Pittsburgh Penguins own large, young group of prospects at AHL level

[HF Article]

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Like many teams in the AHL, the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins are beneficiaries of the ongoing NHL lockout, with several players who would normally be competing for a job in the NHL instead playing in the minors. Despite this flux of NHL caliber talent, the team has struggled all season, particularly on offense, where they rank among the bottom in the league.



While there are several reasons why the Pittsburgh Penguins' AHL affiliate has struggled to produce offense, the biggest is simply a lack of chemistry. The team welcomed a lot of new faces to the team, including eight young prospects, and six AHL veterans.… read more



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[Riptide]

Disappointed that Dumoulin and Morrow aren't doing too hot. But happy that Despres and Bort are doing well - both of whom I'm hoping to see regularly in Pittsburgh.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Nice article. Looks like a lot of the 'name' players have something to prove going forward.

 

[wgknestrick]

Nice article. Looks like a lot of the 'name' players have something to prove going forward.

Staal still looking like the only regular NHLer Shero has drafted in 6 years / 44 picks to date.

I hope to be proven wrong some day about that statement.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Staal still looking like the only regular NHLer Shero has drafted in 6 years / 44 picks to date.

I hope to be proven wrong some day about that statement.

Bennett seems to be doing pretty well for an AHL rookie. Never say never, as the "Biebs" would say.



I'm so ashamed of myself right now.

 

[M0NTY26]

Staal still looking like the only regular NHLer Shero has drafted in 6 years / 44 picks to date.

I hope to be proven wrong some day about that statement.

I'm sure you'd be surprised by the number of picks that turned into regular NHLer's over the last six seasons, drafted by a team that's made the playoffs every year, and has gone to the finals twice.

Staal and Jeffrey have definitely been his most successful picks to date, but let's not act like Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot and Bennett aren't sure things at this point. It might take them a few years, but they are 100% going to be full time NHLer's, be it for this team, or another. Finishing in the bottom end of a draft, then expecting these late 1st rounders to establish themselves onto a team like ours within 6 years is silly, isn't it?

If this team was built like it was when Geno, Sid, Tanger, and Flower were drafted, you can be sure that guys like the ones mentioned above would be playing in the NHL.

 

[#66]

I'm not sure what to think. It seems like WB started off hot, then we hear reports of how Disco worked out some adjustments to the system at the AHL level and then the Baby Pens haven't been the same for the past 25 games or so.

 

[Solution]

I'm not sure what to think. It seems like WB started off hot, then we hear reports of how Disco worked out some adjustments to the system at the AHL level and then the Baby Pens haven't been the same for the past 25 games or so.

WBS did not start off hot. they went four games before winning their first game. I think that it took them a month to get to even on the season. Then they went n a bit of a tear. I think the young team seems to be the issue especially with so much NHL talent in the league.

 

[wgknestrick]

I'm sure you'd be surprised by the number of picks that turned into regular NHLer's over the last six seasons, drafted by a team that's made the playoffs every year, and has gone to the finals twice.

Staal and Jeffrey have definitely been his most successful picks to date, but let's not act like Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot and Bennett aren't sure things at this point. It might take them a few years, but they are 100% going to be full time NHLer's, be it for this team, or another. Finishing in the bottom end of a draft, then expecting these late 1st rounders to establish themselves onto a team like ours within 6 years is silly, isn't it?

If this team was built like it was when Geno, Sid, Tanger, and Flower were drafted, you can be sure that guys like the ones mentioned above would be playing in the NHL.

Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot and Bennett

Are not sure things. Hopefully they turn into full time NHLers. They become "sure things" when they make an NHL roster. Not a day before that. 3/5 is about what I expect.

WSH has been finishing about where the Pens have been since 2006 on average. Lets look at who they drafted....and the quality of players.

Nicklas Backstrom
Semyon Varlamov
Michal Neuvirth
Perreault
Alzner
John Carlson
Braden Holtby
Orlov
Marcus Johansson

Evgeny Kuznetsov (would be a great NHLer if he came over)

Shero had a chance to draft a lot of these players, but we should only expect 2 NHLers out of 44 picks? WSH was able to net about 8-9 NHL caliber players.

 

[Steve Durbano]

I'm sure you'd be surprised by the number of picks that turned into regular NHLer's over the last six seasons, drafted by a team that's made the playoffs every year, and has gone to the finals twice.

Staal and Jeffrey have definitely been his most successful picks to date, but let's not act like Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot and Bennett aren't sure things at this point. It might take them a few years, but they are 100% going to be full time NHLer's, be it for this team, or another. Finishing in the bottom end of a draft, then expecting these late 1st rounders to establish themselves onto a team like ours within 6 years is silly, isn't it?

