Value of: PIT's 2023 1st round pick.

[bigdaddyk88]

They don't use asterisks Junior

It is all good hopefully the new gm forced Sully to actually play the young guys and dumps the over 30 year olds

 

[Mike Jones]

It is all good hopefully the new gm forced Sully to actually play the young guys and dumps the over 30 year olds

There is a way to send a message to the coach. Back in the day MLBs Oakland As had to take drastic measures when their field manager wouldn't play the guys the team wanted in the starting lineup. The GM finally sent a message to the manager when he traded away the manager's favourite player. It's in the movie Moneyball and based on the book of the same name.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

There is a way to send a message to the coach. Back in the day MLBs Oakland As had to take drastic measures when their field manager wouldn't play the guys the team wanted in the starting lineup. The GM finally sent a message to the manager when he traded away the manager's favourite player. It's in the movie Moneyball and based on the book of the same name.

Hopefully that’s exactly what the new gm decides he is going to do.

 

[Extra Texture]

There is a way to send a message to the coach. Back in the day MLBs Oakland As had to take drastic measures when their field manager wouldn't play the guys the team wanted in the starting lineup. The GM finally sent a message to the manager when he traded away the manager's favourite player. It's in the movie Moneyball and based on the book of the same name.

I hate to be that "well, ackshually" guy, but that book/movie bother me and that plot point in particular was a bunch of malarkey. In that 2002 season, Hatteberg was already an every day player from the moment he got to Oakland. Except he was a DH. He was switched to first base, but had already taken over the position, well over a month before Carlos Pena was traded in a pretty standard mid-season baseball trade. Instead the book made Beane as some cowboy GM, who was forcing the hand of his dinosaur Manager (a guy they painted as a greedy jerkoff) so that he would see the light.

That book/movie really stretched the truth to the point of absurdity. The 2002 A's were an awesome team, with a ton of talent and chemistry, but the moneyball stuff just lionized the GM, made a bunch of people that worked with him into stock villains, and omitted some of the biggest reasons they were a great team. The truth is obviously a lot more nuanced, but that doesnt sell books or movie tickets.

 

[Mike Jones]

I hate to be that "well, ackshually" guy, but that book/movie bother me and that plot point in particular was a bunch of malarkey. In that 2002 season, Hatteberg was already an every day player from the moment he got to Oakland. Except he was a DH. He was switched to first base, but had already taken over the position, well over a month before Carlos Pena was traded in a pretty standard mid-season baseball trade. Instead the book made Beane as some cowboy GM, who was forcing the hand of his dinosaur Manager (a guy they painted as a greedy jerkoff) so that he would see the light.

That book/movie really stretched the truth to the point of absurdity. The 2002 A's were an awesome team, with a ton of talent and chemistry, but the moneyball stuff just lionized the GM, made a bunch of people that worked with him into stock villains, and omitted some of the biggest reasons they were a great team. The truth is obviously a lot more nuanced, but that doesnt sell books or movie tickets.

It's still a great thing to do when you have a problem coach playing the wrong guys. Trade the coach's players and force him to either follow the program or leave.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I hate to be that "well, ackshually" guy, but that book/movie bother me and that plot point in particular was a bunch of malarkey. In that 2002 season, Hatteberg was already an every day player from the moment he got to Oakland. Except he was a DH. He was switched to first base, but had already taken over the position, well over a month before Carlos Pena was traded in a pretty standard mid-season baseball trade. Instead the book made Beane as some cowboy GM, who was forcing the hand of his dinosaur Manager (a guy they painted as a greedy jerkoff) so that he would see the light.

That book/movie really stretched the truth to the point of absurdity. The 2002 A's were an awesome team, with a ton of talent and chemistry, but the moneyball stuff just lionized the GM, made a bunch of people that worked with him into stock villains, and omitted some of the biggest reasons they were a great team. The truth is obviously a lot more nuanced, but that doesnt sell books or movie tickets.

Wasn't Pena playing in the minors at the time also? They really did Howe dirty, especially in the movie, since the A's had heavily been following analytics even under Beane's predecessor, Sandy Alderson--and Howe was bought in.

 

[atrud66]

Mike Matheson hasn't been offered in this entire thread?

 

[Gurglesons]

Mike Matheson hasn't been offered in this entire thread?

Matheson was great in PIT, but no need to reacquire him.

 

[Kaibur]

Finally a comment from a non-Pens fan who actually gets our situation.

Pens need a goalie by trade. Not sure our 1st gets us Saros, and that's understandable, but this is the type of return we are shooting for. We'd ideally like a guy somewhere in between Saros (too pricey) and Gibson/Vejmelka (would be welcomed, but we're happy to pay more than what these would cost if the piece is right).

