Tribute Pierre Dorion appreciation thread

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[BondraTime]

This is all I could find on the bolded...

I don't know what the confusion would be. He was informed by both DJ and Dorion that he was being placed on waivers, they changed goalie coaches for him earlier in the year and he was 0-5-0 with 0.890 sv% and 3.26gaa when they made the decision.

Again, I'm happy to change my mind on whether Dorion exhibited a pattern of malicious conduct towards co-workers and subordinates but if this is supposed to be a good example of his mistreatment of players, I can't really agree with that assessment.

https://x.com/mikemckenna56/status/1719791658055647373?s=46&t=y8vsY9WYkwJsRBsRg5xY6w

https://x.com/mikemckenna56/status/1719851594018070770?s=46&t=y8vsY9WYkwJsRBsRg5xY6w

He definitely wasn’t a fan of Pierre or how he ran things.

He gave an interview somewhere and he was pretty forthcoming about how poorly ran Ottawa was.

Like you said, I think Murray's was stuff from interviews where he was pretty clearly upset about how things were handled, there is no Del Zotto/McKenna/whomever situations where potshots are being taken on twitter or social media

 

[Micklebot]

This is all I could find on the bolded...

I don't know what the confusion would be. He was informed by both DJ and Dorion that he was being placed on waivers, they changed goalie coaches for him earlier in the year and he was 0-5-0 with 0.890 sv% and 3.26gaa when they made the decision.

Again, I'm happy to change my mind on whether Dorion exhibited a pattern of malicious conduct towards co-workers and subordinates but if this is supposed to be a good example of his mistreatment of players, I can't really agree with that assessment.

Athletic article goes into a bit more detail, hard to get the tone from quotes, but Mendes seems to imply he was frustrated with how it was handled in the article and talks about the context of the situation, coming off Covid, decision made on the road rather than waiting till their back at home.

Matt Murray opens up about shocking AHL demotion: "It hasn't really been communicated to me what the plan is"

Matt Murray said he isn't sure how long his stint in the minor leagues could last.

theathletic.com

 

[SPF6ty9]

You can have a debate about the work. There's bad, but also good. The team, with the roster they have, is not in a terrible spot.

But the person is bad. When people talk about rotten culture in hockey, Dorion deserves to be in the group with Babcock.

He goes out of the way to make others who work with him feel bad about themselves and like they don't belong. Instead of trying to lift people up, he breaks them down.

I agree about him. I've ran into a few people that remind me of Dorion. You feel sorry for them and want to be nice to them, but then they end up being a jerk when you try to be friendly and it's easy to understand why they're not well liked. They bring it on themselves.

Seems like he wanted to be accepted by people who didn't respect him, and wanted to tear down anyone who was below him. This guy should never have been in a position of leadership. It gave him a bad reputation, this organization a bad reputation, and cost us a 1st round pick.

When DJ is fired, I'll feel bad for the person. Not Dorion though. I'm sure he's made some nice bank these past 8 years anyways. Don't let the door hit you on the way out Pierre.

 

[Cosmix]

The contracts with the young core are great, but the 1st rounder is going to leave a sour taste for a long time.

There were at least 2 First Rounders, and others, that I would criticize under Dorion.

There’s not going to be a lot i opportunities for PD to find work again in the NHL, his agent has his work cutout for himself.

I think his agent will drop him.

 

[Cosmix]

Looking at the roster, he got some (a lot?) of the big things right. But he got most of the little things wrong over the years. Beats the opposite, I guess. Lock in the wrong core and you're dead, for a long while. Get the right core and mess up the periphery, you can still be good. Of course we don't actually know if the core is good yet.

Zibanejad and a 2nd round pick for Brassard was a "little thing"! Nope. I could add a few others. I am Glad Dorion is finally gone.

 

[Cosmix]

That's not amateur scouting.

Agreed. It is bad GM management.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

https://x.com/mikemckenna56/status/1719791658055647373?s=46&t=y8vsY9WYkwJsRBsRg5xY6w

https://x.com/mikemckenna56/status/1719851594018070770?s=46&t=y8vsY9WYkwJsRBsRg5xY6w

He definitely wasn’t a fan of Pierre or how he ran things.

He gave an interview somewhere and he was pretty forthcoming about how poorly ran Ottawa was.