If this team was built like it was when Geno, Sid, Tanger, and Flower were drafted, you can be sure that guys like the ones mentioned above would be playing in the NHL.

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FATAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Thank God those days are over.

 

[Burgs]

Given that it is now January I'm not sure we can blame the Baby Pens' troubles mostly on chemistry. They haven't played well offensively all season long, and their one good stretch came when Zatkoff played out of his mind to win AHL Goalie of the Month in November. We should be seeing at least some kind of progress by now.

Maybe there's some kind of flu epidemic going on in WBS. But I'm afraid the main problem here is our organization's inability (maybe even unwillingness) to identify and develop skilled forwards who can't grind *****es down all that well but have some actual creativity instead. Bylsma and Hynes are on the same wavelength in that regard, and that's how it should be between parent club and farm team. But sometimes I wonder if this philosophy is now doing more harm than good for our future.

Bennett is the one skill guy they recently spent a high pick on, and surprise surprise he's the one guy actually looking talented offensively. But at least for the first time in years we got some other guyscoming up. Hanowski and Kühnhackl (if he ever stays healthy) should help next season, and we have some interesting kids in the NCAA. But for this season it looks grim. That the veterans don't play well and the East Division is probably the most competitive in the league doesn't help either.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Bennett is the one skill guy they recently spent a high pick on, and surprise surprise he's the one guy actually looking talented offensively. But at least for the first time in years we got some other guyscoming up. Hanowski and Kühnhackl (if he ever stays healthy) should help next season, and we have some interesting kids in the NCAA. But for this season it looks grim. That the veterans don't play well and the East Division is probably the most competitive in the league doesn't help either.

Well they are trying to change Bennett's game too. I remember reading recently that they want him to be a more of a north and south type player instead of slowing the game down like his style of game is now. I just hope he doesn't get screwed up in his development. Tangradi was a more skilled type player too IIRC, and they are trying to make him into some big oaf that just is good in front of the net. Kennedy was a skilled forward that was a pass first player, and look what happened to him.

They apparently are also breaking Morrow's game down and building him back up again too. I'm less worried about that because they have a better track record with defensemen though.

You can't just pigeon hole players into a strict system. You have to let them be who they are too. I'm really worried that they are going to try to make guys, like Kuhnhackl or Hanowski for example, into more grinding 3rd line players, instead of letting them try to develop into somebody who's more offensively creative.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Disappointed that Dumoulin and Morrow aren't doing too hot. But happy that Despres and Bort are doing well - both of whom I'm hoping to see regularly in Pittsburgh.

From reading the WBS thread, I'd thought it was the opposite, that Dumoulin was doing well while Despres struggled.

 

[MrBurghundy]

From reading the WBS thread, I'd thought it was the opposite, that Dumoulin was doing well while Despres struggled.

Yeah I'm actually pretty sure this is the case and not what was written.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot and Bennett

Are not sure things. Hopefully they turn into full time NHLers. They become "sure things" when they make an NHL roster. Not a day before that. 3/5 is about what I expect.

WSH has been finishing about where the Pens have been since 2006 on average. Lets look at who they drafted....and the quality of players.

Nicklas Backstrom
Semyon Varlamov
Michal Neuvirth
Perreault
Alzner
John Carlson
Braden Holtby
Orlov
Marcus Johansson

Evgeny Kuznetsov (would be a great NHLer if he came over)

Shero had a chance to draft a lot of these players, but we should only expect 2 NHLers out of 44 picks? WSH was able to net about 8-9 NHL caliber players.

You're right in that none of our prospects should be counted as surefire NHLers until they actually become one, but Washington list isn't a good comparable for the exact reason that they have had significantly more and better early round draft picks, particularly early on in that run.

Staal was our only top 5 pick, they had Backstrom and Alzner - that skews things right off the bat. You also neglected to mention the fact that between '06 and '11, the Caps had 7 1st rounders and 8 2nd rounders while the Pens had 5 1sts and 4 2nds, because one was trading futures to stack up for Cup runs and the other was trading established talent for futures, because they stunk.

So let's not do this. The Caps had nearly double the amount of darts to throw at the board, and got to stand two feet away from it for one of their extra turns.

 

[jmelm]

Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot and Bennett

Are not sure things. Hopefully they turn into full time NHLers. They become "sure things" when they make an NHL roster. Not a day before that. 3/5 is about what I expect.

WSH has been finishing about where the Pens have been since 2006 on average. Lets look at who they drafted....and the quality of players.