It sounds like the Coyotes are aiming to keep Vejmelka. But he only has 2 more years left before becoming a UFA, and (unless the Coyotes win a lottery) it doesn't look like they will be really competitive in those 2 years. Of course, they could re-sign him next off-season. But if PIT 1st is in the conversation, you've got to think BA would reconsider whether Veggie is really part of the core.

PIT 1st for Vejmelka + NYI '3rd?

 

[Goalie_Bob]

PIT 1st for Vejmelka + ARI 2nd seems like a closer deal. Even then I think that may be too much for Vejmelka. Both of the guys that have played a decent number of games for ARI have a higher sv% than he does the past two seasons. Ingram (26g @ .907%), Wedgewood (26g @ .911%). Veggie is at .899 sv%.

I get he has played abit more games (103) but aren't they playing behind the same team?

 

[Extra Texture]

It's still a great thing to do when you have a problem coach playing the wrong guys. Trade the coach's players and force him to either follow the program or leave.

Well, that part is certainly true. Unfortunately, too many of the dinosaurs on the NHL coaching carousel/boys club are so stuck in their ways about player usage (obsession with their favorite grinders, value nebulous "toughness" over actual quantifiable metrics that show a player is a net negative, etc) that the only way to stop them is to take away their toys.

Mike Sullivan is definitely one such guy. It doesnt matter how bad guys are, or how much their play is hurting the team. If he likes them, they will play. But the difficult part is that the local media are still lining up to laud this guy as some kid of legend when he's now going on 6(!) straight early exits from the post season that almost seem to get earlier and earlier every year.

It's hilarious to see how fast FSG brought the hammer down on Burke and Hextall for the state of the roster, when its abundantly clear that even the world's best GM could load this team up with talent, and we would still see a failing power play, Guentzel/Crosby/Rust as a flailing line, and oodles of Jeff Carter at C.

Wasn't Pena playing in the minors at the time also? They really did Howe dirty, especially in the movie, since the A's had heavily been following analytics even under Beane's predecessor, Sandy Alderson--and Howe was bought in.

I had no idea about the Pena thing, but you're 100% right: It looks like Pena was demoted to AAA ball from mid-May until the trade. So not only was he NOT the "manager's guy" he wasnt even with the team. I'm starting to think "The Natural" is more fact based than this movie.

They definitely did Howe dirty in that story, to the point where I read that Philip Seymour Hoffman felt bad in interviews, and wanted to meet Howe to apologize to him personally to apologize (PSH's death) but he professed that that was the direction he got: to play a moody, selfish jerk. I read too that Howe lamented Jeremy Giambi is painted as some goofball jackass who doesnt care about winning/losing that Beane has to make an example of, when in fact he was more a locker room character or glue guy.

I get that the story has to be dramatic, but it was a disappointment watching that movie. It focused so much on Beane (obviously) and his brilliance with DePodesta in unearthing a few players who were (at best) supporting characters in the season. Meanwhile, Tejada, Chavez and that insane, once-in-a-generation rotation they had, aka all the talent they had which I remember as being the pillars of their turnaround, barely get a mention. Possibly because they were just unearthed by good scouting rather than sabermetrics. Man, that team was freaking gifted. As a Mariners fan, watching them decline while Oakland rose to prominence on a shoestring budget was depressing as hell.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Moving it for either a goaltender or a LD that can play behind or above Pettersson.

Would Calgary be willing to do something around Hanifin + Markstrom for Ty Smith, the 1st, and small cap dump like Ruhwedel or Friedman?

Would Nashville or Winnipeg move Helle or Saros for a package involving it?

Makes sense, we know whomever the new GM takes will be someone Sullivan won't bother playing when he's ready, anyway.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Nashville isn't trading Saros unless the return is so bonkers that they can't say no.

 

[DevilsHughes86]

Blackwood is an RFA, we can work something out...

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Blackwood is an RFA, we can work something out...

Nobody is going to work something out for Blackwood. He won’t be qualified and will be a UFA on July 1st.

 

[DesertPenguin]

With retention at around $3m he'd be useful either replacing Zucker or more likely replacing Carter as the 3C

I wonder if Carter would waive to go home to LA (Anaheim) for a victory lap. If we could somehow add Gibson and Henrique, while dumping Carter, I'd empty the clip on picks and prospects to Anaheim.

Guentzel - Crosby - Rakell
Zucker(signed) - Malkin - Granlund
O'Connor - Henrique - Rust
UFA LW - Poehling - Archibald(signed)

Pettersson - Letang
POJ - Petry
Smith - Ruuta
Ruhwedel

Gibson
DeSmith

That could be OK

 

[Dead Coyote]

Would happily trade Vejmelka for that 1st, though some might say he's worth more and some might say he's worth less. Would also toss in one of our many LD tweeners if you can convince me of the latter.

PIT 1st for Vejmelka + NYI '3rd?

I'd do it.