Like you said, I think Murray's was stuff from interviews where he was pretty clearly upset about how things were handled, there is no Del Zotto/McKenna/whomever situations where potshots are being taken on twitter or social media

I think that interview was on WAM (wally & methot) ; not the one he did this year I think it was the first time he was on that "show"

43:00 minute mark

 

[Cosmix]

I am happy Dorion is gone and looking forward to Staios taking over on an interim basis before signing a new GM. Hopefully he makes a good choice (experienced, successful, open-minded, good communicator).

I think the new GM will have the responsibility to search for and hire a new Head Coach and coaching staff.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Athletic article goes into a bit more detail, hard to get the tone from quotes, but Mendes seems to imply he was frustrated with how it was handled in the article and talks about the context of the situation, coming off Covid, decision made on the road rather than waiting till their back at home.

Matt Murray opens up about shocking AHL demotion: "It hasn't really been communicated to me what the plan is"

Matt Murray said he isn't sure how long his stint in the minor leagues could last.

theathletic.com

A guy making $6M+ was frustrated to be sent down...more on this story as it develops.

If it's an example you're providing for how players were mistreated by Dorion, it's not a very good one. I'm ready to see concrete examples of his behaviour and I'm open to changing my mind about this. Following the proper procedure to send a guy down to the AHL does not even remotely move the needle whether he felt personally offended or not.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Zibanejad was going to be traded after his RFA years anyways. It is very clear that they were going to rebuild because the budget was going to make it impossible to keep any of the stars that they developed. The whole story is that Dorion pitched Melnyk a rebuild after the 2017 regular season collapse, which might be true, but I think prior to that it was known that the team would have to rebuild because it's basic math. All their moves point to trying to win before Stone, Karlsson, and others hit free agency.

After Bobby Ryan, they didn't sign any big contracts that would buy up UFA years. Anderson, Methot, and Smith were the longest and most consequential contracts they signed. I guess you could include Hoffman, but the dynamic there was different even know it did buy up some UFA years.

All those contracts were still very straight forward mid-term deals, and weren't signed at superstar money or terms. It's pretty obvious that if they kept Zibanejad, they were going to harvest his RFA years and then trade him for futures. With that in mind, Brassard for Zibanejad worked out about as well as it could because I don't think Zibanejad over Brassard in 2017 makes a big difference, he had yet to break out as a superstar, and I don't think the return for Zibanejad would have been better than what the Senators got for Brassard. Look at what they got for Duchene, who was on pace for almost 100 points. Zibanejad didn't break out until years after they trade, they would have received a 1st and 1-2 B/C type prospects.

That isn't exactly a defense of the trade, but I can see why they made it. The perception of Brassard at the time was that he was a strong playoff performer, both players had the same amount of team control left, and Brassard was going to be cheaper over those 3 years. People judge the trade the wrong way because they don't give a fair assessment of what the playing field under Melnyk was. If you love asset management, you should love the Zib for Brassard trade because that was pure asset management (similar player on the ice for the first 2 years, gain salary space as an asset, get a better package when flipping the player down the line).

Remember, Sakic wouldn't even take Zibanejad and Chabot for Duchene. He didn't have a ton of value league wide at the time.

 

[BankStreetParade]

https://x.com/mikemckenna56/status/1719791658055647373?s=46&t=y8vsY9WYkwJsRBsRg5xY6w

https://x.com/mikemckenna56/status/1719851594018070770?s=46&t=y8vsY9WYkwJsRBsRg5xY6w

He definitely wasn’t a fan of Pierre or how he ran things.

He gave an interview somewhere and he was pretty forthcoming about how poorly ran Ottawa was.

Like you said, I think Murray's was stuff from interviews where he was pretty clearly upset about how things were handled, there is no Del Zotto/McKenna/whomever situations where potshots are being taken on twitter or social media

Ok that first link is just him restating the thesis of this whole argument and I never disagreed that the culture around the organization wasn't good. I've said that Melnyk was the most directly responsible for a multitude of reasons and I can't keep restating the same points over and over again with every post.

And, sure, I guess he's maybe got a point on the second one? But guys find out they're traded on social media all the time, it's not really that indicative of maliciousness or mistreatment. Is it courteous to personally notify them? Sure. But we're talking about a minor leaguer. A guy who had a cup of coffee at the NHL level. Do you think it's the normal course of action for GMs to personally speak with every minor leaguer who's part of a transaction? Come on.

Give me something interesting that's not Simpson's fabulous tales or this barely lukewarm critique.