Nicklas Backstrom
Semyon Varlamov
Michal Neuvirth
Perreault
Alzner
John Carlson
Braden Holtby
Orlov
Marcus Johansson

Evgeny Kuznetsov (would be a great NHLer if he came over)

Shero had a chance to draft a lot of these players, but we should only expect 2 NHLers out of 44 picks? WSH was able to net about 8-9 NHL caliber players.

I agree with the general premise that I said in anothe thread 2 days ago that the Pens would get a grade of "average" at best or "below average" at acquiring NHL talent through the draft. But there are three caveats to remember about this:


1) We, like Detroit, bring our prospects our propects along slowly. Bortuzzo and Strait would be full-time NHLers by now, probably starting last season, on any NHL club; and it's very possible that Bortuzzo would have been full-time on this club last season when he got the call-up if he didn't sustain an inury.


2) We have traded away far too many draft picks for my liking. Whether it's the 2nd rounder that went for Ekman or the 2nd rounder that went for Leopold, we should have been able to get at least one player out of those 2 picks. Then we traded away many others, including our first 3 picks in 2008, and our 3rd + 4th in 2011. This brings me to my next point...


3) Let's not forget: aside from cant-miss top-2 or to-5 picks (Whitney, Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Staal), and a few good late rounders (Kennedy, GoGo & Letang), in general, during the Craig Patrick era, our drafting was also "average" at best or "below average". As they say: "if you're trading away draft picks today (i.e. 2008) to acquire immediate help, it's probably because yoou haven't performed well at the draft". I believe this is true of the Pens during the CP era for the most part. If you look at 2003, for example, to come away with only 1 legit NHLer, with the first overall pick, that is pretty pathetic, especially compared to what a lot of other teams did.


Having said all of that, it is a bit too early to evaluate our performance from 2009 on. Strait & Bortuzzo are NHLers, and the were taken in 2006 and 2007 respectively. Jeffrey looks like an NHLers, and was taken in 2007 (and would likely be a good, full-time NHLer were it not for his injury). It's too early yet to make any judgement calls from 2009/10/11/12. You have to understand that, and it's not fair to mention a guy like Orlov (who sure looks like a future NHLer to me, but technically has done jack in the NHL yet), but go on to say Despres/Morrow/Pouliot/Bennett are not.


Oh, and by the way: Harrington is DAMN WELL a sure-thing. In fact, if we don't acquire a top-4 Dman via trade or free agency between now and the beginning of next season, I think Harrington will look very nice, and perform very well, in our top-4 as soon as next season. He wouldn't look out of place if you inserted him now, in fact. By next season, he'll be more than ready.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well they are trying to change Bennett's game too. I remember reading recently that they want him to be a more of a north and south type player instead of slowing the game down like his style of game is now. I just hope he doesn't get screwed up in his development. Tangradi was a more skilled type player too IIRC, and they are trying to make him into some big oaf that just is good in front of the net. Kennedy was a skilled forward that was a pass first player, and look what happened to him.

Tangradi was not skilled enough to make it on skill alone. He was a good, but unspectacular junior player who put up good, but unspectacular production.

Before we got him, he wasn't ranked as a top 50 prospect on any list I know of. This idea that the Pens took a budding sure-thing and ruined him are misguided - they took a big guy with some talent and got him to round out his game so he could be a useful player even if he didn't make it as a scoring line option.

The truth is that the path to the NHL isn't always as quick and painless as our best players have made it seem...some good prospects take longer than expected, and some never get there.

 

[Zen Arcade]

From reading the WBS thread, I'd thought it was the opposite, that Dumoulin was doing well while Despres struggled.

It is, Dumoulin has been WB/S' best defenseman, Despres has been inconsistent.

 

[Riptide]

From reading the WBS thread, I'd thought it was the opposite, that Dumoulin was doing well while Despres struggled.

Yeah I'm actually pretty sure this is the case and not what was written.

We reading the same thing??

Simon Despres, D, 21

After a strong rookie pro season in 2011-12, Despres dedicated the 2012-13 season to establishing himself as a formidable defensive player. So far he has succeeded in that regard, as he has been one of the few consistent defensemen the Baby Penguins have had along the blue line this season. He has seen time on both special teams and more and more is looking like the all-situation, minute-munching defenseman the Penguins envisioned when they drafted him 30th overall in 2009.

Despres will all but assuredly see some time in the NHL this season, if not right out of training camp

Brian Dumoulin, D, 21

Yet another new face to the Penguins minor-league system, Dumoulin, like the rest of the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins, has had a wildly inconsistent season. He has played mostly in the second or third-pairing defensive units, often paired with Despres, and seen time on the second-unit powerplay. However, he has also been a healthy scratch on several occasions.

