AHL level

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Most of these players came out of one good draft for the Caps - the 2006 draft. One in which the Caps had extra picks, while Shero only had 5, and he was still working with Craig Patrick's scouting staff.

Alzner was drafted 5th overall in 2007, when the Pens didn't have their first pick until 20th. In the 2008 draft, all the players you mentioned were off the board long before the Pens had their first pick (the next-to-last pick of the fourth round). The Caps picked Johansson with the 24th overall pick in 2009... when the Pens had the 30th pick thanks to winning the Stanley Cup.

So the only players in your entire list that Shero and his chosen staff passed over are Orlov and Kuznetsov. And they only could have taken Orlov if they'd used a first round pick on him, since their second rounder was the 61st overall pick.

In other words, Washington has gotten higher quality draft picks out of drafting earlier in the draft than the Pens have. Wow, what a surprise.

He's not saying the Penguins should've taken those players, he's saying they should be finding more players in the draft. It doesn't have to be those ones. "They don't ask how, they ask how many." Yeah they were short a pick or two some years. We're not asking for miracles just find a guy or two.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

let's not act like Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot and Bennett aren't sure things at this point. It might take them a few years, but they are 100% going to be full time NHLer's, be it for this team, or another.

Care to make a friendly wager? There are hundreds of guys that showed promise at levels below the NHL that just couldn't cut it. I'm not even going to break down each guy because it's just not worth it. Everyone thinks their team's guys are special from other teams' guys. Never ceases to amaze me. Despres is the only guy I think it's safe to say is the real deal, at least right this second.

 

[wgknestrick]

He's not saying the Penguins should've taken those players, he's saying they should be finding more players in the draft. It doesn't have to be those ones. "They don't ask how, they ask how many." Yeah they were short a pick or two some years. We're not asking for miracles just find a guy or two.

Exactly...I am comparing 9 players to 2. Yes, the Caps have had slightly better draft positions that the Pens, but it isn't a landslide like the results are.

I was only using the Caps as an example to the post that the Pens drafting results were "normal" or "to be expected". We are starting to look like SJS in our drafting (not a good thing). This is going to be a growing concern as our core gets older and less productive.

 

[Freeptop]

He's not saying the Penguins should've taken those players, he's saying they should be finding more players in the draft. It doesn't have to be those ones. "They don't ask how, they ask how many." Yeah they were short a pick or two some years. We're not asking for miracles just find a guy or two.

Actually, he did say the Pens should've taken those players, which is what I was primarily addressing:

Shero had a chance to draft a lot of these players, but we should only expect 2 NHLers out of 44 picks? WSH was able to net about 8-9 NHL caliber players.

That said, is it really surprising that the Caps netted more NHL players when they were both picking higher, and more often? Isn't that what one would call the expected result?

You should also consider that of those 9 picks, 5 of them were first round picks. That's over half. In the same time period as those 5 were picked, the Pens had a grand total of 3 first round picks - Staal, Esposito (traded for Hossa), and Despres.

The Pens have been giving up a bunch of early round picks while the Caps have been acquiring them. The Pens have won the Cup. The Caps have graduated more prospects. Again, this isn't a surprising result.

 

[mrzeigler]

For the past three years, I've thought "this is going to be a 'make it or break it' year for Veilleux,'" and each of those years he's opted for "break it." It's truly remarkable that his age is only 23. Feels like he's been in the system for a decade. One of the drawbacks of being a tall Frenchy whose name ends with "-eux" in this organization is that people lock onto you right away.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Not all of our picks were traded away for rental players. We lost a 3rd round pick to be exclusively declined by Hamhuis. Some people rationalize that since we eventually "got that pick back", but that's not really true. We are still down a 3rd round pick regardless of what some unrelated trade happened to bring us.

That trade for Leopold was terrible. He was exactly what we didn't need at that time - another PMD in a lineup full of them. Between that and swinging for the fences with someone as unnecessary and overpriced like Parise, some of Shero's moves just come across as desperate.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Not all of our picks were traded away for rental players. We lost a 3rd round pick to be exclusively declined by Hamhuis. Some people rationalize that since we eventually "got that pick back", but that's not really true. We are still down a 3rd round pick regardless of what some unrelated trade happened to bring us.

That trade for Leopold was terrible. He was exactly what we didn't need at that time - another PMD in a lineup full of them. Between that and swinging for the fences with someone as unnecessary and overpriced like Parise, some of Shero's moves just come across as desperate.

While I think they should be coming up with a couple more guys through drafting I don't necessarily agree with this. People need to get over the 3rd rounder. It happened, Hamhuis did not want, it's a frickin 3rd round pick. Life will go on. It was worth the chance IMO. No you shouldn't do it every year but he was an above average two-way guy that went on to be something like +30 the next year in VAN. I'll take a chance on that.

It's been awhile but I don't remember what was so terrible about Leopold when he was here. I thought he was fine until he got assassinated. As for Parise, what is desperate about wanting to cement the best top 6 in the league by far by adding a really good player? What's desperate about trying to buck the odds on a chance at the Cup? Nothing I say.

 

[Milliardo]

Yeah I don't get it either. People hat on Shero for being too conservative and for swinging for the fencens, which one is it?

 

[limite*]

Actually, he did say the Pens should've taken those players, which is what I was primarily addressing:


That said, is it really surprising that the Caps netted more NHL players when they were both picking higher, and more often? Isn't that what one would call the expected result?

You should also consider that of those 9 picks, 5 of them were first round picks. That's over half. In the same time period as those 5 were picked, the Pens had a grand total of 3 first round picks - Staal, Esposito (traded for Hossa), and Despres.

The Pens have been giving up a bunch of early round picks while the Caps have been acquiring them. The Pens have won the Cup. The Caps have graduated more prospects. Again, this isn't a surprising result.

You miss the obvious question. Why did the Caps have so many high picks? It's because they had depth through good drafting. They could afford to trade Varlamov for a #11 and a second rounder because they picked Neuvirth in the second and Holtby in the fourth. It also helps when you don't help you don't trade away and entire draft class (2008) and give away players like Muzzin and Moulson.