When Melnyk passed, they wrote stories about him screaming at employees, discriminating, creating a hostile work environment, etc. I can 100% endorse that criticism as valid. No f***ing questions.

I guess I'll have to wait to hear vetted stories so I can make this determination.

 

[Micklebot]

A guy making $6M+ was frustrated to be sent down...more on this story as it develops.

If it's an example you're providing for how players were mistreated by Dorion, it's not a very good one. I'm ready to see concrete examples of his behaviour and I'm open to changing my mind about this. Following the proper procedure to send a guy down to the AHL does not even remotely move the needle whether he felt personally offended or not.

So, six games in, coming off losing 10 pounds to Covid, plays one game after having only one practice and waived on the road with no explanation provided, or indication of the plan going for is perfectly fine treatment for your starting goalie?

I guess you'd have been fine had we waived Korpisalo before the Pens game? Not told him why, or what he needed to do to get back to form?

Idk man, I don't treat people who work for me like that. I hope you don't either.

 

[BankStreetParade]

So, six games in, coming off losing 10 pounds to Covid, plays one game after having only one practice and waived on the road with no explanation provided, or indication of the plan going for is perfectly fine treatment for your starting goalie?

I guess you'd have been fine had we waived Korpisalo before the Pens game? Not told him why, or what he needed to do to get back to form?

Idk man, I don't treat people who work for me like that. I hope you don't either.

Six games into what? They were 4-13-1 at that point and he was personally 0-5-0. They were on the road for 2 more games and he totally shit the bed against San Jose, which prompted the waivers move. Both DJ and Dorion spoke to him about going on waivers and getting sent down to Belleville. Earlier in the year, they had replaced the goalie coach with someone more familiar to him. The description you're providing for a player's mistreatment is honestly hilariously bad. They gave him so many f***ing opportunities to turn his game around but sending him down to Belleville without some sort of 20-page plan is the real indictment here. What????

 

[Icelevel]

Stuhtzel

 

[Micklebot]

Six games into what? They were 4-13-1 at that point and he was personally 0-5-0. They were on the road for 2 more games and he totally shit the bed against San Jose, which prompted the waivers move. Both DJ and Dorion spoke to him about going on waivers and getting sent down to Belleville. Earlier in the year, they had replaced the goalie coach with someone more familiar to him. The description you're providing for a player's mistreatment is honestly hilariously bad. They gave him so many f***ing opportunities to turn his game around but sending him down to Belleville without some sort of 20-page plan is the real indictment here. What????

6 games into his season. Had you read the article it kind of went over it

His first two games were actually strong, but Kreider nailed him in the head with 5 mins to go in game two knocking him out, he'd only allowed one goal that game (on the same play he got hurt). He then came back from injury and admittedly wasn't good the next two. His third game Was 33 save effort with .917 sv% but another loss. He then caught Covid and lost 10 pounds, had one practice before playing again and lost.

the deception I provided was the one that was reported, it's not normal treatment of your starting goalie, particularly one that had some poor luck with health that year. if you can't see that it says far more about you than I.

 

[branch]

I hear Car-On Auto Sales is thinking of extending Pierre a 5 year contract offer for 36k per year base + 10% commission on all pre-owned vehicle sales

 

[BondraTime]

Bobby with a pretty diplomatic answer.

 

[Micklebot]

Bobby with a pretty diplomatic answer.

Ya, you could tell he didn't really want to pile on while still trying to be honest.

 

[BankStreetParade]

6 games into his season. Had you read the article it kind of went over it

His first two games were actually strong, but Kreider nailed him in the head with 5 mins to go in game two knocking him out, he'd only allowed one goal that game (on the same play he got hurt). He then came back from injury and admittedly wasn't good the next two. His third game Was 33 save effort with .917 sv% but another loss. He then caught Covid and lost 10 pounds, had one practice before playing again and lost.

the deception I provided was the one that was reported, it's not normal treatment of your starting goalie, particularly one that had some poor luck with health that year. if you can't see that it says far more about you than I.

He was 0-5. Winless. Terrible numbers. His own quote said he wasn't playing well enough to win. And even by your own description of the chain of events, he was no longer the #1 goalie except by salary. Out injured. Out with Covid. Started only 6 of the first 18. Are those starting goalie figures to you? The year before, they fired the goalie coach and brought in someone hand-picked just for him.