Similar to many of the young defensive prospects in the Penguins system, Dumoulin needs to work on his game-to-game consistency. He is at times extremely effective, particularly at retrieving the puck and pushing the play up ice. However, he remains mistake prone, and at times looks flat-footed and out of position.

 

[Darth Vitale]

It's funny reading some of the player descriptions in this article and comparing it to what I've heard WBS fans (who watch games) say on this board. I wonder if they're talking about the same people. To be honest it proves that you can have 10 people watch a guy during the same game and you'll get 3 or 4 different opinions as to how well they played, skate, etc.

The article does suggest what I've believed all along though, and that is Despres is making this lineup at some point this season, probably sooner rather than later, unless he gets moved. You can't keep a good Elmer down.

 

[Zen Arcade]

We reading the same thing??

Yeah, we're disagreeing with the article.

I've watched almost every Baby Pens game this year, Dumoulin has been better than Despres.

 

[bigd]

It is, Dumoulin has been WB/S' best defenseman, Despres has been inconsistent.

Dumoulin has been good but he hasn't been their best defenseman. Bortuzzo has been their best defenseman, without a doubt.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Dumoulin has been good but he hasn't been their best defenseman. Bortuzzo has been their best defenseman, without a doubt.

I mean throughout the whole year, Bortuzzo was hurt and looked a bit off when he returned. Bortuzzo is the best at the moment, though.

 

[M0NTY26]

Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot and Bennett

Are not sure things. Hopefully they turn into full time NHLers. They become "sure things" when they make an NHL roster. Not a day before that. 3/5 is about what I expect.

WSH has been finishing about where the Pens have been since 2006 on average. Lets look at who they drafted....and the quality of players.

Nicklas Backstrom
Semyon Varlamov
Michal Neuvirth
Perreault
Alzner
John Carlson
Braden Holtby
Orlov
Marcus Johansson

Evgeny Kuznetsov (would be a great NHLer if he came over)

Shero had a chance to draft a lot of these players, but we should only expect 2 NHLers out of 44 picks? WSH was able to net about 8-9 NHL caliber players.

The only thing that will stop those kids from becoming full timers is a horrible injury, a lockout that abolishes the NHL entirely, a sudden drug/gambling addiction (although Jags survived the gambling bit lol), or the world ends.

Despres and Morrow both had us thinking they were ready out of camp. Bennet is quite possibly the most talented forward prospect we've ever had grace WBS and Harrington is a beast.

Everyone else said everything else.

 

[Freeptop]

Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot and Bennett

Are not sure things. Hopefully they turn into full time NHLers. They become "sure things" when they make an NHL roster. Not a day before that. 3/5 is about what I expect.

WSH has been finishing about where the Pens have been since 2006 on average. Lets look at who they drafted....and the quality of players.

Nicklas Backstrom Drafted 4th overall [first round] in 2006
Semyon Varlamov Drafted 23rd overall [first round] in 2006
Michal Neuvirth Drafted 34th overall [second round] in 2006
Perreault Drafted 177th overall [sixth round] in 2006
Alzner Drafted 5th overall [first round] in 2007
John Carlson Drafted 27th overall [first round] in 2008
Braden Holtby Drafted 93rd overall [fourth round] in 2008
Orlov Drafted 55th overall [second round] in 2009
Marcus Johansson Drafted 24th overall [first round] in 2009

Evgeny Kuznetsov (would be a great NHLer if he came over) Drafted 26th overall [first round] in 2010

Shero had a chance to draft a lot of these players, but we should only expect 2 NHLers out of 44 picks? WSH was able to net about 8-9 NHL caliber players.

Most of these players came out of one good draft for the Caps - the 2006 draft. One in which the Caps had extra picks, while Shero only had 5, and he was still working with Craig Patrick's scouting staff.

Alzner was drafted 5th overall in 2007, when the Pens didn't have their first pick until 20th. In the 2008 draft, all the players you mentioned were off the board long before the Pens had their first pick (the next-to-last pick of the fourth round). The Caps picked Johansson with the 24th overall pick in 2009... when the Pens had the 30th pick thanks to winning the Stanley Cup.

So the only players in your entire list that Shero and his chosen staff passed over are Orlov and Kuznetsov. And they only could have taken Orlov if they'd used a first round pick on him, since their second rounder was the 61st overall pick.

In other words, Washington has gotten higher quality draft picks out of drafting earlier in the draft than the Pens have. Wow, what a surprise.