But sure, this is clearly the sign of mistreatment of a player. I know, what they should have done was ask him if they could send him down to Belleville and let him pick which day he would be waived and beg for forgiveness for making him lose every f***ing game he started.

You have this really horrible habit of taking a position and then pretending that you're presenting some unimpeachable neutral retelling of the events and never accepting any other version. I'm very willing to believe the story that Dorion was a terrible person to work for, be around, work with, mistreated people and players, etc. But the story you're trying to sell as an example of that is laughable.

Even though it's Simmer, I actually find the story where he called McGuire "the rat" to be a lot more believable as an indication of his mistreatment of people than whatever it is you're trying to make me believe.

 

[Micklebot]

He was 0-5. Winless. Terrible numbers. His own quote said he wasn't playing well enough to win. And even by your own description of the chain of events, he was no longer the #1 goalie except by salary. Out injured. Out with Covid. Started only 6 of the first 18. Are those starting goalie figures to you? The year before, they fired the goalie coach and brought in someone hand-picked just for him.

But sure, this is clearly the sign of mistreatment of a player. I know, what they should have done was ask him if they could send him down to Belleville and let him pick which day he would be waived and beg for forgiveness for making him lose every f***ing game he started.

You have this really horrible habit of taking a position and then pretending that you're presenting some unimpeachable neutral retelling of the events and never accepting any other version. I'm very willing to believe the story that Dorion was a terrible person to work for, be around, work with, mistreated people and players, etc. But the story you're trying to sell as an example of that is laughable.

Even though it's Simmer, I actually find the story where he called McGuire "the rat" to be a lot more believable as an indication of his mistreatment of people than whatever it is you're trying to make me believe.

Lol, I have a horrible habit?

You seem to have the habit of denying anything that looks bad on the team, like every single time. Then you have the audacity to claim it's all about others seeking out negativity, never once considering maybe, just maybe, you're the one not looking at things objectively.

Trying taking a look in the mirror before accusing others of pretending their version of events is unimpeachable. I stated what was in the article, that's all. I'm not making things up, just stating the facts as they were presented in the media. This isn't a common thing for the staring goalie to get waived after his 6th game in a season. It's not a common thing to see a player say they have no idea why they were waived or never told what the plan was.

I mean, I shouldn't be surprised, this is your MO, it's the same thing every time, something comes out that paints the team or management in a poor light, you're there to white knight them and accuse people of spinning things to be negative.

 

[swiftwin]

Bobby with a pretty diplomatic answer.

Sounds about right.

Bright hockey mind, but really awkward person. It showed in his interviews.

 

[Micklebot]

Sounds about right.

Bright hockey mind, but really awkward person. It showed in his interviews.

Idk, I think when Ryan says he didn't dislike Dorion but he didn't like playing for him as a gm, it wasn't because he was awkward...

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Idk, I think when Ryan says he didn't dislike Dorion but he didn't like playing for him as a gm, it wasn't because he was awkward...

Certainly raises flags in general and is not exactly an endorsement of him.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Lol, I have a horrible habit?

You seem to have the habit of denying anything that looks bad on the team, like every single time. Then you have the audacity to claim it's all about others seeking out negativity, never once considering maybe, just maybe, you're the one not looking at things objectively.

Trying taking a look in the mirror before accusing others of pretending their version of events is unimpeachable. I stated what was in the article, that's all. I'm not making things up, just stating the facts as they were presented in the media. This isn't a common thing for the staring goalie to get waived after his 6th game in a season. It's not a common thing to see a player say they have no idea why they were waived or never told what the plan was.

I mean, I shouldn't be surprised, this is your MO, it's the same thing every time, something comes out that paints the team or management in a poor light, you're there to white knight them and accuse people of spinning things to be negative.

"same thing every time"...get the f*** outta here. Just stating the facts? You know what's as uncommon as waiving your starting goalie? Playing so f***ing bad that they have to be waived. You know what's uncommon as a starting goalie? Winning 15 of 35 starts in your career with the team. You know what's uncommon as a starting goalie? Appearing in only 47 games over the course of 2 seasons with the team. Those things are just as f***ing uncommon as getting waived almost 20 games into your season.

It's honestly unconscionable the lengths you guys will go to make every single thing that happens be the fault of the organization. You could just as easily settle on many or most. But that's never been good enough. EVERY SINGLE THING needs to be the fault of 1 person no matter what the circumstances say.

I feel good about my thoughts on this subject. Don't expect anymore replies to your garbage takes.